Alexander Litvinenko

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Alexander Litvinenko

Postby AnthonyByakko » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:14 am

The former Russian spy turned dissident died yesterday, after agonizing in a London hospital for weeks since being poisoned by what has been declared Polonium-210, a very rare, radioactive material only capable of being obtained in a high-tech nuclear facility. At first, it was thought that Litvinenko, who deteriorated quickly, was poisoned with the heavy metal Thallium, but traces of radioactivity not only in his body, but in his home and at the resturaunt he was poisoned at, changed the diagnoses. Polonium-210 in the amount Litivinenko had been given, "...would have to be manmade, perhaps from a particle accelerator or a nuclear reactor," according to Professor Dudley Goodhead, a radiation expert at the Medical Research Council. "This seems to have been a substance carefully chosen for its ability to be hard to detect," said Dr. Philip Walker, a physics professor at the University of Surrey. The former Soviet Union reportedly used polonium in its space program in the 1970s.
Polonium is so exceedingly rare that only about 100 grams is believed to be produced each year, said Dr. Mike Keir, a radiation protection adviser at Royal Victoria Infirmary.

British officials were forced to call a meeting of Cobra, their civil emergency organization, to assess the threat to the public by radioactive residue. They declared that while their was no public health risk, the death of Litvinenko was "unprecendented" in Britain and others said it had "all the hallmarks of a state-sponsored assassination." Litvinenko was a fierce critic of Putin, who is also a former agent of the Russian Federal Security Bureau, the modern equivalent of the KGB. Litvnenko left the FSB in 1998 after accusing his superiors of ordering him to assassinate Boris Berezovsky, a Russian billionaire and another opponent of Putin, in addition to covering up evidence that the spy agency had instigated a bombing of apartment buildings to incite the second Chechen war. After spending months in a Russian jail, he fled to Britain upon his release. When he was poisoned, Litvinenko was meeting contacts to try and investigate the asassination of yet another Putin dissident and personal friend, Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who was sick with poison as well, but was finished off in her Moscow apartment by a gunman. They also discussed a "hit list" purportedly containing the names of Russian dissidents abroad that the Kremlin wanted to see dead - a list which allegedly including Litvinenko.

Putin was so haughty as to suggest that the death of Litivinenko wasn't "unnatural" and "not violent" and claimed that any attempt by British agencies or Scotland Yard to press Moscow on the matter would be "outrageous." But the British did just that, formally asking the Kremlin for any and all documents possibly related to Alexander's death, as he had recently become a British citizen. The professional assassination of a British citizen by foreign agents using a radioactive material is a serious issue; the "barbaric" nature of Putin (as friends and entourage of Litvinenko have described it) seems on full display, and the former spy-turned-President of post-Cold War Russia, who has been sliding the nation towards ever more authoritarian rule with nationalized industries and the stifling of dissent, has gone so far as to prevent Russian news outlets from reporting the poisoning to the Russian people. Most people in Russia, according to international news agencies, are unaware of the situation entirely.

So; was Litvinenko assassinated? If so, did the orders truly come from the top, from Putin himself? I posit that the answer to both questions is a resounding and indignant "yes."
Alexander Litvinenko's deathbed address to Putin:
“You may succeed in silencing me, but that silence comes at a price. You have shown yourself to be as barbaric and ruthless as your most hostile critics have claimed. You have shown yourself to have no respect for life, liberty or any civilized value. May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people.”
Last edited by AnthonyByakko on Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby hive_king » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:32 am

Do you think there's any country out there that wouldn't try to kill a turncoat spy?
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Postby AnthonyByakko » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:38 am

I would hope so.

But this was more than just a turncoat spy, someone who abandoned his government. This was a man who was actively seeking evidence of that government's criminal activities, and who according to colleagues, was getting closer and closer to not only finding it, but revealing it to the world. If the truth came out that Putin ordered the apartment bombing that started the second Chechen war, he'd be dead for war crimes. This was more than just a vengeful Putin out to silence a critic, it was Putin covering his ass for crimes against humanity and for bold assassinations of his enemies both at home and abroad. Putin is a dictator waiting in the wings, and he'll do anything to hold off criticism until he has further consolidated power.

In addition to the original post, I have this to say: if you're going to assassinate someone, and you know they've got a wife and young son, what kind of hideous monster uses a radioactive poison that slowly eats the person alive over the course of weeks? A cold-hearted person might shoot a man, but it takes someone with something other than good and other than cold-hearted neutrality to want someone to suffer hopelessly for a month and then die.

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Postby puppets » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:17 am

Governments will do what they can to get thier way.
"I knew you were searching for him. I didn't want to interfere until you found him. Just in case you think you were really smart, young man, we intercepted four street thugs and two known sex offenders who were after you."

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Postby puppets » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:21 am

Also, you have to ask this.... What can Putin gain from killing this man?

He can prove a point to his people, don't cross him. Some scary people out there o.O
"I knew you were searching for him. I didn't want to interfere until you found him. Just in case you think you were really smart, young man, we intercepted four street thugs and two known sex offenders who were after you."

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Postby Jebus » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:43 pm

Do you think there's any country out there that wouldn't try to kill a turncoat spy?
The question is a difficult one. Firstly, spies, I imagine, would have to be pretty dedicated to their country, so it's not easy to turn one against their own government. I guess you'd have to doing some pretty nasty stuff, which seems the case here. So a government has to already be a morally bankrupt one in order to be put in the situation where they'd have to kill one of their own.

So I think that all the countries which are likely to have their own spies turn against them would kill turncoats, but I think there are plenty of countries who would never be in that situation.

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Postby Hegemon » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:49 pm

Seems to me that a spy can just as easily be turned by the money.

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Postby Jebus » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:52 pm

Yea I was thinking that, but I kind of meant in the case where they'd have a vendetta against the country they originally worked for.

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Postby Hegemon » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:54 pm

True... to actually have something against the country after the fact you would have to be pretty disgusted with it. That being said, any ex spy who is vocally against you, no matter the reason, I imagine would be a liability that any government would want killed.

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Postby Jebus » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:01 pm

But then, I think it would be easier to discredit a spy who was turned by money and rather than moral reasons, so again killing may not be necessary.

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Postby zeroguy » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:46 pm

In addition to the original post, I have this to say: if you're going to assassinate someone, and you know they've got a wife and young son, what kind of hideous monster uses a radioactive poison that slowly eats the person alive over the course of weeks? A cold-hearted person might shoot a man, but it takes someone with something other than good and other than cold-hearted neutrality to want someone to suffer hopelessly for a month and then die.
Just a thought... is there any believable reason Putin would have done it this way? I mean, if they didn't want it to be known that the Russian Govenment had anything to do with it, they wouldn't have chosen a means that has "all the hallmarks of a state-sponsored assassination." It just seems like such a random choice of weapon, and one that points directly to the government, at that.
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Postby Hegemon » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:50 pm

I think it would be a better idea to have done it with a gun... make it look like a robbery gone bad or something.

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Postby eriador » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:20 pm

power corrupts

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Postby Qing_Jao » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:34 pm

Clancy talks about the four reasons people do stuff like this
MICE

Money
Ideology
Conscience and
Ego.

Could have been any one of the four.
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Postby eriador » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:36 pm

Using such a blatant (and horrendous) method of killing sends a really powerful message: f*** with us and you will hurt, bad. And the fact that they (the Russian government) will probably get away with it only makes it scarier. I'm not going to be somebody's enemy if they can do that s*** to me with impunity.


Plus, suposedly the dosages to kill somebody are so slight that his family could have picked it up from him, just through skin contact. That would really suck.

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Postby fawkes » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:44 pm

They probably poisoned him that way in the hopes that investigators would mistake it for something else (like they had in the beginning), or that it would take so long to go into effect that they would be unable to determine where he had been poisoned. Because of the rarity of the polonium, they most likely assumed that there would be no test for it, and would be classified as some other, possibly more common poison.
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Postby Jebus » Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:42 pm

If this was done by the Russian government, and my only reservation about believing that it was is that it seems too obvious, then they did it so that people would know they did it, but couldn't prove they did it.

I don't think they ever assumed that an outspoken, anti-Russian ex-spy wouldn't receive every test in the book to find out what killed him.
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Postby puppets » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:55 pm

Bah. As I said if they did it, I think they did, they wanted it to be known, their people fear them, what better way to insure it stays that way?
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Postby hive_king » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:54 pm

maybe someone's trying to frame the russian government.
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby puppets » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:56 pm

ssshhhh.... I mean, even if someone TRIED to frame the government, it'll do far from hurting it. The Russian gov't has more or less terrorized their country since Stalin. It'll just make people even more submissive.
"I knew you were searching for him. I didn't want to interfere until you found him. Just in case you think you were really smart, young man, we intercepted four street thugs and two known sex offenders who were after you."

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Postby AnthonyByakko » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:00 am

Another Russian dissident poisoned abroad:

Yegor T. Gaidar, former prime minister and academic, was poisoned and is ill in Ireland. No conclusion yet as to the poison or the delivery method, and no suspects save for the obvious.

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Postby AnthonyByakko » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:38 am

More poisonings: http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1787322006 - Alexander Litvinenko's colleague, and someone he met with prior to being poisoned, is now suspected of having radiation poisoning as well.

In addition, Litvinenko's wife has been contaminated with small amounts of Polonium-210 as well. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... TVNewsAt11

This is getting out of hand, ridiculous, and disgusting all at the same time.

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Postby jotabe » Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:36 pm

Maybe Putin wants it to be known, while it is not being possible to prove it was him.

He was KGB, after all. He has proven for a long time how ruthless he is, too.

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Postby Guest » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:47 am

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti ... 80433/1009

apparently, britain sent investigators to interview potential witnesses in Moscow - one of which then promptly fell into a coma from radiation poisoning.

it was already ridiculous before - i don't know what it is now.

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Postby Jebus » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:27 am

I keep trying to type a response to this thread, but there's nothing that can be said. These are the actions of an evil man, who knows he has no other authority to fear.

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Postby hive_king » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:17 am

But don't you understand? Bush has seen into his soul! He must be trustworthy.
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).


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