Philotic Web

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070423/wl_nm/pope_gays_dc

The Vatican's second-highest ranking doctrinal official on Monday forcefully branded homosexual marriage an evil and denounced abortion and euthanasia as forms of "terrorism with a human face."

Yeah, it's these guys we ought to give moral authority too... Apparently this guy's never seen terrorism before.

If terrorism didn't have a human face, I'd be confused when the robots and/or dolphins took over.

I seem to have missed the part where homosexual couples were blowing themselves up in front of schools and bus stops and beheading non-believers in video-taped murder sessions. I guess I forgot to TiVo that CNN "Gay Terrorism" special.

This quack from the Vatican and his statements are an affront and an insult to every victim who has had their lives snuffed or families ruined by acts of actual terrorism, and an insult to every victim of homophobia murdered, beaten or abused throughout history. To make parallels like that for the sake of politico-religious rhetoric is sickening. To make some kind of social morality statement by labeling homosexual marriage as "terrorism" is ignorant of both homosexuality and terrorism.

Any other public figure making such an egregious breach of public-speaking sanity would be forced into resignation in disgrace (and we've seen it very recently happen). But I guess you have to rape or molest a small child in order to be punished by the Catholic Church, and then only "punished" in the sense of a transfer to a new location for a change of scenery.

I'm f****** sick to my stomach with this bullshit.

Sparrow,

Read the quote again. The Vatican compares abortion and euthanasia with terrorism, but only calls homosexuality evil. In other words, the Catholic Church thinks homosexuality is wrong (which should come as no surprise). The comparison to terrorism, however, is reserved for practices that the Church equates with murder -- abortion and euthanasia. If you agree that abortion and euthanasia are as morally wrong as any murder, then that's appropriate.

Evil =/= wrong.
There is so many people who i think they are taking the wrong course of action, that they are wrong in to many accounts... but that doesn't even come close to be evil, or do evil things.

If terrorism didn't have a human face, I'd be confused when the robots and/or dolphins took over.

Maybe they meant "humane face?"

Evil =/= wrong.
There is so many people who i think they are taking the wrong course of action, that they are wrong in to many accounts... but that doesn't even come close to be evil, or do evil things.

My point was that the Catholic Church didn't compare homosexuality with terrorism, as Sparrowhawk implies. They only say it's wrong, evil, whichever you prefer. They do compare euthanasia and abortion with terrorism, but that's consistent with their doctrine that those practices are murder.

They didn't. But they still mentioned both. In the same speech. That kind of things usually aren't coincidences.

No, the distinction is very clear, and it's very important.

A good analogy: I'm giving a speech on the evils of drug abuse. Among my points:

1. Binge drinking is bad because it leads to poor judgement, increased risk of injury to self or others, increased risk of sexual abuse, bad long-term health effects, etc, etc.

2. Heroin is insanely addictive and deadly. If you try it once, there's a good chance you'll get addicted, and if that happens there's a good chance you'll never make a full recovery. If you want to utterly destroy your life, and damage those who love you forever, there aren't many better ways.

Alcohol and heroin are mentioned in the same speech, because they're both drugs that are abused. However, I am not in any way implying that the two drugs are equally dangerous.

So it is for this speech. Homosexuality, euthanasia, and abortion are three practices that are related, from the Catholic Church's point of view, because they are immoral practices that have gained widespread acceptance in Western society. However, the Church does distinguish between sexual immorality and murder, and there is no question as to which one it thinks is worse.

So Sparrowhawk's rant to the effect that the Church is equating homosexuality with terrorism is based on a false premise. It equates practices that it believes involve the murder of innocent people with terrorism -- the murder of innocent people. In light of their doctrines on abortion and euthanasia, it is not an insult to the victims of terrorism to say that the three are all rougly equally morally wrong.

Edit: Sparrowhawk, does this make sense to you?

Don't expect him to come back. He doesn't usually return to threads where he's been shown wrong.

Either way guys... this is lunacy.

Don't expect him to come back. He doesn't usually return to threads where he's been shown wrong.

And I don't usually return to threads in which I've kicked ass, but I've made an exception.

Fish, its usually a good idea to describe what you consider lunacy.

Everything talked about in this thread is lunacy.

Well thanks for speaking on my behalf H_K, though I don't remember asking you to you pretentious little prick.

Edit: Sparrowhawk, does this make sense to you?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. While it doesn't change the ire I feel towards this guy and his belief, which is mirrored by the Catholic church, nor does it change how f****** stupid what he said was, it mitigates the outlandishness of the rhetoric he spouted.

See what happens, Anthony, when you read what's written and not what you want to have been written? It makes things so much easier.

I don't see how. Nothing's changed from what it used to be. Nothing is easier nor better. Nothing has changed at all. Even if I had wanted an important religious figure to compare homosexuality to terrorism (which, seriously, what the f***? ) it wouldn't be "harder". I'm a little dissapointed you'd claim that I wanted that to have been what he said, considering how little good it would do anyone, period. Look, I realize that finding ways to score points against me is a rare experience and that you'll try and milk it whenever possible, but please - at least score clean hits rather than ham-handed attempts at upstaging. It's better for everyone that way.

No, what I mean is that you have a habit of reading something, and misinterpreting it in some totally outlandish way that goes to prove how bad [insert rant subject] is, even more so than the facts show, especially when a closer reading would show you that [insert rant subject] isn't quite as insane as you're making them out to be.

Well, no one's shown me that the Catholic Church or this Vatican official isn't as insane as I think they are, just that they worded their insanity in a more socially palatable manner than I had assumed. Maybe I assume the worst when I hear stupid s*** from people I dislike, much the same way I pretty much ignore or ridicule anything I see you post.

Matty, i will only just say two things:

-Alcohol and heroine are actually the same thing, basically. Equally bad and harmful.

-Are you familiar with association of ideas and manipulative speech?

-Alcohol and heroine are actually the same thing, basically. Equally bad and harmful.

What?!...

From one-liners to one-worders, i see...

Let's se... substances that are recognized by the body as toxic. Substances that are used because of their psychotropic effect. Substances that cause dependence, tolerance, what causes to be eventually abused. An abuse that causes death.

I know they are not chemically the same substance. But their effects on human beings are way too similar.

Of course, i know that is a lot more fashionable to get drunk and be tipsy (=********) on a party with cool (=drunk) people, than going to a dark suburb, and inject yourself, like an outcast junkie. But, as i don't particularly care about fashion... well... i see them as the same thing.

So caffeine is the same as heroine?

Not quite... the dosage of caffeine needed to actually harm the body is quite large. Caffeine causes tolerance, but not really dependence.
But i have seen once a caffeine addict (psychological addiction, not physical one), and they are quite as bad off as drunkers or junkies.

One big difference, FT, is that no one has ever died of a caffine overdose, while I can give you a list as long as you please of alcohol poisining fatalities.

Yeah my comment was as ludicrous as saying that alcohol and heroine are the same thing.