Career Talk

[Syphon the Sun]

A lot of people have been asking about law school, lately: how to get in, what it's like, all that jazz. Now, most of the people who ask me these things I know personally, but I was recently asked by a fellow member in a private message, so I figured it ought be enough for a thread and given the collection of people we have here, I'm sure the lot of you hear similar questions about your career/field. And because Pweb has always been more appealing to the younger crowd, I figured they could get benefit from our experiences. So, enjoy my longwinded responses to some of the more common questions I'm asked and definitely post your own.


What should I major in?

I would advise against picking the criminal justice or pre-law majors, simply because law schools want their applicants to have a more diverse educational background and because not only do those programs not prepare you for law school and they train you to think about the law in a wholly different way than you'll need to learn eventually, while giving you the false impression that you "already know" the material.

So, now that I've told you what not to major in, the answer partly depends on the type of law you want to do; if you're interested in a really narrow field of law, your major will matter. For example, if you want to work in patent law, you'll need at least a Bachelor's degree in a science (biology, biochemistry, chemistry, engineering, pharmacology, physics, etc.) just to sit for the exam to become licensed to practice. But if you don't know what you want to do, or don't plan to practice in a really limited field, it doesn't matter as much.

The number one complaint employers have of recent law graduates is that they're horrible writers. So, if you want to get a head start, pick a major where you'll write; I always suggest English as a double major because you'll have to read critically and write a lot. But what about your first major? Well, if you want to practice family law, you could major in sociology or psychology. If you want to practice constitutional law, you could major in history. Or if you're really interested in corporate law, pick something business-related. But, really, it doesn't matter so much what your major is, unless you want to focus on something very specific that has specific requirements (and if that's the case, you should find out right away). The key isn't in picking the perfect major to get you accepted to law school; the key is in picking something that you're passionate about and will do well in. Doing well in whatever you choose is far more important than choosing the right major.


Where should I go to college so I can get into law school?

Most law schools don't care where your degree is from, so long as it's legitimate and you did well. This doesn't mean you should go to the crappiest college you know, but it does mean you don't need an Ivy League education to get into a good school.

So take some time looking at colleges, visiting their campuses, and talking to their professors, admission counselors, and financial aid directors. Don't be afraid to look at public and private universities and ask for more financial aid or talk about better packages you've been offered by other schools. Smaller private colleges are usually more willing to negotiate with good students than larger or public colleges are, simply because they tend to want you there more; a student with a 33 ACT is going to be worth more to a school of 600 than to one of 50,000.

Also, if you're looking for the Ivy League education without the Ivy League expense, see if your state has a "Public Ivy" like William and Mary, University of Illinois, University of California, University of Colorado, etc.


I'll be answering more questions later (if you have any, feel free to ask and I'll answer to the best of my ability), as I remember them, but for now I'll leave you with a few tips.


1. Don't go out partying or causing mayhem every night. Sure, everybody has a few skeletons in their closet, but the thing about law school (and later: the Character and Fitness board) is that they expect you not to have engaged in such behavior. And while it is definitely possible to get into law school (and pass the C&F examination) with such youthful indiscretions, it's a lot harder and you have to show them that you have sincerely changed your ways.

2. Get a job. Sure, some law students have never worked a day in their lives and have Mommy and Daddy paying their tuition and rent. If you're one of those kids: great, good for you. But law schools prefer students with some kind of experience, whether it's as an office assistant, grocery store clerk, or waiter. Law school is a test of time management and so the admissions board is more likely to select the student with a 3.5 GPA who worked while in college than the the student with a 3.8 that didn't.

3. Get involved on campus and in your community. Join a Registered Student Organization, act (or help backstage) in a theatre production, play a sport, do something that shows you're invested in the university/community. Volunteer when you can. It doesn't matter if it's at a soup kitchen, your church, a non-profit, whathaveyou; just make sure you're involved.

4. Get to know your professors. You'll need letters of recommendation from people who have seen your academic work and think you have what it takes to succeed in law school and life. You have to show them you're not just intelligent or can write well, but that you're committed, hard-working, and of good moral character. So find a professor you like and take a number of their classes, get to know them outside the classroom (at department gatherings or through academic advisment meetings), etc. And once you're accepted to law school, keep in touch; you'll need their recommendations again when it's time for your Character and Fitness examination.

5. Be prepared to go into debt. Law school is expensive. Most law students leave with an average debt load of about $80,000. There are a lot of law schools out there that offer scholarships, so when you're looking at potential schools, keep those in mind. But even with scholarships, the cost of books, student fees, living expenses, etc. all contribute to a ton of debt (especially when most law schools prohibit students from working their first year). This is something you should keep in mind, especially when you're getting ready to borrow money as an undergraduate. Take out only as much as you need, because you'll have plenty of debt later on, so there's no reason to pile it all up, now.

6. Expect long hours. You'll have classes from 8am until 4pm, five days a week, with few breaks (don't plan on much more than an hour, usually around lunchtime). And your professors won't care that you have sixty pages to read for each of your other five classes; they'll just keep on assigning sixty pages worth of material every day. It's not fun material, either; much of it is so dry, redundant, complex, or so outrageously illogical/unfair that you'll want to pull your hair out. But if it were just classes and reading, it wouldn't be so bad. It's not, though; you'll have workshops and lectures, presentations and seminars, even mandatory social gatherings. Law schools don't believe in free time, so expect your nights and weekends to be cut into.

7. Get ready for the curve. In high school and college, it didn't matter how many As were given. If the whole class got an A, that's fine. That's not how it works in law school. There are a specific number of As allowed (usually five to ten percent of the class), Bs allowed, and so on. For example, say you have a final worth 100 points and the lowest score is a 90. Now, in college, that'd be good enough to get him an A. In law school, because it's the lowest grade, it would probably earn him the equivelent of a C- at best (if the median value was closer to the lowest grade in value than the highest), but more likely a D or even an F. Of course, the inverse is also true; if the highest score is a 30, it'd be an F in college, but that 30 would probably get an A in law school. The point is that everything is a competition, which is why some law students become quite scary around finals time, stealing notes/outlines of other students, checking books out of the library so they're unavailable to classmates, etc. And given that law school is comprised of those students who were the best of the best for their undergraduate years, it's tough stuff.

8. Get ready for Jr. High levels of drama. You'll have class with the same sixty people, in the same room, every day. These people will be your "law friends." You'll eat lunch together, study together, drink together, because they know the kind of hell you're going through. But as happens with such small groups (especially uber-competitive ones, like law students) forced into spending so much time together, riffs will form, rumors will spread, feelings will get hurt. People you think are your friends will talk about you behind your back and hang you out to dry when you don't quite understand something. Befriend the "older" crowd (the students in their late 20s or 30s, the marriedfolk, the parents, etc.), because they've got other stuff going on, which seems to make drama/gossip is less prevalent.

9. Don't slack off. A lot of students (myself included) only want to do the bare minimum to get a decent grade. The problem is that when you get to law school, the bare minimum isn't so bare. When your grade consists of a single test covering complex material you've been studying for more than four months, you don't have the time to slack off. Plus, you'll be on call every single day for the 60+ assigned pages I talked about earlier. The professors will randomly pick people they want to humiliate (some base this on shirt color, others do it in a kind of order, and others yet just randomly draw your name out of a hat) and you had better know everything about the cases you were supposed to read unless you want to be berated for an hour and a half and receive two absences for the day.

10. Don't skip class. It's good to get used to this, now, before you have to learn to get used to it. Law schools have mandatory attendence policies. Usually, your allowed absences for the semester equals twice the amount of days you meet in a week. So, if you meet twice a week, you get four absences for the semester. And if you're unprepared for class, the professor will generally count you absent twice. So don't skip class, because chances are you really will get sick after you've used your absences and you'll either have to go to class feeling like crap or fail, because if you miss more than the allotted absences, you cannot take the final.

Anyway, I have more tips and/or questions to answer, but this feels like a lengthy post, already, so I'll probably just keep adding as I think about it and have time. I know our members have a wide range of fields we're involved in, so please feel free to list a few tips (maybe those that nobody had told you when you started?) of your career/field or answer any common questions you hear. And those that want to know anything about any career or field, definitely ask; we might not have anybody here that knows the answer, but you never know until you ask.

[Jeesh_girl15]

Sorry if I'm being a bit adolescent here, but how long did it take you to type all that?

[Syphon the Sun]

Sorry if I'm being a bit adolescent here, but how long did it take you to type all that?

A little more than half an hour, including a few revisions. It's only a couple thousand words. (I did warn you all that I was long-winded.)

[CezeN]

Smart thread.