Bean: Would YOU be Him?
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Bean: Would YOU be Him?
Hi there. This is my first actual thread, but as a forumer in many other forums, I think I have some experience. But, enough about me.
The question this thread poses is whether or you would be Bean. As most of you know, Bean suffers from a genetic defect called Anton's Key, caused by the malicious genetic manipulation of Bean's embryo by the scientist Volescu.
Also, as many of you know, Bean's "disorder" causes him to be an incredible genius, and with an unlimited amount of neurons growing every week, he can master a language in (most probably) less than a week, and maybe even a day. He can put himself into the places of others and guess what they would do and always be correct about it. He can outsmart Ender in a game of strategy, and he could possibly be the only hope for the new species of humans, "homo lumen" as Anton calls it (Shadow of the Giant, pg. 76), if only he had been trained in biochemistry.
But this disorder does not come without a price. Because of Bean's ever growing brain, his body must grow at an every-increasing rate to keep up with his intense skull-growing. So, he will die around the age of 20, if not earlier.
So, with that said, would you give up 50+ years of your life to be the most intelligent person in the world? Or would you rather stay with the "feeble" mind (compared to Bean's, of course), yet enjoy the life of an 85 year old, or even more?
I, personally, would enjoy being Bean (even at the cost of a very short life). Although I would miss out on many of the joys of life, like marriage (which Bean did, incredibly), or even having children (even though Bean, once again, accomplished this "mission), I would choose Bean's life (although without the horrible beginning). I have always prided myself on being rather smart for my age (and yes, I know the meaning of modesty), but when I read the Shadow Series, I felt that if I could be anyone in any book, it would be Bean, even more than Ender (whose series I also read).
So now I am asking you. Would you be Bean?
The question this thread poses is whether or you would be Bean. As most of you know, Bean suffers from a genetic defect called Anton's Key, caused by the malicious genetic manipulation of Bean's embryo by the scientist Volescu.
Also, as many of you know, Bean's "disorder" causes him to be an incredible genius, and with an unlimited amount of neurons growing every week, he can master a language in (most probably) less than a week, and maybe even a day. He can put himself into the places of others and guess what they would do and always be correct about it. He can outsmart Ender in a game of strategy, and he could possibly be the only hope for the new species of humans, "homo lumen" as Anton calls it (Shadow of the Giant, pg. 76), if only he had been trained in biochemistry.
But this disorder does not come without a price. Because of Bean's ever growing brain, his body must grow at an every-increasing rate to keep up with his intense skull-growing. So, he will die around the age of 20, if not earlier.
So, with that said, would you give up 50+ years of your life to be the most intelligent person in the world? Or would you rather stay with the "feeble" mind (compared to Bean's, of course), yet enjoy the life of an 85 year old, or even more?
I, personally, would enjoy being Bean (even at the cost of a very short life). Although I would miss out on many of the joys of life, like marriage (which Bean did, incredibly), or even having children (even though Bean, once again, accomplished this "mission), I would choose Bean's life (although without the horrible beginning). I have always prided myself on being rather smart for my age (and yes, I know the meaning of modesty), but when I read the Shadow Series, I felt that if I could be anyone in any book, it would be Bean, even more than Ender (whose series I also read).
So now I am asking you. Would you be Bean?
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No. 20 or so years is a ridiculously short life. Being a super genius would be nice and all, but I doubt that it would make me significantly happier. It just doesn't seem worth missing out on so much and suffering an unpleasant death as a freakish giant.
I wouldn't even want to be one of the Godspoken, and suffer OCD-like symptoms to gain enhanced intelligence.
I wouldn't even want to be one of the Godspoken, and suffer OCD-like symptoms to gain enhanced intelligence.
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I didn't even think of the Godspoken as another example. But your right, I would not to be a Godspoken. Because I just wouldn't be able to stand doing those actions constantly. But I figure that some people live very short lives without being a super genius, and I could be one of those people, so why not have the same length life as a super genius?
“It might not be gravity that holds us to Earth, but rather an unknown force with identical properties.â€-Sister Carlotta
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
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OK, who voted the third option?! Tell me, so I can rip your eyes out!!!
Ha! Made you think, didn't I?
Ha! Made you think, didn't I?
“It might not be gravity that holds us to Earth, but rather an unknown force with identical properties.â€-Sister Carlotta
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
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20 something years is good enough for me. You are indefinitely smarter than everyone, so you should be able to make tons of cash or at least swindle others out of their money. No family because you were a science experiment so you don't have them bringing you down. You could trick tons of girls to sleep with you. Who cares if you catch something because you aren't lasting that long anyhow. When you become a giant, you could have a breif NBA career, which then brings in more money and more girls. Not to mention, when you become a giant, you become a giant everywhere(which means more girls). You could probably parlay a porn career off of that as well (more girls, more cash). The only thing that really matters is chicks and cash, and you would have that for days. So, yeah, I'd be Bean. He could have had all of that as well if he wasn't such a weiner.
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Not that it's exactly valid, but does it occur to anyone that for centuries or millennia before now, the average life expectancy was only about 35 years... even without the benefit of being a giant genius? Obviously, it was 'enough' for all of them. Sure, their whole culture was adjusted for that life... and 20 is much less than 35, but if you KNEW you were only going to live 20 years, then you could make some adjustments.
On another note, why do we think that living longer is the 'better' solution? If living longer means living 'less' ... that is, taking fewer risks and such, at what point do we decide to take a shorter life but to live MORE fully? I know I certainly DON'T want to end up sitting in a chair at a retirement home for the last years of my life, not knowing who anyone is and peeing my pants again.
Interesting. I'll say "yes" to the pole, but I don't think Bean's life was the one for me... and I think I would prefer to take HALF of his gift and live to 35 or 40...
On another note, why do we think that living longer is the 'better' solution? If living longer means living 'less' ... that is, taking fewer risks and such, at what point do we decide to take a shorter life but to live MORE fully? I know I certainly DON'T want to end up sitting in a chair at a retirement home for the last years of my life, not knowing who anyone is and peeing my pants again.
Interesting. I'll say "yes" to the pole, but I don't think Bean's life was the one for me... and I think I would prefer to take HALF of his gift and live to 35 or 40...
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The thing about those short average life spans of centuries past is that they're skewed by very high infant mortality rates. I believe the average life span of anyone who managed to live to their first birthday was actually considerably longer.Not that it's exactly valid, but does it occur to anyone that for centuries or millennia before now, the average life expectancy was only about 35 years... even without the benefit of being a giant genius? Obviously, it was 'enough' for all of them. Sure, their whole culture was adjusted for that life... and 20 is much less than 35, but if you KNEW you were only going to live 20 years, then you could make some adjustments.
It didn't seem like Bean's intelligence made him happier or more fulfilled.On another note, why do we think that living longer is the 'better' solution? If living longer means living 'less' ... that is, taking fewer risks and such, at what point do we decide to take a shorter life but to live MORE fully? I know I certainly DON'T want to end up sitting in a chair at a retirement home for the last years of my life, not knowing who anyone is and peeing my pants again.
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The thing about those short average life spans of centuries past is that they're skewed by very high infant mortality rates. I believe the average life span of anyone who managed to live to their first birthday was actually considerably longer.Not that it's exactly valid, but does it occur to anyone that for centuries or millennia before now, the average life expectancy was only about 35 years... even without the benefit of being a giant genius? Obviously, it was 'enough' for all of them. Sure, their whole culture was adjusted for that life... and 20 is much less than 35, but if you KNEW you were only going to live 20 years, then you could make some adjustments.
It didn't seem like Bean's intelligence made him happier or more fulfilled.On another note, why do we think that living longer is the 'better' solution? If living longer means living 'less' ... that is, taking fewer risks and such, at what point do we decide to take a shorter life but to live MORE fully? I know I certainly DON'T want to end up sitting in a chair at a retirement home for the last years of my life, not knowing who anyone is and peeing my pants again.
Good point about the whole skewing by infant mortality. That is a definite. But I am sure many people did only live to be ~35.
On another note, I think that Bean was not happy because of his life in the beginning. In his case, he escaped out of a virtual death sentence in a toilet, then survived on the streets of Rotterdam for three years, then lived, not with his parents teaching him, but an old nun, and then, later, for an unknown amount of time, he lived in a spinning wheel in space where he was being trained to destroy an entire enemy race.
With that kind of childhood, do you think that someone would turn out happy? If someone grew up normally with Bean's gift/defect, I am pretty sure they would turn out normally (except with the incredibly high IQ and ever-growing brain), and live a happy, fulfilling life (for the short 20 years that they live).
“It might not be gravity that holds us to Earth, but rather an unknown force with identical properties.â€-Sister Carlotta
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
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Has your limited intellect (relatively speaking, of course) prevented you from living a happy and fulfilling life so far?With that kind of childhood, do you think that someone would turn out happy? If someone grew up normally with Bean's gift/defect, I am pretty sure they would turn out normally (except with the incredibly high IQ and ever-growing brain), and live a happy, fulfilling life (for the short 20 years that they live).
"Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic."
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I don't see where you are going with this, but no. I am leading a rather fulfilling life.
“It might not be gravity that holds us to Earth, but rather an unknown force with identical properties.â€-Sister Carlotta
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
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Ah... now I see where you were going with that.
And I think that being a giant of intellect would, proportionately keep the same amount of happiness. I think that if someone has, say, 100 "happy points" in their life, then someone with Bean's would have 400.
This is only because his whole entire living process is sped up.
And I think that being a giant of intellect would, proportionately keep the same amount of happiness. I think that if someone has, say, 100 "happy points" in their life, then someone with Bean's would have 400.
This is only because his whole entire living process is sped up.
“It might not be gravity that holds us to Earth, but rather an unknown force with identical properties.â€-Sister Carlotta
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
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Hoo boy, you sound like someone who's never had to deal with being the smartest guy around.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII
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I would have to agree with zero on that one... from what I have seen and heard, there is not a clearly positive correlation between 'happy' and 'intelligent.' And, I might add, between 'happy' and 'rich' either. I might wonder about the difference between 'fulfilling' and 'happy' (or some other metric of satisfaction) but face it, an imbecile (I mean that literally and with no malice) can be pretty happy for NO reason.
Although there is almost certainly some 'happy median.'
Although there is almost certainly some 'happy median.'
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That's really no more true for a mentally disabled person than it is for you or me.an imbecile (I mean that literally and with no malice) can be pretty happy for NO reason.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII
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Wow this is a lot of responses I have responded too.... Well, I haven't been on this forum in...well, I think two days, give or take a day. Anyway....
Most of you are pointing out that there is no positive correlation between intelligence and happiness. Personally, I believe that in any correlations between happiness and anything else is based soley on opinion, because happiness is, "in the eye of the beholder," kind of, basically I mean that happiness is relative. I may be happy in one position where another is unhappy. I may be unhappy for having a 99% in one class, and another may be happy with a 75% (obviously, unhappiness is just as relative as happiness).
So, I grew up in a place where intelligence is rewarded, and the rewards are pretty darn good. I also grew up in a place where low intelligence is... well, lets just say I would rather be eaten by a walrus than have even one D on my report card, and getting a C is nearly as bad.
This means that I have been "trained" to believe that intelligence is positively correlated with happiness (the rewards bring happiness every time). So, this means I would cherish intelligence more than someone, who did not get trained to cherish intelligence, but say, trained to cherish athletic capability. In this case, athletic prowess is much more desired than intelligence, because the person has been "trained" to do that.
Most of you are pointing out that there is no positive correlation between intelligence and happiness. Personally, I believe that in any correlations between happiness and anything else is based soley on opinion, because happiness is, "in the eye of the beholder," kind of, basically I mean that happiness is relative. I may be happy in one position where another is unhappy. I may be unhappy for having a 99% in one class, and another may be happy with a 75% (obviously, unhappiness is just as relative as happiness).
So, I grew up in a place where intelligence is rewarded, and the rewards are pretty darn good. I also grew up in a place where low intelligence is... well, lets just say I would rather be eaten by a walrus than have even one D on my report card, and getting a C is nearly as bad.
This means that I have been "trained" to believe that intelligence is positively correlated with happiness (the rewards bring happiness every time). So, this means I would cherish intelligence more than someone, who did not get trained to cherish intelligence, but say, trained to cherish athletic capability. In this case, athletic prowess is much more desired than intelligence, because the person has been "trained" to do that.
“It might not be gravity that holds us to Earth, but rather an unknown force with identical properties.â€-Sister Carlotta
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
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Well, I think we're talking about different scales here. Magnitudes of scale, really. When I say "imbecile" I don't mean "you get C's" ... I mean "you're not smart enough to be able to contemplate tying your shoe when you're 30 years old."So, I grew up in a place where intelligence is rewarded, and the rewards are pretty darn good. I also grew up in a place where low intelligence is... well, lets just say I would rather be eaten by a walrus than have even one D on my report card, and getting a C is nearly as bad.
I don't mean that we can't all be happy for no reason at some time or another... I mean that people who are not able to easily conceive what "worry" is are probably happier than those of us who can!That's really no more true for a mentally disabled person than it is for you or me.
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I really meant no reference in my post to your imbecile post. I'm just saying, in my mind, being above average is rewarded well, while in other's (not necessarily as unintelligent as your "imbecile") minds, it does not necessarily as high a priority as other things to other people.[/quote]BeansBrother wrote:
So, I grew up in a place where intelligence is rewarded, and the rewards are pretty darn good. I also grew up in a place where low intelligence is... well, lets just say I would rather be eaten by a walrus than have even one D on my report card, and getting a C is nearly as bad.
Well, I think we're talking about different scales here. Magnitudes of scale, really. When I say "imbecile" I don't mean "you get C's" ... I mean "you're not smart enough to be able to contemplate tying your shoe when you're 30 years old."
“It might not be gravity that holds us to Earth, but rather an unknown force with identical properties.â€-Sister Carlotta
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
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Except they can. And they do. And they feel pain and neglect and scorn, too, just as keenly as you or I, and probably more regularly. They feel lonely when separated from loved ones, sad on sad anniversaries, fearful of places and things with negative associations. They live just as fully human, and if their worry is about something "small" it doesn't make the worry itself any smaller.Well, I think we're talking about different scales here. Magnitudes of scale, really. When I say "imbecile" I don't mean "you get C's" ... I mean "you're not smart enough to be able to contemplate tying your shoe when you're 30 years old."
I don't mean that we can't all be happy for no reason at some time or another... I mean that people who are not able to easily conceive what "worry" is are probably happier than those of us who can!That's really no more true for a mentally disabled person than it is for you or me.
I know you don't mean any harm or insult, so don't take this as me being upset. It's just a topic that is pretty close to home so I can't let it slide on by without comment. And, erm, while I'm at it, could I put in a request to avoid the word "imbecile"? It's generally considered an extremely insulting word.
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Beansbrother, there's a lot more to it than parental disapproval. There's the loneliness of never having someone to talk to, the depression and boredom of being taught down to, the social stigma, being outcast or beat up for being "snotty," a ton of things that come with being the smartest guy around. Hell, go re-read Ender's Game.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII
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First question, do you mean smartest guy around as in normally smartest? Or are you talking about with Bean's disability?Beansbrother, there's a lot more to it than parental disapproval. There's the loneliness of never having someone to talk to, the depression and boredom of being taught down to, the social stigma, being outcast or beat up for being "snotty," a ton of things that come with being the smartest guy around. Hell, go re-read Ender's Game.
If with normally smartest, I do know what it feels like. And I do get talked down to, been called snobby, actually all of things you mentioned. Yet I am extremely happy... maybe it is not because of parent approval, but I am a very happy person. (And yes, I know I am completely arrogant too... but it's true. I am in the second highest math class in the school, and I am a Freshman; I was helping a senior with his English paper.)
And yes, I know the position that Ender was put in. But, you must remember that not all positions are like that, especially considering that that universe is fiction.
But what do I know? I am just a happy fourteen year old who "does not have the experience of life."
“It might not be gravity that holds us to Earth, but rather an unknown force with identical properties.â€-Sister Carlotta
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
“Only the Inquisition would know what to do with you—toast you nice and brown.â€-Bean
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Happiness can't be easily quantified, which is true. But it's still possible to approximate based on different things, or at least approximate change. Historians at least try to do this when talking about change over eras, and I've seen statistics talking about "quality of life" in different areas around the world.Most of you are pointing out that there is no positive correlation between intelligence and happiness. Personally, I believe that in any correlations between happiness and anything else is based soley on opinion, because happiness is, "in the eye of the beholder," kind of, basically I mean that happiness is relative.
And as we know, correlation is not causation.
I could get into (yet another) rant about how grades usually do not reflect intelligence or knowledge in any way, but I think I'll spare us all this time.So, I grew up in a place where intelligence is rewarded, and the rewards are pretty darn good. I also grew up in a place where low intelligence is... well, lets just say I would rather be eaten by a walrus than have even one D on my report card, and getting a C is nearly as bad.
And this tends to sound like parental pressure rather than peer acceptance, but I could be wrong. Keep in mind in many places kids get beat up all the time for being the smart one. It didn't tend to happen to me, but I know quite a few people who let me know about it. (For all I know they could have been asking for it... but I hear numerous stories of them not doing anything deserving, so I tend to believe them somewhat.)
(I realize after I wrote this paragraph that EL basically said the same thing... oh well)
...or that you are being trained with the threat of punishment upon failure. I've seen that create a colossal amount of pressure on kids in high school, and really mess with some people. But if you're doing fine, you're doing fine; just a friendly warning.This means that I have been "trained" to believe that intelligence is positively correlated with happiness (the rewards bring happiness every time).
This could be it. I'd say just enjoy it while you can. A lot of the less happy things occur later. Hmm, well, actually, I guess that depends, since some people's childhood school experiences were hell.... but that's a bit young to be making such an assessment.But what do I know? I am just a happy fourteen year old who "does not have the experience of life."
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It's my shtick. No worries.fair enough... I obviously don't have the same depth of experience.I put in a request to avoid the word imbecile"?
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII
In life, I do value intelligence very highly in my priorities. However, I wouldn't turn my Anton Key unless I knew they was some important purpose or goal I could use my intelligence for. In reality as it is, I'm not quite sure what I could do with that kind of intelligence. Especially as a child.
So, I put "Only if I lived in the Enderverse"
So, I put "Only if I lived in the Enderverse"
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Hah. Having been and known 8th grade teachers, I'll put this as nicely as I can: we often lie to kids to try to motivate them and tend to get excited if we see any intelligence because kids are so often too lazy for us tell if there is anything going on upstairs.(a teacher estimated my IQ to be around 160 in eighth grade).
Just around here, anyway. Your teacher might actually know what he/she was talking about and you might be that smart.
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