Dear Diary/Journal/Bob 3.0

[starlooker]

Thanks.

The doctor's office called back after my husband called them on Thursday to find out what was going on with the prior authorization. (I did not want to call for fear I'd end up yelling at the poor receptionist.) She did hear me talking/crying in the background, though. After the first conversation, she called back and had apparently had the doctors arrange for my husband to pick up samples. So, have been back on the antidepressant for a few days now. Fortunately, this is one of the newer ones that doesn't take forever to start to kick in. The fill-in for my PCP also was referring me for a psychiatric consult, which I have to cancel because they scheduled me not with the person he named, but with another doctor who I happen to know professionally and am not comfortable seeing on a number of levels.

As far as therapy goes, well, *shrug*, I'll ask some trusted colleagues for people they'd recommend tomorrow.

Found a link through the American Association of Suicidology for a listserve for clinicians who have survived the suicide of a client. Don't know if it's active at all, but even if it has just some archives or something it can't hurt.

At work, trying to work. Scared to open my email. But, really, right now that's just as well as I know what I need to do and don't need to look at a bunch of emails reminding me to do it. Any news will have to wait for the morning.

Feeling rather mixed up about having posted my previous post. I love pweb, I trust people here, and I still kind of hate having how horrible things have gotten out there. Debating heavily editing/deleting it. It's a little embarrassing. It's not a pretty picture of myself. I guess I'm hoping that most people here will know/understand that the reason it's embarrassing and scary and all of those things are that it's a very unusual picture of myself. I mean, the overwhelmed and anxious is normal. The complete freakout and shutdown are not.

(And I feel a bit like I've taken over Bob, lately. Apologies for that.)

[Gravity Defier]

Kirsten, first, I love you. Second, if you feel the need to edit, I think that is okay and it's also okay to feel the way you do about posting it in the first place but I want you to know that it does not, in any way, shape, or form, change how I think of you, see you, or feel about you and quite honestly, there is very little that you could ever do or say that would change that. So, for me, it could also stay and that would be equally okay. Third, there's nothing, not a damn thing, to apologize for in coming in here and using this thread. Not now, not ever. Fourth, be well, however you can, however you can get there, and however long it takes. Fifth, I don't have a number five but four didn't seem complete/rounded out.

*hug*

[Young Val]

Kirsten, as someone who has been far more vulnerable on Pweb than I ever rationally intended to be, I can totally understand the embarrassment that comes after posting something so intimate and complicated.

I truly hold you in the highest respect and admire and like you for so many reasons. I think you usually present your best self here, a self that is smart and funny and kind and creative. And I don't think a post showing other sides of yourself can ever diminish that fact. I know you to be capable and strong, and if from time to time you experience moments in which you feel otherwise, please know that it doesn't override the person you are to the world.

If you need to delete or edit those posts, then please do what best suits your needs. But know that for me, at least, they have not lessened my opinion of you at all, and if anything I feel even more admiration for you, knowing how very difficult your job can be, and how deeply it touches you.

[Eaquae Legit]

Kirsten, first, I love you. Second, if you feel the need to edit, I think that is okay and it's also okay to feel the way you do about posting it in the first place but I want you to know that it does not, in any way, shape, or form, change how I think of you, see you, or feel about you and quite honestly, there is very little that you could ever do or say that would change that. So, for me, it could also stay and that would be equally okay. Third, there's nothing, not a damn thing, to apologize for in coming in here and using this thread. Not now, not ever. Fourth, be well, however you can, however you can get there, and however long it takes. Fifth, I don't have a number five but four didn't seem complete/rounded out.

*hug*

All of this. Bob is here when you need to write! He doesn't judge! It doesn't matter at all how frequently (or not) you write!

There's no way this could ever reduce my respect for you. If anything, it increases it! Do what you need, like Alea says, and be well. Whatever you need.

[Rei]

I cannot be more eloquent than those before me. You needn't worry about losing my respect in the least and do what you need to do for yourself. Bob is a friend to all, and we care about you.

[powerfulcheese04]

I truly hold you in the highest respect and admire and like you for so many reasons. I think you usually present your best self here, a self that is smart and funny and kind and creative. And I don't think a post showing other sides of yourself can ever diminish that fact. I know you to be capable and strong, and if from time to time you experience moments in which you feel otherwise, please know that it doesn't override the person you are to the world.

If you need to delete or edit those posts, then please do what best suits your needs. But know that for me, at least, they have not lessened my opinion of you at all, and if anything I feel even more admiration for you, knowing how very difficult your job can be, and how deeply it touches you.

I agree with all of this. Bob (and pweb in general) are here whenever you need.

[starlooker]

Thank you all. That means a lot to me. I'm still half-thinking of editing, but it doesn't feel as necessary. I got teary reading those things, but in a good way.

I'm doing more journaling now. And painting. Trying to express. And trying to balance it with the never-ending paperwork that must needs doing. There's a case manager at work that I've gotten fairly close to, who I told about my Thursday meltdown. She was very encouraging and helpful -- she'd seen me in a team meeting Wednesday and knew something was really wrong.

Feel tired and melancholy, but not nearly as frantic, today. Thinking about Aslan telling Lucy in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader that no one is allowed to know what might have been. I'm still scared of what might be, though. It's paralyzing. Doing nothing might be wrong, doing something might be wrong -- all of it. But I am not going to give up and I am not going to do my work based solely on fear. There can be joy. And sorrow. All those things. Mental health is not about being positive or optimistic or happy all the time. It's about being able to experience and appreciate a wide range of emotion -- including joy and whimsy and gratification and grief and loss and sadness -- and still be one's self. And I am going to fight my instinct to crawl into a dark hole somewhere and pretend not to exist. Avoidance is my mortal enemy. I can be more than this.

[Disappeared]

I'm a complete newbie to PWeb..
(& so don't know you at all)

..but having read your post while just browsing around, I feel like I just have to reply.

I myself struggled through months..
(or years, depending on how you look at it)

..like that at work..

..feeling absolutely miserable & stressed out -- but thinking that I just had to be working - and that I could work through it - just because.

It kept getting worse & worse. I really felt like it wasn't worth living - many times.

I had been seeing a therapist, but I had stopped - and in the midst of such depression, I just didn't manage to deal with the issue of having one when I needed it.

I started mumbling about needing to take some leave -- but again just didn't have what it took to make it happen.

~Happily~ my management took official steps to make it perfectly clear that I would get fired if I didn't take FMLA leave.

So I did.

Turns out that employers are required to give an employee FMLA leave if a professional therapist/doctor says that they need it.

It's unpaid, but my company has (it turned out) a policy of continuing to pay employees on FMLA leave full pay for as long as they need!
(up to 6 months)

...and they have to hold your job for you for that long.

What I was surprised to find was that once the stress of day-to-day work was gone, I felt free - for the first time in my life, actually - and able to think about things much more rationally.

So my very strong suggestions are:

Find as good a psychiatrist as you can. He will figure out what meds to prescribe, & help you get them right.

Take some leave.
Even if it's w/o pay, it sounds to me like it is crucial that you do that.

Be good to yourself; don't beat on yourself.
I found very helpful this book on Mindfulness: Emotional Alchemy http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Alchemy ... 178&sr=1-1

Try to really realize that life truly isn't long enough to waste any of it being unhappy.

[powerfulcheese04]

Disappeared,

Was that direct at all of us or at Kirsten (starlooker) in specific?

Either way, it's a little judgemental for Bob, which is meant to be a judgement-free space to be at your worst (or best). Sometimes advice is appreciated, sometimes it isn't... and it's generally considered in good form to make sure it's wanted before throwing it out there.

[Dr. Mobius]

I cannot be more eloquent than those before me. You needn't worry about losing my respect in the least and do what you need to do for yourself. Bob is a friend to all, and we care about you.

What he said.

[starlooker]

Disappeared --

I appreciate you sharing your experience, and I'm glad you were able to take FMLA and get what you needed. I am definitely not in your situation for a variety of reasons which I'm not going into now.

I appreciate your concern and the good intentions of your advice; however, I think if you did know me a little better, you'd know I was well aware of my various options when it comes to medical leave, therapy, psychiatric medications, etc.

Also -- I'm sorry, when we're talking about misery kicked off by the suicide of another person, I think characterizing unhappiness as a waste of time is a tad simplistic.

[Eaquae Legit]

Kirsten, it's been so long, I'd all but forgotten. I LOVE your art. If you find yourself in a suitable place, show me some more?

[Disappeared]

Well, I want to say "Wow!" - in the sense that I finally wouldn't get a negative response (as I did at Hatrack) -- but I'm feeling like that's more exclaiming/complaining than I ought to do here.

I was very moved by starlooker's post - and I sincerely thought that given the experiences that I have had, I could say some stuff that might really help - and do so in a situation that sounded like it might need serious help urgently.

As to being judgemental, I disagree. To me that term denotes moral judgement, & the only judgement I was applying was factual.

Just to say, I just read right through the whole Ender series - and loved it so much - and enjoyed OSC's positive sense of life, etc. so much - that I wanted to connect with some other people who had had a similar experience.

I have almost zero experience with Boards, but it sure is seeming to me that these are composed of effectively long-standing and tight-knit families - and outsiders just aren't going to be welcomed in very quickly.

I was just trying to help - and thought I had done something positive.

I wish you all the best.

(You should see the post I was writing on abortion!)

[neo-dragon]

You know, I get so disappointed when people show up, make a post or two that doesn't get the reception that they're hoping for, and then decide that the community is too hostile to outsiders.

My advice: stick around. Post whatever you feel like. Don't worry about what others think. If you step on a few toes by mistake that's just part of being new. This place is for anyone who wants to be here and isn't a total asshat.

[Disappeared]

Thanks for the advice, n-d - but sorry to make you feel disappointed.

I will use your advice to gird my loins up for some more participation -- but it may be that my combination of hyper "sensitivity" and extreme views - and relative lack of "socialization" - makes it not hopeful.

[starlooker]

Hi again Disappeared,

I'm sorry if I came across as ungrateful and/or snippy yesterday evening. I probably should have waited till the morning to respond.

Even though this is a public forum, and I know that technically anyone can see what I write, it is a relatively small community and so I think I was in part just plain startled to have someone I don't know replying in Bob. And, like Kimmie said, generally the norms that have grown around Bob refrain from advice-giving, so I was double-startled and got a bit defensive, especially since I was feeling so vulnerable with what I'd said.

Please know, and I do mean this from the heart, that I am grateful that you reached out to me and also that you shared your own difficult experience. It's a new community to you, and in doing that you were also making yourself vulnerable, and I should have been more aware of that. I am now, and I'm sorry for not responding more sensitively.

I also understand, I think, where you're coming from with the whole "life is too short to be unhappy" thing (which was, honestly, the thing I read as being most judgmental). I see people frequently (particularly teenagers) who remind me of myself at different difficult points in my life, and I want very badly for them to be able to realize that things do not have to be so difficult, and it is worth it to make the changes to improve things. And, then, I have to remember that it's also hard to see that when you are feeling so miserable and stuck.

I do hope you don't stop posting on account of this. It's hard to be a new person in a small town, but we're really quite a healthy group. Think of it as an anthropology project for awhile. I know you've been reading old posts and things and trying to familiarize yourself -- which is GREAT -- but, even so, the first forays into the field are naturally somewhat awkward. I don't think I really know anyone on pweb, even the long-term members, who felt 100% great about their first encounters. Shoot, I came quite close to leaving after two days of posting because I was so mad (it was a much more heated time). And now I've been here for 7.5 years and it's very much a safe haven, source of entertainment, and generally good part of my life.

[Disappeared]

What a sweet note! Thank you so much!

I've spent an awful lot of time being miserable - and recently when I contacted a friendly former co-worker, she shared that she had lost a lot of people over the past year, & that that had made her really realize how important it is to make sure that one does everything he can to make his days and hours happy rather than sad. That helped me a lot -- bec. lotsa the time, I've seen that my attitude like that can make all the difference. I tend to be too passive and hope that someone else will rush in & solve my problems - so lotsa the time I just need to slap myself up side o' the head and deal with forging my own happiness.

I do - now - realize that you had an experience that was enormously different from everyday trials & tribulations, & so I saw how my advice could've come across as shallow.

Sorry for your loss.

And re advice: I used to get in allsortsa trouble with my wife for reacting that way (analytically rather than just understandingly & empathetically) to her emotional states or whatever..
..but she finally accepted that that's just the way my brain has always worked (I am a guy after all -- and 6 years at MIT didn't diminish that in the least!
(& I learned - slowly - to be more what she wanted/needed in those times)

Thanks again.

[Jayelle]

Hey Bob (and, frankly, all of pweb),

I'm dealing with some stuff. Anger issues that have surfaced in postpartum - especially with my kids. I have always had a bit of a temper, but it's coming out stronger these days and... well, I'm dealing. Sorry if you get caught in the crossfire, pweb. I rarely get mad on this board. I took a break for a couple of days, and now I feel better.
In some ways, life is getting better here, I'm making friends, I even have people to celebrate my birthday with, but it's still lonely and I miss my old life.

-JL

[mr_thebrain]

i'm totally with you on the whole recent anger issues. while i can't say mine has anything to do with childbirth ya know since i'm a dude... and i have no kids.

still i have noticed a lot more recently (in the past year or so) i've been having to choke down some pretty serious rage. i definitely don't let it show on the surface, i'm very good with that. but when it happens it's always like way more than what is warranted for the situation. complete overkill. and i totally know it at the time. and thank goodness i know how to deal with those sorts of feelings. anyway, i just wanted to say that i can relate to anger issues.

[Luet]

*hugs Jan*

I can't say I totally understand since I don't have kids but I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope that your newish group of friends includes somebody that you can open up to about stuff like this.

[Young Val]

Dear Bob,

My dad and his girlfriend of 10 years broke up this weekend. I'm distraught. I loved her, and loved the two of them together. They were always very happy and I have no idea what happened (I don't think my dad knows what happened, either).

I'm having major flashbacks to my parents' divorce, and am very worried about my father, who was deeply, deeply depressed in the aftermath of that. I'm also sad because now Karlene won't be a presence in my life anymore, and she's been really wonderful to have around.

I'm upset across the board, and cried and cried last night, probably even more than I would have because there are so many other things that I'm equally upsest about but haven't allowed myself to deal with, including:

-Today is my last day at the State. Tomorrow I join the nation's ranks of unemployed.

-Small Press was supposed to get in touch at the end of last week regarding which of the 8 of us they wanted to call back for second interviews. The week came and went and I didn't hear anything. After following up twice, they got back to me, apologized, and said they still hadn't made a decision and haven't contacted anyone. They said they'd be in touch, but didn't say when. STRESS.

-David is still in a significant amount of pain from his neck injury.

-and on and on and on. Can't focus. Can't articulate. ARGH.

[starlooker]

*hugs Kelly and Jan*

Hang in there. Much love.

Dear Bob,

Over. Freaking. Whelmed. Must work. Must write. Don't wanna. Argh.

[steph]

*hugs all my wonderful pweb friends*

I'm too tired (boo jet lag!) to put together nice responses on my feelings for all of you in here that are struggling, but know that I love you and I think you are all amazing!

[Rei]

Dear Bob,

Today will probably be an interesting day at work. Here's hoping things go well and that I don't do anything foolish.

~Rei

[starlooker]

Dear Bob,

Interesting thing happened. I was processing with my supervisor a couple of days ago, and explaining that I really had little anger towards him. When I did have anger, it would quickly turn to sympathy, then sadness. She nodded and then told me that I needed to not have anger towards myself, either. I laughed slightly because that idea just struck me as impossible and absurd. I then got very, very teary-eyed. I hadn't noticed, but even though I'm not as full of self-loathing as I used to be, I am very seldom not angry with myself. About this and a million other things. It's just become something I'm so used to that I didn't notice it or really think about it much. So. Insight. Good to know.

[Young Val]

Dear Bob,

Small press said thanks, but no thanks.

Ok, then.

[Jayelle]

Oh, Kelly. That sucks so much. *hugs*

[starlooker]

Kelly, I am so mad and sad and frustrated for you. Many hugs and much, much support.

[Rei]

((((((Kelly))))))

[LilBee91]

Aw, I'm sorry. *lots of hugs*

[Gravity Defier]

I have nothing of comfort to say but please allow me to mention anyway how sorry I am and how stupid this decision was on their part. *hugs*

[Luet]

*huge hugs for Kelly*

Bob,
I went to a wedding tonight (yes, Alea, I will post a pic tomorrow) and the two of them were there. It seemed like they were everywhere. It's the smallest venue that I have been to at the same time as them in about four years. I really tried to have fun despite that fact. I fast danced with the kids. Mark and I slow danced and did some swing dancing. I talked with friends. But when it came time to desert and 'he' was helping to hand out the pieces of cake, I asked my SiL to go get a piece for me. Walking up to him for cake would have just been too much. I haven't looked him in the face or spoken to him in five years. Why can't they just go away?

[Eaquae Legit]

Dear Bob,

My parents sold their house. I am kind of in shock. Lived there almost my whole life, 25 years. Even when I've been away, it's been home. They went from "we want to sell this year" to "sold" in... a month and a half? And I won't be going home in the spring, so I don't get to say my goodbyes.

Poor dog is totally confused. Who are all these strangers I smell in my house? What's going on?

I feel rather adrift, and I wish we had gin in the house.

Good on them, though. For a fixer-upper, they got well over their asking price, so that is great. Huge, huge lot in a great location can't have hurt, nor the pool.

Yay?

[Rei]

Dear Bob,

Work stuff really isn't working out, so I'm back hunting. I'm very tired of this.

~Rei

[mr_thebrain]

sorry to hear that. but i've been there.

are you keeping your job until you find another one or just leaving and then searching?