Girly Stuff

[Luet]

I am plain. Not ugly but also not turn-heads pretty. Plain and simple and if you weren't already looking for me, I wouldn't stick out in a crowd.

I feel the exact same way. It doesn't help that all the girl friends that I've had, have been prettier or more eye-catching than me. So, whenever we would go out anywhere, guys look at them and never, ever at me. It's not great for the ego.

I'm supposed to be 14-17lbs lighter, as a maximum, but ideally, 34-37 lbs lighter. I am convinced I would look...sick, flat, skeletal.

You are ideally supposed to be 100lbs?? That's crazy.

All the grown-ups don't seem to care what they look like and/or aren't fixated on it.

You don't know my mother. And by the way, she is the same height as you and would KILL (probably literally) to weigh what you weigh.

[steph]

For what it's worth, I think you're pretty. So what if you're not drop-dead gorgeous, you're still attractive you dork, both physically and in what some would argue are more important ways.

[neo-dragon]

For what it's worth, I think you're pretty. So what if you're not drop-dead gorgeous, you're still attractive you dork, both physically and in what some would argue are more important ways.

Agreed, you big dope. I truly believe that any guy would be lucky to have you.

[Eaquae Legit]

Thirded!

[mr_thebrain]

fourthed.

and don't think we're biased because you're a pweb buddy. i mean that surely adds a certain sexiness, sure. but you're a good lookin lady.

[Petrie]

I feel the exact same way. It doesn't help that all the girl friends that I've had, have been prettier or more eye-catching than me. So, whenever we would go out anywhere, guys look at them and never, ever at me. It's not great for the ego.

That was jr high, high school, and part of college for me. After that, I was around females less and males more, so I went from being the least attractive female to being around the males looking at the more attractive females who weren't me.

It wasn't great for my ego but I guess on the flip side, not getting attention was also kind of nice. I've had an uptick in it since starting at the library and it feels creepy and gross.

You are ideally supposed to be 100lbs?? That's crazy.

Isn't it, though? It's part of what I hate about generalizing and clumping people by height for health purposes. Thin/low weight != healthy/healthier automatically, even for short people. It is so much more complex than that.

You don't know my mother.

This is true. I think I meant your average person. Maybe they're not talking to me about it but I don't hear many people I know caring about it. Either they all have a lot better self-esteem than I do or they're hiding it.



Anyhow, thanks for the supportive words. :) It was a bad day; I've had two better ones since.

[Gravity Defier]

Mirrors and the scale are indefinitely banned from my presence. The scale is a piece of cake to avoid, whereas mirrors, not so much. Thankfully, it's easy enough to divert my gaze onto something more harmless, like my hands.

I'm going back and forth between a song with a positive message (that is, quite frankly, making me feel like s***) and a song with a negative message (that is, you guessed it, making me feel better).


I'm sick of being such a f****** cliché, but more so, I'm sick of being the extreme of a f****** cliché.

At this point, I don't even know what I'm supposed to do to fix this issue. I feel like the baby steps I make aren't getting me anywhere fast enough. I already avoid magazines geared towards women (Cosmo and whatever else exists), though it is sometimes hard to avoid the wall o' zines that lines the entrance into the library. I quit reading a blog at least a year ago that I found was adding to this whole negative personal view. I've tried pep talks to myself. I've tried listening to people (with positive comments) to no avail. When I am happy and/or distracted (or happily distracted), I'm fine.

But things just came in quick succession and I could not handle it.

1- Doctor: You're obese! Lose weight to become "acceptable"!
2- Grandma: Hey, kid, you're ugly!
3- Watch a movie, make the mistake of commenting on a f****** VS model/wannabe actress and have it rubbed in your face that they are that much more attractive than you'll ever hope to be!

Then insert a bunch of well intentioned comments/compliments and listen to them ring completely hollow, especially the ones that in jokes end with "That's just something ugly people tell themselves," e.g. "You're great in ways that don't involve how you look!"


Perfect s***-storm for me and first class ticket on the spiral of doom.

Which leads to me remembering a friend tell me, "Oh, guys being completely uninterested in you probably has nothing to do with your appearance; it's probably your s***** attitude!"

Thanks a f****** lot. THAT helps.

It does not help to hear nice things from people in relationships (dating, engaged, or married) try to talk things up. I want to scream at them, sometimes, "You have no f****** clue. You have someone who thinks the world of you, who thinks, subjectively, that you are the most beautiful person in the world, even if they know objectively that is likely not true. You have them to tell you this when you aren't strong enough to think it yourself."

And hearing it from friends is like hearing it from my parents. Even though there is nothing strictly saying they have to say nice things, they're that much more likely to do it just because they know me, care about me, and want to make me feel better.

In the past I've tried overeating and undereating and just plain healthy (as I can make myself) eating. Nothing ever works.

Except for shutting down. That works. That is the ticket.

[mr_thebrain]

first *hug*

second. just because people are in happy relationships now doesn't mean they've ALWAYS been in a happy relationship. and i may be married, but she definitely doesn't think the world of me.

anyway, you're a pretty excellent person from what i can tell, and while i can't say anything about how you look because i've only ever seen pictures of you from the chest up. but you seem like a pretty attractive person otherwise. i doubt you have much to worry about.

as for the losing weight thingy, what's been working for me is: skip fancy diets, don't over or undereat. you don't have to give up all the things you enjoy either. if you have a craving, fill it. (if you just give up the foods you enjoy that are fattening, eventually you'll give in and gorge yourself on it) try to cut portion size down a little bit, avoid snacking as much as possible (i eat when i'm bored, so i have to really try to avoid it. i didn't realize how much i was eating because i was bored!) try to avoid soda. i used to have one or two a day, i've made it to one or two a week. it's more of a reward for me now. if you're unhappy, you're doing it wrong

though i'm sure you weren't looking for pointers.

[Gravity Defier]

The problem here, Underscore (see what I did, there? I pretended that is your nickname), is that my post was a good example of insecurity + low self-esteem gone rampant = irrational overreaction. You have what I like to call male-brain, wherein you see a problem and offer solutions to the part(s) you think are (easily) solvable.

I appreciate the gesture, I really, really do, but it's lost on me. I can't believe you and not because I don't want to but because I simply can't fathom that there is any truth to any nice thing you've said. If I could believe it, chances are I was already feeling happy about myself to begin with and didn't need to hear it.

And herein lies the problem. I can build up a wall against the stuff that makes me feel like s***. Some women, I assume, are built like a fort. My wall is more like a wooden fence. Sure, it can withstand some stuff but the more gets thrown at it, the weaker it gets. Some things hit it harder than others; males talking about supermodels and other celebrities as though they set the bar for what they find appealing hits more or less hard depending on the male saying it. A guy I'm not at all interested in is going to be much weaker than the guy I am interested in saying it but both are going to weaken the wall. Same for being told I'm fat or ugly. When the wall goes crashing down, as it did Wednesday night, no kind words are going to help. At all. It's not until I get the wall built back up, all on my own, that they do any good but by then, I'm already protected again.

The problem is, I don't know how to take that power away from people, make it so their opinions and words are harmless. As I've said before, I'm okay with being plain to most people. That does not bother me at all. But being rejected as not physically good enough for someone you have feelings for? Jesus, that blows. About as much as hearing "I like your personality so much, I just want to be friends with it." Great. So, my personality is mediocre and my looks aren't worth a damn. What does that even leave me?

Do you know how long it's been since a guy that I was interested in was also interested in me? 6-8 years, depending on how you want to keep track of that. With all my friends getting into these long term relationships or at the very least dating, it's hard not to question what is wrong with me. I can come up with a short but detailed list of what is.

It's exhausting caring about this, it's not even a real problem, so I tell myself some things that make me feel like s*** in the moment but ultimately make me feel better overall. All of which more or less amount to: That kind of happiness is not meant for you so find your happiness elsewhere.

I don't know, it helps me shift my priorities, makes me happier, and I only tend to have problems when I go over a certain happiness threshold. Because when I'm too happy, I get more confident and when I'm more confident, I think there are things about me that a guy might find appealing enough to want. All of which completely goes against the fact that...that kind of happiness is not meant for me.

as for the losing weight thingy, what's been working for me is: skip fancy diets, don't over or undereat. you don't have to give up all the things you enjoy either. if you have a craving, fill it. (if you just give up the foods you enjoy that are fattening, eventually you'll give in and gorge yourself on it) try to cut portion size down a little bit, avoid snacking as much as possible (i eat when i'm bored, so i have to really try to avoid it. i didn't realize how much i was eating because i was bored!) try to avoid soda. i used to have one or two a day, i've made it to one or two a week. it's more of a reward for me now. if you're unhappy, you're doing it wrong

Weight loss...eh, I only care about that because it tends to make other people happy that I fix my weight. I don't think I'm unhealthy or unattractive the way I am until I get slapped with the fact that everyone else thinks otherwise. By everyone else, I am being hyperbolic and clearly only mean persistent naysayers.

The overeating and undereating comments were meant with regards to making me feel better mentally, by the way. Emotional eating.

Right now I'm watching portions, eating decently, exercising, never drink soda outside of restaurants and go to restaurants once every few months at the most. I still eat sweets but not like I have in the past, I don't deny myself anything I want, just watch the portions. I'm doing the right things there, I think. I'm not losing weight, really.

But besides the 21st, the next time I see the doctor who took my body fat percentage, I should be okay again in a few days. By then I'll have myself perfectly convinced that I never stood a chance with the boy anyway so who gives a flying f*** if he thinks I'm unattractive.

[starlooker]

All of which more or less amount to: That kind of happiness is not meant for you so find your happiness elsewhere.

I know that this is one of those people in relationships telling you something, so that might make my credibility kind of shot from the beginning. Except. That was pretty well my philosophy for years.

And... it pretty much worked for me.

Here's the thing. I'm not saying, "It worked for me because I gained so much confidence that I became attractive to the Opposite Sex and now I'm Married and Pregnant, so don't give up! Atta girl, you'll get there!" Because that's not what I mean. What I mean is this: Maybe you'll meet someone who subjectively finds you perfect, and maybe you won't, and either way, you can be okay.

I mean, I was pretty goddamn successful at singledom (I like to think, anyhow). Do not get me wrong, I am very happy where I am in life. But life did not have to take me here. I could've skipped out on the party where I met Donny very easily; I could very easily be building my life around a different type of happiness. And I very truly believe that would be fine. Honestly, being in a relationship and changing my identity to fit that was extraordinarily difficult for me -- and in some ways, that was a good thing. Because the years before that were not spent longing for a radically different life or letting myself feel that my life was somehow an illegitimate version of adulthood. Despite all the societal messages to the contrary.

Keep your philosophy. Just strengthen the part where you're looking for happiness elsewhere. Because if relationship is not the ambition, you have to find something that is.

(Hope this is not too intrusive, and please, please do not read this as me saying that you are not attractive/could not be in a relationship because that is not what I think and is not my point at all.)

[Gravity Defier]

So much progressive, independent reasoning going on, I don't know what to do with it all. Especially since it's the direction I'll ideally go. Eventually. *grin* The mentally "chewing on it" process is under way.



And it was taken in the spirit it was intended. :)

[mr_thebrain]

i actually knew my comments would be falling on deaf eyes. i'm married after all, i'm pretty sure anything i say is either misunderstood (usually on purpose) or unheard.

[Gravity Defier]

*groan* It wasn't unheard or even misunderstood (I don't think).

It kind of boils down to me wanting to hear nothing more than "You can live a happy life without men being a factor."

Because I really am tired of caring about that being a factor. It's exhausting, frustrating, and I can't please any of them, anyway.

[mr_thebrain]

You can live a happy life without men being a factor.

i kinda thought that goes without saying. except for a rare few of us, men are pretty lame. unnecessary even. there are some pretty good ones though. i won't name names.

i might add that the only person that anyone needs in order to find happiness is themselves.




besides, there's always women!

[steph]

You can live a happy life without men being a factor.

i kinda thought that goes without saying. except for a rare few of us, men are pretty lame. unnecessary even. there are some pretty good ones though. i won't name names.

i might add that the only person that anyone needs in order to find happiness is themselves.




besides, there's always women!

Joshy, I <3 you.

[Syphon the Sun]

besides, there's always women!

Oooh-la-la.

[mr_thebrain]

Joshy, I <3 you.

shhhhh! i said no names!

[steph]

Joshy, I <3 you.

shhhhh! i said no names!

Wait, what...did I miss something? Do you not want your name on pweb?

[mr_thebrain]

Yup, you missed something.

[steph]

Dang it! So, am I not supposed to use your name on here?

[steph]

Dang it! So, am I not supposed to use your name on here?

ETA: Is this because you said no one gives you nicknames? You've been Joshy for so many years to me, it's just natural. (Why the heck did I start calling you Joshy, anyway? I have no idea now.)

[Syphon the Sun]

Is it really "edited to add" when you post a new reply?

[mr_thebrain]

Of course you can call me joshy. I think it was due to a conversation we had that I explained what people call me. My sister and mother call me joshy.

I hate having to explain such a lame joke. But. I had earlier mentioned that there are a few good guys, but I wouldn't name names. Then you named my name... sorry, I was being funny. Kinda.

[steph]

Is it really "edited to add" when you post a new reply?

Dang it!!! I used the wrong button.

Ok, Joshy, i get it now. And you ARE one of the good guys in the world, so I will name you by name. Ha!

[Gravity Defier]

Joshy, I <3 you.

shhhhh! i said no names!

Wait, what...did I miss something? Do you not want your name on pweb?

I was laughing disproportionately hard at this, and the continued confused posts to follow, while at work. I totally got it before the explanation came in.


However, back to the matter at hand. This thread is making me feel increasingly lame, just as an aside -not because of anyone else, just me- so I'll probably/hopefully shut the fudge up after this.

Holy cow, did the last few posts I've made seem probably not directly related to the original emo-thon. Let me try to connect the dots.

I bring up my weight/appearance more often than your average person, most likely, but it almost seems as if the people around me bring it up more. Sometimes good (crazy patrons calling me beautiful, which is nice to hear but kind of creepy), sometimes bad (relatives, well meaning friends) but all pointing to the fact that, in this culture, looks matter. "If you just did your hair this way..." or "If you dressed better..." or "Maybe lose a few pounds..." or "Your face...makeup would cover that." Backhanded compliments, oh yes.

Okay, for what purpose do you want me to do that? Because it's not until I get too much of those conversations that I start feeling s***** again; otherwise, I think being plain is fine. To attract someone? Ah, yes, to attract someone. That is one of my big issues. That is what leads me to believing that I'm not good enough for anyone. That unless I look a certain way, no one is going to want me.

It just so happens that all the men in my life mention some truly unobtainable-for-me ideal and as much as I don't want to do the pointing fingers at whose fault that is, between them, Hollywood, and corporations, they're making people think that this so-called ideal is ideal and they're making a whole lot of women like me feel like s*** for not being in that very small group. It's why I refuse, adamantly, to feed into that. Are supermodels attractive? Yep. Do I care to give that whole image more power? Nope. Ask me what's sexy and I'm going to start pointing to beautiful women who are a bit more realistic and no less sexy because of it.

Now, the thing I definitely don’t want to do is villainize men. I have done that in the past, quite a bit and probably the quite recent past at that, and it was wrong of me to do. It made me feel better, not going to lie, but it solves nothing in the long run.

Re: we are our own happiness factories and you can live without a man and be a-okay, I don’t disagree with either of those sentiments. But general-you can’t get to happy without being honest with yourself about what you want in life and for me, even aside from all the pressure I feel from outside sources, that includes a significant other.

Do I think that should be priority number one/my life’s ambition for happiness? No. Will I consider my life complete should I ever start dating? No. Am I saying it’s impossible to be happy without that? No. But to ignore that want and pretend like it doesn’t exist because it is something that has never and feels like it will never work out for me is as equally wrong as pinning all my happiness on it.

I sure wish I could be the great feminine ideal and say that single life is what I want, that I’m enjoying the s*** out of it, that it’s how I work best, that it is easy and natural but there is that little voice in me saying, “It’s good the way it is, I’m content with this, but I think it could be better.”

I want to have someone by my side to share all the little s*** that, independent of them, makes me happy. Friends can be that to an extent but anyone who tells me it is the same is bullshitting themselves and me.


So when I say “That kind of happiness is not meant for you so find your happiness elsewhere.”, it is not me being enlightened, forward, independent, or even simply correct, much as I'd like to pretend it is; it is me being upset that this thing I want truly looks like it’s not a part of my life plan and not because I don’t want it but because it doesn’t want me, so I had better convince myself that happiness elsewhere is my only option, ever. If it never happens for me, come the end of my life, I will feel like my life was less than it could have been, that my accomplishments don't mean any less but that I still missed out.

I’m sorry if it’s wrong to own up to feeling that way. I’m sorry if it makes me pathetic or lame or codependent or undoes the 60s or is backwards. I’m not asking for a man to come into my life and support me financially (not happening) or to get me pregnant (might happen, depends on the man) or to propose marriage (less likely to happen than the pregnancy thing but also depends on the man) or recreate chick flicks (unrealistic). I just want someone I like spending time with to have my back, let me have theirs, and to have some wicked fun hot monkey sex in between all that.

[steph]

Joshy, I <3 you.

shhhhh! i said no names!

Wait, what...did I miss something? Do you not want your name on pweb?

I was laughing disproportionately hard at this, and the continued confused posts to follow, while at work. I totally got it before the explanation came in.

Hey, in my defense, my brain stopped working about 6 years ago. Wait, that's not a very good defense. Um....I'm really tired? Or maybe I was just particularly dense today.

[mr_thebrain]

But general-you can’t get to happy without being honest with yourself about what you want in life and for me, even aside from all the pressure I feel from outside sources, that includes a significant other.

i've found that there is a huge difference between happy and not lonely.
i have a spectrum here. i went from just a few months ago being happy and not lonely to being unhappy and lonely to being lonely and generally happy. there are things i'd like to change in my life, sure. hell, i'd love to be rich, and not have to worry about things like paying bills, or having a down payment so i can have a house and not have to go back to living with family or getting an apartment. i'd love to be thinner especially with having to get back into dating. so on and so forth. but, when i'm honest with myself, i have to say that in general, aside from being painfully lonely, i'm pretty happy. i love my dogs, have a good family, i'm in decent health, i love my job. i'm finally paying some bills off. i have friends. the list goes on. but i'm still lonely. i miss cuddling at night, or having someone to sit and watch tv with. or go on dates with, or be generally attracted to. it makes me sad. but it's only a portion of my life, and the other portions are happy.

Hey, in my defense, my brain stopped working about 6 years ago. Wait, that's not a very good defense. Um....I'm really tired? Or maybe I was just particularly dense today. Confused

i'm kind of surprised i didn't feel like messing with you more! i can be a jerk like that.

[steph]

Hey, in my defense, my brain stopped working about 6 years ago. Wait, that's not a very good defense. Um....I'm really tired? Or maybe I was just particularly dense today. Confused

i'm kind of surprised i didn't feel like messing with you more! i can be a jerk like that.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have taken it as you being a jerk...more like you luuuurve me so much you wanted to mess with me.

[mr_thebrain]

there is that! fine, next time i'll be merciless!

[steph]

Dang it! What did I set myself up for?!?

[Gravity Defier]

The problem with having a natural, less than glamorous reaction to anything on Pweb is I then have to go and defend it. At least, that's what it can start to feel like. I say that with the hopes that people understand I'm trying to not take things the wrong way, even though this entire huge conversation I started is based on something that is obviously a sore point for me, and thus more likely to cause defensiveness.

i've found that there is a huge difference between happy and not lonely.

How are we defining lonely?


It pains me a little that people here seem to think I either am not happy, haven't been or known happiness, have a hard time finding happiness, or don't understand how it differs from not being lonely.

That is to be expected, I suppose, based on my posts but scary as it might be to contemplate, these past 4 months have been some of my happiest in years. They're not as great as my life was in 2007, when I was on the brink of independence as far as living situations are concerned, when I worked a job that stressed me out like crazy but that I loved more than words can say, and when I was romantically interested in absolutely no one but they're not so terribly far off either.

I am not thrilled with living at home. In fact, I hate it. My mom's boyfriend is loud and, as far as I'm concerned, he's verbally abusive and has anger management issues. Since it is hotter than sin and I have no vehicle, I have no spending money, and nowhere worth spending money anyway, I stay at home a lot and in my room specifically to avoid him. It kind of sucks but it's not permanent.

I'm likewise not thrilled with working conditions - but I do my best to avoid my coworkers, as they are the ones bringing me down as of late, and yeah, the patrons are kind of pricks, too, so I guess working conditions aren't great all around and can't be entirely avoided. BUT, ask my coworkers and quite a few of the patrons who the bubbly, nice one is at work and you're going to get fingers pointed my way. It's not fake and not just because I have to be polite as part of my job. I am capable of trying to make the best of crap situations, plain and simple.

But I am happy, as happy as I can be, I think. I have little things that help me achieve that. Dog walks, yard work, movies, books, crafts, etc. It may look unimpressive from the outside but when I get to Chicago, the big change isn't necessarily going to be what I do but over how much freedom I feel in doing it how I want, when I want, with no one at all to answer to. That is my biggest happiness: control and freedom and independence.



I don't consider myself a lonely person, as a rule. I don't get why the first assumption people seem to make is that I must be lonely to want an SO. It's almost like saying someone must be lonely if they want more regular friends, when really, they just might want more of a specific type of relationship. Quite frankly, I often times feel overwhelmed and over-peopled.



I think people are getting lost in the part of my sadness that I didn't mean to take center stage, that is not the biggest part of my problem but shifted to the focus because it was just the latest thing in a string of things and something I danced around because it involved someone on this board. My sadness started with people telling me negative things about myself. That is an exterior issue/force. That is not me dumping on myself and being unhappy with me because I don't know what makes me happy. That is other people pushing their expectations on me.


Was that too defensive?

[mr_thebrain]

i don't know if it was too defensive. but i really was just responding to the one paragraph you wrote. cuz you basically said the happiness you were longing for was in the form of a SO.

anyway sorry to have gotten your back up. it was unintentional

[Gravity Defier]

Nothing to be sorry about. There's been a lot of concern, sympathy, whatever you'd like to call it, over my recent meltdown and that's much appreciated. I made that opening statement because I think I'm coming across as more defensive than I intend to as I'm attempting to explain things. It wasn't so much that I was feeling like my hackles were up as I was hoping to prevent others from assuming they were.

Or maybe I should say, the more I try to explain, the more it feels like I'm letting people down, because they're seeing me in a not too flattering light and the fear of rejection I'm surely projecting is coming across as defensiveness.

I've been happy. I don't like being told I'm ugly or fat. I don't like the boy I like, when my defenses are down, telling me all the females he find attractive are nothing like me when I have no idea how he actually feels about me, which makes it easy to believe he's telling me that because he wants me to know what he likes is not me. I was down for a bit, conflated the one message with the other, until it became "Those people who say I'm ugly/fat are onto something! The boy doesn't like me because he sees me the same way they do, thus all boys I like will likely feel the same." It got blown way out of proportion, by me, people responded out of concern, and I feel like an ass for the whole thing.

I don't know.

[Eaquae Legit]

Negative messages SUCK. And the brain is really, REALLY good at filing them away for future reference, unlike positive messages.

*hug*

[Gravity Defier]

Negative messages SUCK. And the brain is really, REALLY good at filing them away for future reference, unlike positive messages.

*hug*

Most perfect response ever; supportive without agreeing or disagreeing.

*hug and <3*