The Obligatory Buffy thread

[Jayelle]

Buffy without Joss is stupid. It's why the first movie sucked so bad.

[neo-dragon]

Whedon wrote that movie too, although I know that he didn't have much creative control over it.. The thing is, it was made to be a B-movie. I'm inclined to think that whoever does Buffy now will take it a bit more seriously.

Oh yeah, I forgot to list Star Trek among the awesome reboots.

[Janus%TheDoorman]

Considering Season 8... maybe it is better if Joss isn't the one at the helm.

[Rei]

I will probably wait until there are previews before deciding if I'll give it a chance.

[Eaquae Legit]

I'll hold out on judgement until I see some previews, but I'm not confident. I doubt it will be as goofy as the original movie, though. The tv series pretty much killed any chance of "goofy".

[Bean_wannabe]

UGH. Do not get me started. I'm in denial. Hoping it gets Ender's Game'd.

What? Are you trying to suggest something about the chances of the film ever materialising? Shame on you.

[starlooker]

Alrighty, then. So, Thanksgiving was a Buffy Season 2 Marathon on Chiller. After watching it, I got on Netflix and watched Season 1, the rest of Season 2, and part of Season 3 while working on my handicraft.

Verdict: Actually, perhaps the reason I didn't like it before was I only ever saw episodes when they were OUT of high school. IN High School, I adore them. (I also adore that this so obviously took place during the years I was in high school.) I LOVED Season 1. The Xander/Cordy storyline makes me laugh. A lot. And I was so, so, so happy when Willow and Xander kissed while all dressed up like grown-ups, although I wish they'd been able to leave it at that. I'm not crazy about Faith showing up in the recent few episodes I've watched, but whatever. I did like her totally humiliating Scott at the homecoming dance.

Funniest, funniest, laugh-out-loud moment that I will forever treasure: Cordelia walking along the swimming pool following after a sea-demon she thinks is Xander promising to improve his quality of life with bathtub toys, if he would like. That and most of the Band Candy episode.

Still prefer Angel, overall, and am dubious about the seasons post-graduation. But I am enjoying this more than I thought I would.

Major annoyance: After a few episodes, I am finding myself talking and thinking in the cadence of the characters on the show. That's annoying as all hell.

[Mich]

Major annoyance: After a few episodes, I am finding myself talking and thinking in the cadence of the characters on the show. That's annoying as all hell.

HA! This always happens to me if I've been watching/reading a lot of something. Readings is the strangest, though, because, like, they don't have a cadence.

But woo for actually liking Buffy!

[Young Val]

The first three/high school seasons of Buffy are my favorite.

I LOVE Cordelia, even on Buffy (she's my fave on Angel). I think one of my favorite laugh out loud moments in season one is in the pilot, actually, when Buffy almost stakes Cordelia at the Bronze by mistake. Cordelia whips out her cell phone, turns to her friends and says, "Excuse me. I have to call everyone I have ever met. Right now."

*mild Angel Season 1 spoilers*

I was on the couch feeling horrible all day yesterday and actually broke out my Angel dvds. I'm halfway through season one (just finished the dreadful Bai Ling episode, "She"). Even though I KNOW it's coming, Doyle's death kills me EVERY TIME. UGH. I love him.

[Jayelle]

We need more vampire slayers, just not more Buffy.

Sums up how I feel exactly.

[Peterlover14]

I love Buffy! My step mom introduced me to her last summer. We watched as many episodes as we could.

Next summer- Angel

[starlooker]

Alrighty, sports fans, Kirsten's views on Buffy as she's binging through the series.

Seasons 1-3, don't remember as well anymore, but I have an impression of having loved them. Angel and Cordelia's presence helped a lot.

Season 4: I found it rather tedious on the whole. I mean, I still liked it and all, but by the end I was sick and tired of Giles hanging around his house. I found the Initiative and Adam to be less-than-stunning Big Bads. Also, I really kind of hate Riley and Buffy. They were not a good match for one another. I hate how the last few episodes framed it into, "you're pushing away something healthy, this perfect guy, and ruining your life," as opposed to, "Hey, you're pushing Riley away. Could it be that you're just not that into him, nothing wrong with that and no judgments?" One exception, the episode "Hush" was incredibly good and creepy.

Season 5: ROCKED MY SOCKS. Loved this season so much, along with the copious amounts of tears I shed throughout (particularly during, "The Body," which I had watched before, but watched again. Husband was quite alarmed by the copious amounts of tears and sobs it caused, actually.) I was initially uncertain about Dawn's existance but find myself liking her. Willow and Tara's relationship = awesome, particularly with the Glory twist. Adored Giles explaining to Ben that, "she's a hero, unlike us." Definitely felt like the show had found itself again.

Season 6: I am towards the end of and cannot freaking wait to get through it. The Trio annoys the ever living hell out of me. The musical episode was fun and all, but yeah. I'm feeling, um, bored now.

Also, a complaint I continuously have throughout the show is their depiction of psychiatric hospitals, wards, and institutions which is so far from reality as to be bizarre. Not to mention stigma-perpetuating. That always rankles me. For what they wanted to accomplish in the episdoe "Normal Again," it might have actually made it a lot MORE effective and emotional and touching to present the hospital as somewhat realistic. Most of them make an effort to look at least somewhat homelike. Not everyone -- anyone -- dresses in white. Restraints are used very, very seldom. I've worked in three different types of hospitals in three different locales now, and I feel fairly qualified to say. One of my favorite memories -- we had a person with dementia who spent a lot of time staring out one of the windows from a couch in the common area. It was winter and the view was pretty bleak. So someone went and planted some very cheerful fake flowers outside to give her something else to look at. It was sweet and kind and homelike. Joss Whedon pisses me off a lot on this point. Couldn't we have a qualified, caring, humane doctor in an institution that does its best to provide a warm, supportive environment trying to help "normal" Buffy? Of course not. Just white, sterile, "Cuckoo's Nest."

I am hoping that I like the Dark Willow episodes I know are coming.

[Young Val]

Hmmm... you make me want to rewatch season 5--a season I've never liked.

I do love Willow & Tara and I do like Glory. Dawn always irked me. It's something about Michelle Trachtenberg's voice, I think? She tends to speak through her nose, which elevates the whiny dialogue she's given to a whole new level of iritating. I could never quite get used to her being around.

As for Season 4, I agree with you; Riley & Buffy's relationship is obnoxious.

[Mich]

Pretty much spot-on for me. Giles and Ben is totally Giles' best moment in, like, the entire series. Most likely. And I know everyone hates Dawn, but her presence was totally justified and a plot point, although everyone tossed the idiot ball around a bit when it came to her and she held it the most. Michelle Trachtenberg is totally kind of annoying, like Kelly said, but I ended up liking Dawn by the end.

...which left season 6 to be really lame (Buffy's back... but she Came Back Wrong!) with the musical episode being a sole exception with a few good wham moments.

Tell us what you think of the rest!

[Peterlover14]

Well last summer my dad and stepmother introduced me to Buffy and I LOVED it. So much that when I saw it came on tv regularly, I pressed "record series" and for the past couple of months most of my spare time has been spent towards watching the entire series. Again.

Today they played the last episode. I enjoyed every second of it, but when I was over I decided to stop recording Buffy. I'm so busy that I don't have time to watch reruns over and over again...no matter how good they are.

Plus, I WON'T miss the channels they come on. Chiller plays scary commercials and Logo...well it's the gay channel. 70% of the commercials are about this crazy show called Rupaul's Drag Race, and 10% are cheesy Trojan vibrator commercials...

Anyway, that's my Buffy story.

Btw, my favorite character is Spike.

[Syphon the Sun]

Xander doesn't marry Anya?! What the f***.

[Young Val]

Xander doesn't marry Anya?! What the f***.

I know! This still upsets me.

[Mich]

Xander doesn't marry Anya?! What the f***.

I know! This still upsets me.

You guys are making me sad, stop it!

[Rei]

That's actually, I think, one of the few episodes that somehow I've never seen.

[Eaquae Legit]

He doesn't even not-marry her for a good reason! Gah, that episode (and the storyline as it went from there) bothered me!

[starlooker]

Oh, no freaking kidding. Gah! Yick! Holy s***, that pissed me off.

I never posted my closing thoughts on Buffy:

1. The Dark Willow episodes sort of, almost made up for the rest of Season 6. And I liked that rat-girl got turned into a human secretly pissed off at having been a rat. I never was able to bring myself to watch the episode where Riley came back.

2. But nothing, nothing made up for Season 7.

Why couldn't Buffy have stopped after five seasons and Angel gone on to seven? Although, hm. Come to think of it, Season 7 of Buffy was also Season 4 of Angel, in which Whedon officially lost his mind.

Bitch-commando Buffy annoyed the ever living crap out of me. As did most of the whiny, stupid potentials. I am glad that they didn't try to set Willow up with someone similar to Tara, but I'm not sure I believed Kennedy, either. I did like her line about how magic is just like fairy-tales, and the fact that they dealt with Willow's guilt and issues related to Tara/Warren/Kennedy.

The Angel fan in me is totally annoyed now at the crossover episode where Andrew comes to Sunnydale and explains that all the Potentials are Slayers. Hm. Let's see. Angel and Buffy have a (very funny) reunion, and then she tells him they're fighting an apocalyptic battle and he's going to be her second line if it doesn't work out at Sunnydale. Given that he's Mr. Second Line, don't you think she or someone might've, I don't know, CALLED him and said, "Hey, no worries, we got this one. Oh, and guess what?" Cuz it's clear that no one in L.A. has any clue about it.

Favorite part of the Angel cameo was his obvious jealousy that there was another vampire with a soul. "I was doing it before it was cool."

That said, I like Andrew and his tall tales and most especially his story about Faith, The Dark Slayer who even killed a Vulcan.

I DID love Nathan Fillion as the bad guy. A lot.

Also, the thing that came closest to me to making up for Season 7 was when Willow did the spell to turn all the Potentials to Slayers and you saw her glowing white, and after it was done, laughing and saying, "that was nifty!" It was such a beautiful counterpoint to Dark Willow.

Anyone else notice how the end shot of the opening credits has Buffy going from looking like a kick-ass righteous Slayer with a capital S (in freaky blue lighting; wielding a double bladed axe) switched to a shot of her looking more and more like a constipated and irritated bank teller?

Oh, and yes, Spike does rock. As do his plotlines.

[Young Val]

I actually juuuust finished watching all 7 seasons back to back (am now watching season 5 of Angel, because I hate it and watch it the least, whereas I watch the others often-ish. Also, it's the chronological place to go after season 7).

Lots of thoughts, but mostly, just wanted to link to THIS which I am very interested in:

http://markwatches.net/reviews/2011/12/ ... hellmouth/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[neo-dragon]

Oh, hello there Angel! You’re rather dapper. Is he another slayer?

It's so fun to see something that's old and familiar to you through virgin eyes.

I'd almost forgotten that Angel being a vampire would be a spoiler for some people. I think of it as a "Luke, I am your father" type of surprise.

[Mich]

Nice link! I forgot all of these strange discoveries with the initial viewing, even though it was only a few years ago for me. Man! Not knowing things was crazy. And he's right: the point that Buffy has already given up on being a Slayer is pretty unusual. There's no origin story with her.

[neo-dragon]

I read that Buffy (the series) was meant to take place in the same continuity as Whedon's original script for Buffy the film. Thus the film was meant to be her origin story, except that executive meddling changed what Joss had in mind.

[Claire]

I actually juuuust finished watching all 7 seasons back to back (am now watching season 5 of Angel, because I hate it and watch it the least, whereas I watch the others often-ish. Also, it's the chronological place to go after season 7).

Lots of thoughts, but mostly, just wanted to link to THIS which I am very interested in:

http://markwatches.net/reviews/2011/12/ ... hellmouth/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kelly, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'VE JUST DONE TO ME. I had never heard of Mark Watches before, but I love it. I read through those few Buffy episodes, and then saw that he also did Avatar: the Last Airbender and switched over to that. I love the way he writes. It's so fun to read these through new eyes (especially because I ALWAYS spoil myself with books/tvshows/movies so I never had the same experience he has when watching. Yeah, I suck.) I see he also has a Mark Reads site where he's done ASOIAF and Hunger Games and Harry Potter...this is going to be a huge time sink. I really love it.

[Jayelle]

I will join in the chorus of: awesome link! Also, nice time sink...


The past few times we've come home, we've found our babysitter watching Buffy (after the kids are in bed), I finally asked her "Do you want to borrow the Buffy DVDs?" She seemed excited.

[GS]

I finally started watching Buffy. I have watched some episodes before and I've seen some of Angel. But the Mark Watches link pretty much inspired it. I read all of his Avatar reviews and it was awesome to read his thoughts knowing nothing about the series. He really had a lot of the same thoughts that I did. Rereading through the first season of Avatar, it was fun to see if he would like/dislike the same things and then being able to predict what he would and wouldn't like. I plan to do the same with Buffy.

I just finished episode 7, so I am officially ahead of Mark. And I think his head might explode after this episode.

I am pretty sure that everyone that is reading this thread has either seen the entire series or doesn't care about spoilers. But I am preempting that there will be spoilers.

Like I said, I know some stuff. But I guess my time lines were a bit off.

Angel? From the beginning? I didn't think he was in the show right away, so that was a little shock. And Darla? And she is dead already? Wasn't expecting that.

No Seth Green? I can't remember his character's name, but I thought he was in the cast from the beginning. Again, just a little surprised.

I am enjoying it, like I knew I would. But I am not overwhelmed. I suspected that might happen, but was hoping it wouldn't since I know the characters some coming into it.

Buffy, Willow and Cordelia are as I expected they would be. I spoiled the first episode by reading Mark Reads first entry, but had the same thought about Buffy knowing she is the slayer already and that Willow and Xander find out so fast.

Now on to Xander, I don't remember hating you from what I remember, but I do right now. I feel like he is completely out for himself (not expected) and Buffy(definitely expected). But you try to rape Buffy and tell Willow she is essentially worthless while you were in Hyena mode, and you remember it?? You are just going to keep that to yourself?? What a dick.

And Giles, you are just going to go along with that? Also, why don't you know more? You say you had known you were going to be a watcher. And you had time to prepare. So, why don't you know anything? You most consult books every time. I specifically remember liking you, but you seem to be a pretty bad watcher thus far. I hope that changes quickly.

I am not really sure what is going on with the Master and Anointed One. He seems to be running low on crew. And if the Anointed One is supposed to lead the Slayer to hell, then why are you still trying to kill her now? Why not just let the kid do his thing and be done with it? I suppose he has to wait for something, but I don't know.

[buckshot]

I do miss Buffy, I missed a lot of the last few seasons guess, I got into Angel a lot more.

[GS]

So I am now a couple episodes into season 2. Here are some random thoughts. Again, spoilers below.

I don't know if it is the acting or the writing, but the dialogue between the crew is much better. It seems more natural, even though it is wittier and awkward at times. It just feels more like these people are actually friends now.

The Master was kind of a dud. I didn't like the first season finale. Buffy goes down without much of fight. You have her right where you want her and you don't make sure she is dead? You were hoping she drown? What if she didn't fall in the water? Then Buffy is just fine after getting bit? And she is somehow stronger because of it? WTF? Then she kills him without much trouble. I didn't like it. I hope they explain why, but I am not holding my breath.

Xander, you are still pissing me off. I get that you are never going to like Angel. I know it is out of jealousy, even though you want everyone to believe it is because he is a vampire. And I am okay with it. But stop it with the "I'm in love with Buffy, even though Willow is right there, but I will definitely fawn over any other female except Willow even though I am supposedly in love with Buffy" stuff. It annoys the crap out of me and makes you look like a douche. I want to believe you aren't a douche. Because when you aren't doing that, you have been growing on me.

Giles! You are more knowledgeable! I understand every situation is going to need some research, but you actually seem to have some base knowledge before you have to consult the books. Also, your awkwardness with women is pure win.

I am happy that Cordelia is more in the mix with the crew. Also, her and Xander seems like it is a lock to happen.

I knew the principal was into something as soon as he started picking on Buffy. But wasn't the principal shady in the movie? I was hoping that wouldn't happen again. But he can't be a Vamp right? I am fairly certain that he has been outside in the sunlight, but now I can't remember for sure. I'll have to watch for it in the next episode.

Angel, you sure get your ass kicked for being this big bad dude. Every time you try to help Buffy, you seem to get beat up. Although in the last episode, you did carry your weight.

Spike! I didn't think you would pop up so soon. Business seems like it is going to pick up.

[Young Val]

I love Season Two so hard.

[GS]

I am liking Season 2 much better so far. I'm currently watching episode 4. Spike and Oz come in back to back episodes! Awesome! And Xander stop hitting on the Inca mummy, you dolt.

[Platypi007]

I knew the principal was into something as soon as he started picking on Buffy. But wasn't the principal shady in the movie? I was hoping that wouldn't happen again. But he can't be a Vamp right? I am fairly certain that he has been outside in the sunlight, but now I can't remember for sure. I'll have to watch for it in the next episode.

Principal Snyder is played by Armin Shimerman, he played Quark in Star Trek TNG and DS9. Also, he was an evil wizard in and episode of Charmed. I seem to remember he had the Charmed Ones believing he was on their side for a while, but he was just trying to get some book (I don't think it was their Book of Shadows, though). He's had some other small roles in TV, but I can't remember all of them.

[GS]

Wow season two. This has to be the best season, right? It can't possibly be better than that.

I mean any scene with the Angel/Spike/Drusilla(?) combo was just perfect. And it was so much darker than the first season. So many gut wrenching/heartbreaking moments. More Cordelia and adding Oz to the mix are both pluses. Xander is so much better this season. I love the all of the little references to past episodes. My favorite is Oz looking at the cheerleading trophy and saying that the eyes are following him. I just don't see how it can get better than this.

I have also finished season three and liked it considerable less than season two. I'm not really sure if it's because I loved two so much or that I really didn't enjoy three. I actually remember seeing some specific episodes previously from season three. I liked the awkwardness of Buffy returning and her trying to date again. Less Angel was a minus, at least at the beginning. Very little Spike and no Dru were major bummers. Oz being more in the group was good, Cordy being less in was bad. I didn't like the Willow/Xander stuff. I was very meh on Faith and the Mayor. And Wesley got very tiresome really quickly. But I really loved some episodes. I love the alternate timeline episode and the episode when alternate Willow comes back. I loved that we get a glimpse of evil Angel again. Teenage Mom/Giles/Snyder are awesome. And I liked how everyone else stepped up during the prom and graduation. I am hoping that next season is better than three, but I can't see how it will be better than two.

Things that I already know going forward. Angel gets his own show and Wesley and Cordelia are on it. So I don't expect to see them anymore, though I imagine (know?) that there will be crossover episodes. I know Oz leaves at some point, I expect that to happen this season. I know Anya becomes part of the core group. Riley already popped up in the first episode of the season. I know a little bit about him. I know Spike returns as a regular member of the show. I hope this means that Dru will be back for a stretch as well, although I imagine she gets killed at some point.

Now on to season four!

[Young Val]

Season Two is really, really great, but I'm surprised you don't care for Season Three. Perhaps that is because I have a deep, deep love of Faith.

Do you plan to watch Angel at all? (do it!)