Doctor Who (yarr, there be spoilers here!)

[Yebra]

But I like Daleks?

[Eaquae Legit]

Anybody have thoughts? The last two eps were kind of weaksauce, but overall I've been loving this season. And the last two eps are still better than the *spits* Daleks in Manhatten ones.

[Yebra]

I'm annoyed we wasted two episodes and a perfectly good premise on this last story for some incredibly rubbish writing, but yeah I'm pretty happy. Even stand alones like the vampires were perfectly watchable and he's getting a distinct take on the role which I quite like. Also I like Amy so that's good too.

Something that's coming out is how Moffat is far more willing to use time as part of the story rather than just a means of getting between them and I'm jazzed to see where this season arc is going (go back and watch the scene when The Doctor leaves Amy in the woods in the second Angels episode very carefully, that I missed it the first time gives me a lot of Moffat love).

[elfprince13]

This season has a weird fascination with monsters appearing from apparently normal people's mouths.

Anybody have thoughts? The last two eps were kind of weaksauce, but overall I've been loving this season. And the last two eps are still better than the *spits* Daleks in Manhatten ones.

I liked the shout-out to classic DW with the Silurians. Also, don't knock Daleks in Manhattan, even if the pig slaves were a bit underwhelming.


Totally unrelatedly, anyone else still wondering if Jenny will make a reappearance?

[Eaquae Legit]

I'd be fine with Jenny not reappearing for a while. She was sort of "meh" to me. Another good concept with poor execution, it felt.

What did you like about Daleks in Manhatten?

[megxers]

I'm annoyed we wasted two episodes and a perfectly good premise on this last story for some incredibly rubbish writing, but yeah I'm pretty happy. Even stand alones like the vampires were perfectly watchable and he's getting a distinct take on the role which I quite like. Also I like Amy so that's good too.

Something that's coming out is how Moffat is far more willing to use time as part of the story rather than just a means of getting between them and I'm jazzed to see where this season arc is going (go back and watch the scene when The Doctor leaves Amy in the woods in the second Angels episode very carefully, that I missed it the first time gives me a lot of Moffat love).

Same, on both tangents. And I am so looking forward to seeing how the latter will pan out. I remember the first time I watched it I found it jarring but thought it was just poor writing or something, it took the Internet for me to see the error in my ways.

[Bean_wannabe]

Something that's coming out is how Moffat is far more willing to use time as part of the story rather than just a means of getting between them and I'm jazzed to see where this season arc is going (go back and watch the scene when The Doctor leaves Amy in the woods in the second Angels episode very carefully, that I missed it the first time gives me a lot of Moffat love).

As someone who has no access to the episode, mind telling me what I've missed?

[Rei]

Doctor Who tonight!

We're getting together with a friend to watch it at her NEW APARTMENT (first time moving out for her, so it's all very exciting). And then we're going to finish watching The History Boys. And then possibly watch Dead Poets Society.

It should be a pretty spectacular night.

[elfprince13]

I'd be fine with Jenny not reappearing for a while. She was sort of "meh" to me. Another good concept with poor execution, it felt.

She really needed a two-parter to do justice to her story. Also, I thought Georgia Moffett was great for the part.

What did you like about Daleks in Manhatten?

I liked the Hooverites. Also the character developments with the Cult of Skaro and the Doctor reconciling himself to helping the Daleks.

[Janus%TheDoorman]

Something that's coming out is how Moffat is far more willing to use time as part of the story rather than just a means of getting between them and I'm jazzed to see where this season arc is going (go back and watch the scene when The Doctor leaves Amy in the woods in the second Angels episode very carefully, that I missed it the first time gives me a lot of Moffat love).

As someone who has no access to the episode, mind telling me what I've missed?

The Doctor who comes back to comfort Amy and implore her to remember what he told her when she was seven is NOT the same Doctor as the rest of the episode. He lost his jacket early on in the episode, but has it back in that scene. His bowtie is a different color. His demeanor is completely different, and there's a change in background music. He can be heard getting farther and farther away and is then almost immediately back with her.

All this seems to point to a version of the Doctor from the season finale coming back to set something in motion by reminding her of what he told her when she was seven. What exactly he's talking about, I have no idea.

[Eaquae Legit]

I loved this recent ep. It was very squeeish and I really loved Van Gogh. I loved how they didn't agonize over the whole "timey-wimey-messing-with-history" thing like usual, and just took him to see his future. Bill Nighy in a bowtie was just perfect, too. It's definitely a favouriteish ep.

Edit: And I am not one who likes "subtext" or those who attempt to read it into shows, etc. But this Doctor is kind of gay. It's quite charming and he reminds me of a friend who also sports a bowtie as daywear.

[Rei]

I loved seeing Van Gogh! It was a independent story episode and I really loved the characterisation of Van Gogh and how he related to the Doctor and Amy.

[Jayelle]

I was really thrown by the English (Isles) pronunciation of Van Gogh - I've always pronounced it like "Go" and they said "Goth". But, once I got over that... twas a good episode. I was nervous at first because Van Gogh didn't seem "crazy" enough, but he definitely turned up the crazy later on.
I loved that the Doctor slipped up and said Rory, and that Amy was crying without even noticing.

I am truly enjoying this season.

[Rei]

They were actually using a voiceless velar fricative, I believe, as opposed to the voiceless dental fricative. If I recall correctly, that is how it is actually pronounced in Dutch. [/linguist]

I absolutely loved how Van Gogh, with his Scotch accent, asked Amy if they were from the same place.

[Janus%TheDoorman]

This episode was better than I expected it to be. Not that I mind, but Amy's been stealing the show the entire season, seeing the Doctor somewhat unleashed was great, but... for all of that, the preview of next week's episode was 90% of the reason I watched this, and it didn't disappoint.

[Caspian]

I thought this episode was a lot of fun. I really liked the Doctor trying to be a normal bloke, and failing.

Jan's saying in my ear and I agree with her so I'm going to say it as if it was me and not give her the credit (wait...) that 10 was human lots of times and seemed to do it easily. But 11 seems to have much more trouble with it. Interesting. Very interesting.

Also, I really like all the flashes to previous Doctors we keep seeing in this season.

[Eaquae Legit]

Totally. Flaming.

I really did like this episode, with it's doctorness. 11 also seems much, much older than 10 did, even though he's younger (the actor). Well played, Matt Smith.

[Janus%TheDoorman]

Also, I really like all the flashes to previous Doctors we keep seeing in this season.

I think that after 9 and 10's run the show had picked up a lot of fans (myself included) who aren't familiar with the first eight doctors, and Moffat has pointed out that he views Doctor Who as the continuing adventures of one man, not a completely new series every time a new incarnation picks up. This often gets lost under the new personality quirks which help to keep the show fresh, but it's particularly obvious in the episodes Moffat himself wrote this season (11th Hour, Beast Below, and the Angels pair) that the 11th spends a lot of time reflecting on the whole of his history, where the 9th just running away from the Time War as quickly as he could, and the 10th was practically on vacation the whole time, sort of recuperating himself.

Whereas 10 spent most of his time ignoring his place as the last of the Time Lords, half hoping the others would come back, and making a real mess of it when he finally did try and shoulder the responsibility his entire race collectively bore at one point, I think we'll see 11 develop into more of an "Old Wiseman" character, given this emphasis on seeing him as a singular character from all the way back in 1963 until now.

Edited to ask:

Is Torchwood worth a watch? I've been through the first four episodes, and I'm still somewhat... unsure. I mean, I knocked Stargate Universe for leaning on sexuality too hard for plot and drama, but at least they never had aliens who infect people and make them sex addicts. On the second episode! I'm surprised fanfiction.net didn't file a class action lawsuit for intellectual property theft. And then the fourth episode... the hell was that? Ianto has like five lines of dialog before he's put through a character warping ordeal? The plotline of the episode wasn't bad, but it was the sort of thing I'd have expected at least a season or two into the series.

I'm only still interested because I'd heard Children of Earth was amazing and despite the show's problems, I can see how it might pull itself together. Does it ever do so? If not, can I just skip the first two seasons and watch Children of Earth?

[elfprince13]

I was really thrown by the English (Isles) pronunciation of Van Gogh - I've always pronounced it like "Go" and they said "Goth".

Was it "Goth" or "Goff"?

Is Torchwood worth a watch? I've been through the first four episodes, and I'm still somewhat... unsure. I mean, I knocked Stargate Universe for leaning on sexuality too hard for plot and drama, but at least they never had aliens who infect people and make them sex addicts. On the second episode! I'm surprised fanfiction.net didn't file a class action lawsuit for intellectual property theft. And then the fourth episode... the hell was that? Ianto has like five lines of dialog before he's put through a character warping ordeal? The plotline of the episode wasn't bad, but it was the sort of thing I'd have expected at least a season or two into the series.

I'm only still interested because I'd heard Children of Earth was amazing and despite the show's problems, I can see how it might pull itself together. Does it ever do so? If not, can I just skip the first two seasons and watch Children of Earth?

It starts slow and picks up speed. I enjoyed the first two seasons, and Children of Earth really was fantastic, but it won't be as good if you don't know what Jack, Gwen, Ianto and Rhys have gone through over the two years previous. Also, season 2 has several episodes of Martha.

On a related note, has anyone here watched The Sarah Jane Adventures, and if so, are you willing to recommend it or warn me against it? I'll be itching for my who-niverse fix after the finale.

[Eaquae Legit]

The Sarah Jane Adventures are very much a children's show. You might enjoy them if that's all you expect out of them. There are lots of smarty-pants quirky kids running around and a certain amount of silly gadgets and bad CGI, but the stories are, IMO, a bit above the average children's fare these days.

[megxers]

Also, I really like all the flashes to previous Doctors we keep seeing in this season.

Edited to ask:

Is Torchwood worth a watch? I've been through the first four episodes, and I'm still somewhat... unsure. I mean, I knocked Stargate Universe for leaning on sexuality too hard for plot and drama, but at least they never had aliens who infect people and make them sex addicts. On the second episode! I'm surprised fanfiction.net didn't file a class action lawsuit for intellectual property theft. And then the fourth episode... the hell was that? Ianto has like five lines of dialog before he's put through a character warping ordeal? The plotline of the episode wasn't bad, but it was the sort of thing I'd have expected at least a season or two into the series.

Sooo the first four episodes of Torchwood put me off the series for well over a year. However, a couple of months ago I started watching from season 2, and watched it all in like 2 days. It gets a lot better, and people tried to convince me it did, and I didn't believe them, but it really, really does.

[Caspian]

The Sarah Jane Adventures are very much a children's show.

It are a children's show? Where's the Grammar Nazi when we need her?

[Rei]

Was it "Goth" or "Goff"?

It's neither. It's closer to the 'ch' in the Scottish 'loch', or the German 'Bach'.

EL tells me that calling it a 'voiceless velar fricative' isn't very helpful for most people. Probably neither is saying it's /x/ in IPA.

[Eaquae Legit]

The Sarah Jane Adventures are very much a children's show.

It are a children's show? Where's the Grammar Nazi when we need her?

Off napping, I suppose. Good news for me.

Dang proper nouns. *grumble* I was tired when I posted that.

[Caspian]

voiceless velar fricative

Well I'm not a linguist, but I know words enough to figure out what that means. Voiceless meaning ... voiceless. "T" is voiceless. "M" isn't. "th" in "three" is voiceless, but "th" in "there" is voiced.

Fricative I assume means produced by friction in the mouth, like "f" or "s". I can't think of how to make a voiceless sound that isn't a fricative. Maybe to contrast with "t" or "p" which are plosive instead.

Velar I'm not positive about, but since you contrasted it with "dental" I'm going to deduce that it has to do with where in the mouth the sound is made. "th" is dental because it's made by the tongue on the teeth. So velar must be made in the back of the throat.

Voiceless velar fricative is a sound made in the back of the throat, by air not by voicing it. Right?

[Rei]

Bang on, Holmes!

You got it indeed; velar is referring to the velum, the soft palate near the back of the mouth. The hard palate is at the front of the roof of your mouth, and as you move back you find an area where it is soft and that is the velum.

[Yebra]

Yes - you have to watch Torchwood 1 and 2. You're not allowed to enjoy Children of Earth without suffering through those first. You'll never be one of us otherwise.

[Eaquae Legit]

I'm so sad the season is almost over....

[Yebra]

*disguised spoilers*

I really liked that what looked like a 'hey happy endings!' turned out to be yet another twist of the knife. Good episode, looking forward to finding out who the big bad is next week.

[Jayelle]

EEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


Okay. So. Holy Crap.



...

Spoilery colour just in case people read this thread accidentally.


That was cool. I can't wait for next week. I don't for a second believe that Amy's dead and I don't believe the TARDIS is actually going to blow up forever.
How? No idea. Well, I think it may have something to do with Amy's memories. There's more to that then they said.


Man, that was just crazy

[Janus%TheDoorman]

Y'know... I'm just going to throw out this crazy-insane theory. Depending on how you view them (read: depending on how well their PR departments are paid), all of the Doctor's enemies could easily be viewed as the good guys, especially with a few thousand years of revisionist history to aid them.

Sure, the Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, the Judoon, and the Sycorax all have indiscretions on their record, but who doesn't. During the 9th, 10th, and 11th's run, the Shadow Proclamation seems to offer some order to galactic affairs, but ... it seems to be a pretty wild-west affair otherwise.

Frankly, the assembled races who lock him in the Pandorica have some legitimate claim to do so. Most of them (Even the Daleks), most of them were minding their own business and did something that offended the ethics of the Time Lords or the Doctor personally, and got their species near-wiped out for it. Most of them were just harvesting the Earth for something (usually humans), which for them might be not so different from the way we harvest cows. But, of course, the Doctor's got a thing for humans, so any time anyone steps on his toes, they get slapped back for it.

I think someone needs to make a "What If?" comic or story where the Doctor wakes up, the Pandorica opens, and it's thousands of years later, and there's a booming galactic civilization built based on the alliance that came together to seal him up. One could have all sorts of fun in that setting.

[Bean_wannabe]

I think someone needs to make a "What If?" comic or story where the Doctor wakes up, the Pandorica opens, and it's thousands of years later, and there's a booming galactic civilization built based on the alliance that came together to seal him up. One could have all sorts of fun in that setting.

I agree - thankfully, this is what fanfiction.net was MADE for.

[Wil]

Great season or greatest season?

And to think, I was WORRIED about this season's doctor. Silly, silly Wil.

[jotabe]

ok, question

Let's assume that i have a certain hypothetical friend, who has never seen actually dr Who. Well, to be precise, let's consider he only saw a few episodes of the 4th doctor, many years ago. To give this friend a name, let's call him JB.

So, this JB guy, who doesn't actually exist, and bears no meaningful similarities with me, wants to get into the dr who thing... which season should i advice him to start on, so he can get the whole thing?

[Wil]

"Doctor Who 2005" is how it is listed online. Start with 2005, and if you want then you work your way back from the beginning at some point. You can start from 2005 without needing to know anything about the previous doctors at all.