Philotic Web

So, I've been pondering about this for a while.........well it popped up in my head every once in a while over the past year or so...

What is "death" ?

Literature often personifies it and portrays it as the grim reaper. But that's usually in classical fiction.

We've been taught, since we were young that death is what happens to you when you die. Then what is it, really?

Is it the "next stage" in "life" ?
How do people know that when someone dies, "it's over" ?
What if there's some other place that people go to once they die, or that their soul just drifts along throughout time and space until it decides to come back to "life" ?

And then, why do we fear death? Personally, I think the main reason people fear it is because of the supposed pain that comes with it.
But, how do living people even know whether or not others feel pain when they die? I think the only pain that would be felt would be caused by the action prior to the death.

For example, if you get shot by a gun, the pain your body feels in the moments before you is just the pain of being shot, not of dying.
I mean, people can get killed "silently" can't they? So what pain is there in dying?

I'd like to know what other people have to say about this.

People fear death because of what comes after (or what doesn't). There is something frightening about that uncertainty. It is scary to wonder whether you will end up in Heaven or Hell (if you believe in them), or to think that everything that is you will simply cease (if you don't believe in them). It's not all about pain. If I knew my death would be fast and feel like nothing, I would still fear it.

Death isn't what happens when you die. That's a tautology. Death is what happens when you cease to be alive. What exactly constitutes life, and how do you determine its end... well, that's a different question, and philosophers and bioethicists would be happy to debate it with you.

And then, why do we fear death?

I haven't done everything I've wanted to yet. Nor will I ever, most likely.

In addition to other reasons listed, of course.

So, I've been pondering about this for a while.........well it popped up in my head every once in a while over the past year or so...

What is "death" ?

Death is the state of non-existence. The Bible says that when an "son of earthling man" dies, "his spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground in that day his thoughts do perish" (Psalm 146:3-4) Furthermore, it is a common belief in Christianity that when an animal dies ceases to exist. The Bible says that there is no distinguishing between a man and an animal. They all go to the same place. They cease to exist.-Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

The Bible speaks of death quite plainly. When Jesus Christ resurrected Lazarus after he was dead for days, he did not regal his listeners with tales of an afterlife. (John 11:14, 43-44) Why not? "For the living are concious that they will die but as for the dead, they are concious of nothing at all." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) The dead are not aware of a thing in that state. That is why Jeremiah aptly said that dead men are in "dark places." (Lamentations 3:6) The soul does not live on after death.-Ezekiel 18:4

And then, why do we fear death? Personally, I think the main reason people fear it is because of the supposed pain that comes with it.
But, how do living people even know whether or not others feel pain when they die? I think the only pain that would be felt would be caused by the action prior to the death.

We fear death because we were not created to die. We were created to live forever. God has put the desire to live forever in our hearts.-Ecclesiastes 3:11

For example, if you get shot by a gun, the pain your body feels in the moments before you is just the pain of being shot, not of dying.
I mean, people can get killed "silently" can't they? So what pain is there in dying?

The dying part--passing from life to death in an instant--probably isn't the painful part. The whole "not knowing" part is what scares people. Plus, not knowing how much pain you are going to be in before you die is a big clincher. If I get stabbed in the abdomen, how much pain will I feel until I die? That is what scares people.

Personally, I think the main reason people fear it is because of the supposed pain that comes with it.

Fear of pain and fear of death are two different things. I think that the vast majority of people would be scared if they knew that they would die painlessly in their sleep tonight.

We fear death because we were not created to die. We were created to live forever. God has put the desire to live forever in our hearts.-Ecclesiastes 3:11

From a scientific standpoint we should also consider that in order to survive we obviously had to evolve a survival instinct, and the fear of death is a part of that. We never would have made it this far as a species if we didn't care about one thing above all else: preserving our DNA. That means keeping ourselves alive, having children, and keeping them alive.

I'll admit, the only fears that I have surrounding death would be the means (i.e. the pain before and during that may or may not be there) and the fear of hurting others by dying and unfulfilled dreams. Death, in itself, is not something that I am frightened of, although in another sense, fear might be a good word.

I guess I view death as Dickenson... Because I could not stop for Death, he kindly stopped for me...

Unfulfilled dreams would be my biggest "fear" for death. I honestly have little fear about what comes after (and if there's nothing, I won't exist in a sentient form and therefore won't care). There are things I want to do that I have to do in this imperfect mortality. Although if I died before I did the things I wanted to do, I'd probably be more angry than anything else.

Death is the unknown from which there is no return. You can be scared of going into a dark room, but there is usually the option of running back if it's too much for you. People fear death because, in the typical Western view at least, there is no coming back. Their existence is either over, or they will be somewhere unfamiliar for an undetermined amount of time.

And another reason I fear death (though I view it more as a lack of excitement for rather than actual terror) is the fact that I have at least one friend who would never recover from losing me. Knowing that one's passing could destroy another's life makes death a rather scary prospect.

Plus, not knowing how much pain you are going to be in before you die is a big clincher. If I get stabbed in the abdomen, how much pain will I feel until I die?

I never thought about it that way before, but that does make sense; the amount of pain a person would feel during the time between getting injured and actually dying...I know some poisons that take days to take effect until the person is actually dead, and I bet that would be awful to be in pain for that long.

I'll admit, the only fears that I have surrounding death would be the means (i.e. the pain before and during that may or may not be there) and the fear of hurting others by dying and unfulfilled dreams.

Unfulfilled dreams....also another thing that didn't really jump out at me before. I guess the fact that knowing you'll die without having done what you wanted to do most in life would be terrible, because then you'd be dying with regret.

So then, what about after death? I'm pretty sure people believe in different things that occur after death rather than just judgment day and then your trip to heaven or hell.

I heard from a friend who watched a certain documentary a while ago (I'm unsure of the name) about a science experiment. During the experiment, scientists put a dying man inside a giagantic glass building, kinda like a big transparent cube, in the middle of a field.
There were camers and different kinds of sensors and machines hooked up to the man and around the glass structure.
When the man died, cameras recorded a bright light leaving the body of the man and trying to escape the through the glass to reach the outside. Finally, it was able to crack the glass and escape.

Now, I'm not sure whether I really believe that happened or not, but I do believe in souls and reincarnation.
Would it be possible for a soul to reinhabit a body during birth, so that, in a sense, the soul would be "alive" again?

I heard from a friend who watched a certain documentary a while ago (I'm unsure of the name) about a science experiment. During the experiment, scientists put a dying man inside a giagantic glass building, kinda like a big transparent cube, in the middle of a field.
There were camers and different kinds of sensors and machines hooked up to the man and around the glass structure.
When the man died, cameras recorded a bright light leaving the body of the man and trying to escape the through the glass to reach the outside. Finally, it was able to crack the glass and escape.

I'm going to have to call BS on that one.

I'd have to agree with Rei's comments.

I suppose what strikes me the most is the question of equality. Do our souls retain the outward differences of our bodies - gender, skin colour, body shape, disabilities, and the like?

Or do we retain some degree of difference, either in terms of outward appearances or in terms of our souls?

In all seriousness, the problem with coming back from the dead is by the time you arrive, someone's taken all your stuff.

So that's the origin of the mummy's curse, EL!

This might interest you, neo-dragon. In the early 20th century, there was a debate in France about whether or not guillotined criminals continued to live on for a while post-execution. Scientists took the freshly decapitated heads to labs and conducted experiments such as calling the deceased's name and watching for physical changes such as eye movement or twitches. (Whether these experiments can be considered valid science or not, I don't know and I won't go there.)

For some quality reporting *coughcough* take a look at The Living Severed Head (near the bottom of the page): http://www.cracked.com/article_16721_p2.html.

Well, I'm glad to know I don't have to believe that little experiment anymore....I mean, it was quite odd to hear about that.

Discussing whether or not our souls retain our outward differences....well, I think, when the soul is reincarnated, it would inhabit a bewly born babe, either choose that particular body for it's similiarties to the soul's old body, or it would "shape" it, so it would develop some similarities to that of the soul's old body.

But that's just what I believe, or what I'd like to believe; geneticists would of course say that the outward appearance of everyone is based on heredity.

And then, what about the personality? I think a large part of the personality of a reincarnated soul is based upon the "soul's personality" itself.
So, everytime it's reincarnated, it usually has the same temperment and personality as it did before.

I do believe in souls and reincarnation.

Why? What evidence do you have? I'm not being sarcastic, I really want to know.

The real question is, if you infuse a soul into a statue to make it talk, can it die and what will happen to it?

And will Augustine have Words on the matter (no.23)?

It shall be put on trial for murdering someone.

Hey, the medievals did do just that! It's in the records! As far as they were concerned, inanimate objects were capable of being put on trial for causing the death of living beings.

Just read Strange Histories by Oldridge.

Why? What evidence do you have? I'm not being sarcastic, I really want to know.

Why? I cant say I have any solid evidence that I believe in. And, it's not as though I believe in it completely...I mean, the science nerd part in me is against believing it, so I guess it's more so I want to believe in it.

Thats really the only thing I believe in, because I'm not a religious person, and so, instead, after some books (fiction and non-fiction) containing subjects of reincarnation, I've come to like the idea of it a lot, and in a way believe in it.

No solid evidence so, sorry.

This might interest you, neo-dragon. In the early 20th century, there was a debate in France about whether or not guillotined criminals continued to live on for a while post-execution. Scientists took the freshly decapitated heads to labs and conducted experiments such as calling the deceased's name and watching for physical changes such as eye movement or twitches. (Whether these experiments can be considered valid science or not, I don't know and I won't go there.)

I've always had my doubts about decapitation being instantaneous. I mean, why should it be? I assume that you die when your head is removed because your brain is no longer receiving blood/oxygen and nutrients from your body, but your brain shouldn't just totally shut down the instant it stops getting those things. I think that it's quite possible that you remain conscious for a brief time, which would make decapitation a horrifying way to die.

I believe that death is when your spirit is separated from your body.

In my own opinion, most people are afraid of death not because of pain, but because of the unknown. Even for those that believe we go on to a better place, it can still be frightening because we want more details. Like, will the lines be long? Or will there be a lot of tedious paper work? Scary.

Yeah, that "experiment" is obviously false. I mean, everyone knows spirits can move through walls, so why would it crack the glass? I did hear of real experiments though where they weigh a person as they die, and supposedly it gets lighter. They use that to measure the "weight of a soul." Even though I believe the soul is matter, I don't really think its mass is that easily detectable.

I believe that our spirits look just like our bodies, but perfected. ie: same gender & race, but no disabilities, hair loss, etc. Maybe it makes more sense to say it the other way around: Our bodies look like our spirits, except our physical bodies have imperfections.

I believe our personalities come from and stay with our spirit. Definitely.

I did hear of real experiments though where they weigh a person as they die, and supposedly it gets lighter. They use that to measure the "weight of a soul." Even though I believe the soul is matter, I don't really think its mass is that easily detectable.

Yeah, that one comes up often. Those experiments were also highly dubious, and personally I attribute any loss of mass at death to something mundane like gases escaping.

If there is such a thing as a soul, I don't think that it has any properties of physical matter like mass or the ability to crack glass.

I think that was Swedenborg who did the weighing experiments?

If you lose weight when you die, why am I bigger now than I was before?

Hm... I don't know. Maybe you should give it another try.

Could this be the start of a new weight-loss program?

We could get rid of two of the major problems in America with one fell swoop.

Isn't the only reason why dead bodies weigh less than when they were alive is because the bodies start to whither away and decompose.

Of course, that would be after a considerable amount of time, so then:

attribute any loss of mass at death to something mundane like gases escaping.

I'd have to agree with neo-dragon on that...

Or the bodily excretions that sometimes accompany death...that would certainly cause a bit of weight difference.