Near Death Experiences

[CezeN]

What are your ideas on them?

I mean, I'm pretty sure they can't be explained by science.

[jotabe]

I mean, I'm pretty sure they can't be explained by science.

Spoke too soon, son

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_death_experience
And more specifically:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_death ... psychology

[CezeN]

>.>
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/thread

[Rei]

I've gotta say, of the main one that I remember, all I can recall is something along the lines of "kick, fight, bite". That, and a whole series of blank spots and a confusion as to the order in which things happened, which can probably be written off as shock

[CezeN]

I mean, I'm pretty sure they can't be explained by science.

Spoke too soon, son

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_death_experience
And more specifically:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_death ... psychology

What about a near death experience when brain dead?

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html

That would mean that, in her case, it wasn't specifically a result of neurons or anything brain related.

[jotabe]

Well, the web has a supernatural bias. It's a good idea to keep our intellectual guard up in such places.

In any case, a brain isn't like an electric circuit that has on and off states. Chemistry works at all times, and it's chemistry that fuels the brain electric currents. When you have flat EEG, it's just a bunch of cortical circuits that stop working. Properly speaking, death isn't an abrupt switch-off of brain activity.

Assuming that the witness is reliable, there are many pre and post-sleep fantasies that involve things as said by her. And the memories of those fantasies very often intertwine with the fuzzy recordings of half-awake memories the patient gains after or before the surgery, creating the illusion of a full dream that would happen during the near-death.

[CezeN]

Well, the web has a supernatural bias. It's a good idea to keep our intellectual guard up in such places.

In any case, a brain isn't like an electric circuit that has on and off states. Chemistry works at all times, and it's chemistry that fuels the brain electric currents. When you have flat EEG, it's just a bunch of cortical circuits that stop working. Properly speaking, death isn't an abrupt switch-off of brain activity.

Assuming that the witness is reliable, there are many pre and post-sleep fantasies that involve things as said by her. And the memories of those fantasies very often intertwine with the fuzzy recordings of half-awake memories the patient gains after or before the surgery, creating the illusion of a full dream that would happen during the near-death.

There was also a video documenting the whole thing. Or at least, I saw part of a youtube video of it.

Notable neuropsychiatrist Peter Fenwick disagrees with you.
Furthermore, part of the procedure, operation standstill, was that she would be verifiabley brain dead.

For practical purposes outside the world of academic debate, three clinical tests commonly determine brain death. First, a standard electroencephalogram, or EEG, measures brain-wave activity. A "flat" EEG denotes non-function of the cerebral cortex - the outer shell of the cerebrum. Second, auditory evoked potentials, similar to those [clicks] elicited by the ear speakers in Pam's surgery, measure brain-stem viability. Absence of these potentials indicates non-function of the brain stem. And third, documentation of no blood flow to the brain is a marker for a generalized absence of brain function.

But during "standstill", Pam's brain was found "dead" by all three clinical tests - her electroencephalogram was silent, her brain-stem response was absent, and no blood flowed through her brain.

Quoting part of the youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC48vZ3s ... re=related

We want the metabolic activity of the brain to stop. Every measurable output that the body puts out, really disappears completely. So that you have no measurable neuronal activity, whatsoever.

How would she described the procedures used during her operation, then?

Her remarkably detailed veridical out-of-body observations during her surgery were later verified to be very accurate. This case is considered to be one of the strongest cases of veridical evidence in NDE research because of her ability to describe the unique surgical instruments and procedures used

[jotabe]

i know, i read it, but it all sounds very suspicious. And i am sorry to sound annoying, but no report of that experiment in scientific publications.

It's well outside of my area of expertise, though, so i can't claim knowledge, only educated opinions and guesses. But i need a bit more conclusive evidence that what that page can offer, to swallow it.

[CezeN]

I don't think it was an experiment.
It seems like it was just surgery.

Okay.

[Jebus]

Jota, you're the only atheist religious person I know.

[jotabe]

it's the only way i can stay sane! XD

what are you saying? it isn't working?

[Eaquae Legit]

i know, i read it, but it all sounds very suspicious. And i am sorry to sound annoying, but no report of that experiment in scientific publications.

It's well outside of my area of expertise, though, so i can't claim knowledge, only educated opinions and guesses. But i need a bit more conclusive evidence that what that page can offer, to swallow it.

I'm with Jota on this. You think something with that apparent level of detail and verifiability would make it into a journal somewhere. There's also the question of just how they investigated - the suggestibility of the human brain is notorious.