Philotic Web

I'm making my way through the EG series and having a lot of fun doing so. I just finished Shadow Puppets. My question is, do you guys think that it is believable that people keep taking chances on Achilles? In the first place, why would the Russians bust him out of the asylum? They already had Vlad and probably several other battleschool graduates, why would the waste there time with someone who only lasted a few days in battleschool? Secondly, why would Peter take a chance on Achilles when it drove away the four battleschool graduates working for him? (Petra, Bean, Virlomi, and Suriyawong). Anybody else have any thoughts on this? Has OSC ever talked about this?

Thanks,
Col. Graff

People just cant get away from him. He is a genius. lets not forget this. He always had a way of flattering people to get what he wants.

Lets not forget how the "Universe bends to his will" Something OSC alludes to later in the series.

As for the Russians, I am not sure why they wanted him, except for the reasons above.

Peter was fascinated by him, wanted to see if he could ever use him. Probably one of the few people that Peter encoutered that was as smart or smarter than him

My question is, do you guys think that it is believable that people keep taking chances on Achilles?

We did elect George Bush Jr to a second term, so yeah, it's pretty believable.

Thanks for your replies, guys. Yet I'm still not satisfied. Why would Peter want to use him when it would drive away Bean who is the smartest person in the world?

Col. Graff

Because as far as Peter was concerned the real smartest person in the world was named Peter Wiggin.

I'm pretty sure that the russians broke Achilles out because battle school students became more precious then anything on earth, meaning that even though he was only in school for a few days...he was still worth breaking him out (Also I think they had his test scores, which proves he was wickely smart).

Peter thought he could control him, if not he figured he could kill him. Guess what? Neither of those worked. Remember everyone, Peter is NOT Ender...he makes mistakes.

While Peter brought people's worst fears to light and thus bent them to his will through fear; Achilles played off the fantasies and/or desires of others and thus allowed them to "use" him to make those reality. All the while determined to suck them dry for his purposes of filling his need for hope and adequacy.

In addition to all the of the reasons stated above, I felt that it seemed Achilles always promised more than the enemy. Whatever the others promised, he promised more and better. But of course he did not always follow through.

I just have to say that if I ever met Card I'd have to laughingly ask him if any of his motivation for creating Achilles came from the fact that he desperately needed to find a way to redeem Peter's character from his sadistic childhood (and make him look like a decent guy in the shadow series) and decided the only way to do so was to create someone who could actually make him look good in comparison. I guess it's only possible if he was always planning more than one book in the shadow series. . . . but I still wonder . . . lqtm.

The Russians probably wanted to take him before any other country took him, like China for example. And plus, if you could have another military genius, even if he was insane, wouldn't you take him? A good example of an insane military leader who still got the job done was William Tecumseh of the American Civil War; he killed hundreds of civillians in his imfamous "march to the sea", but it won the war.

Achilles had contacts, several of them being in Russia. These contacts probably arranged for him to be removed from the asylum. Also, the fact that he made it into Battle School in the first place made him a desirable ally (or at least, what they thought was an ally). Maybe the fact that he was kicked out more being mentally unstable and murderous made him all the more likable by the Russians, who wanted to conquer. Peaceful, sane people don't conquer; agressive madmen do.

Wasn't he on Earth, free, and making contacts before the other battleschoolers were allowed to come home. He very well could have been pulling some strings in that first war that Peter stopped. I think It was more the contacts he had and how Peter could exploit them that made Peter try and use Achillies.

They [the Russians] already had Vlad

If I remember right, they didn't trust Vlad to run anything because, from soldiering under Bean, he had a perfect record of losses at Battle School. Thus, they didn't really "have him" because they (unjustly) considered him lesser than any other Battle Schooler.

Achelles' appeal was not just that he was a Battle Schooler, but that he was radically manipulative. He got the alliance between India and Pakistan, after all. The Russians couldn't see into the future to get that example, but they must have seen from his test scores (and the fact he hid his murderous insanity from the tests) the capability for such brilliant manipulation. He's a diplomatic master rather than a military master (Battle Schooler).

[quote="Arlecchino"]...Remember everyone, Peter is NOT Ender...he makes mistakes.[/quote]

Ender did make mistakes too. Ender was just as human as Peter was. Ender made many mistakes while in battle school and even after saving the world. Ender is not Bean, Ender is human. That is one of the reasons why Bean was given the power to take over in case Ender started to falter during the final exams. Even Graff and Mazer know, Ender was human; he'd make mistakes. Just like any human, just like his brother.
But Peter's use of Achilles wasn't a "mistake". Achilles was Peter's number one competitor in the quest for "taking over the world" (the difference between them being that Peter was peaceful, the right person for the job, and NOT insane.) Peter wanted to study Achilles, learn his motives, learn why nations found him so appealing and believed every word he said. Although he lost support for this action, in Peter's mind it wasn't a mistake.