Debate Thread: round one: Legalization of Prostitution

[hive_king]

The same is true, I think, for something that is legal. If it was legal for eighteen year olds to drink in the USA, more would, because they can. The ones who want to drink will do so anyway, but there are others who will do it only if offered alcohol, or only until they hit drinking age. Similarly, I think that prostitution is something that more people would become involved in if it was legal, and if it was safer.

Actually, I'd have to disagree with you on this one. Canadian colleges (where the drinking age is 18) actually have less drinking related incidents among 18-21 year olds than American colleges, i remember once seeing in a study. The fact that it's illegal makes it more of a "forbidden fruit".

[eriador]

yes, the forbidden fruit aspect is an important thing to consider.

the other thing is that it might not be all bad if more people got involved in prostitution, especially if it was safer, the good (safer, less spread of disese) would outwigh the bad.

[anonshadow]

The same is true, I think, for something that is legal. If it was legal for eighteen year olds to drink in the USA, more would, because they can. The ones who want to drink will do so anyway, but there are others who will do it only if offered alcohol, or only until they hit drinking age. Similarly, I think that prostitution is something that more people would become involved in if it was legal, and if it was safer.

Actually, I'd have to disagree with you on this one. Canadian colleges (where the drinking age is 18) actually have less drinking related incidents among 18-21 year olds than American colleges, i remember once seeing in a study. The fact that it's illegal makes it more of a "forbidden fruit".

Drinking related incidents, or drinking? I'm not saying that people are more likely to drive drunk or cause fights when they're legally allowed to do something. I am simply saying that, statistically, I bet that more Scottish students drink alcohol than American students, because it is simply more accessible.

Additionally, while the forbidden fruit analogy works terrifically when there are rebellious spoiled teens involved, it doesn't work quite so well when you consider the fact that a lot of the patrons would not be teenage losers who want to act out. People mellow down when they get older.

And, yes--people who want to do things will do them no matter what. But if it was legal for all sixteen year olds in the United States to drink, I would be willing to bet that more sixteen year olds would consume alcohol at least once than they would otherwise.

We're not talking about repeat patrons, here--only people employing the use of prostitutes differently. And I don't think more people flock to prostitutes because they're "forbidden fruit."

(Incidentally, the drinking age in Canada is not 18--it is 18 in some provinces and 19 in others.)

[mr_thebrain]

I have to agree, I don't think forbidden fruit is much of a factor when considering prostitution.

I know there are some people who enjoy sex a lot more when it is taboo in some way. And yes, I’m sure there is a small subset of prostitute patrons who indeed only go due to the taboo/forbidden nature of the thing. I think however that it is a small amount.

I can't say though that there would be a major increase of people going to prostitutes if it were legal. Nor do I think there would be a major decrease. I actually think the amount of people using prostitutes would stay rather the same, there would just be fewer people getting arrested, and some sort of regulation regarding safety practices.

If they were also restricted to houses (brothels) it would clean up what street whoring there is. Being able to legally practice in a nice, professional brothel seems a whole lot more attractive than doing it out on the street. It also seems a whole lot better than being homeless/cold/hungry.

Also it would create jobs.

I say it’s time that these poor unfortunates found a career path! Get back on the straight and narrow and such and so forth.

[eriador]

I like your point. The real benefit of legalizing prostitution would be to clean it up and provide a clean, healthy and safe environment.

I also think you're right about the "forbidden fruit" factor. However, even if it does prove to be important, the idea of cleaning up the institution of prostituiton by legalizing and regulating it makes a lot of sense.

[anonshadow]

If they were also restricted to houses (brothels) it would clean up what street whoring there is. Being able to legally practice in a nice, professional brothel seems a whole lot more attractive than doing it out on the street. It also seems a whole lot better than being homeless/cold/hungry.

Wouldn't you need to have some money to rent a room in a brothel? Or apply to be employed by one?

I don't think it would eliminate street prostitution, although it certainly would help it--I'm sure that some women would be turned down for a job, and end up walking the streets anyway. What would fair employment practices be for prostitutes? Models are hired based on their looks--would prostitutes be hired the same way? Could a patron choose the prostitute to engage in sexual affairs with?

Would raping a prostitute be more heinous than ordinary rape (in a similar way to assaulting or killing a cop is dealt with more harshly)?

[eriador]

Setting aside questions about specifics, I think anonshadow has a good point about stree prostitution. However, If the industry was well regulated, it would be easier to regulate street prostitution.

[mr_thebrain]

ah. but different strokes for different folks. some men like ugly haggard and dirty women. there would probably be several brothels in any given town. one or two for high society, one or two for cheaper, less pretty and rich people, and one or two for poor unfortunates.

you can't assume that all prostitutes are pretty.

EOE brothels FTW.

beyond that, it'd probably be easier to get a job as a prostitute at a brothel than a part time high schooler at Mcdonalds. just a few more tests.

then it's simply a matter of giving society the impression that any street based/pimped out prostitute is likely to be diseased. which society already has so that's no problem.

regarding the rape laws, i don't see as it would be dealt with in any way other than how we deal with rape now.

[eriador]

Good answers.

I like your point about different establishments catering to different people.

I also agree on the rape laws.

[anonshadow]

ah. but different strokes for different folks. some men like ugly haggard and dirty women. there would probably be several brothels in any given town. one or two for high society, one or two for cheaper, less pretty and rich people, and one or two for poor unfortunates.

Depends on the town and the size, but point definitely taken.

As far as different strokes for different folks--yes, but it's difficult to deny, I think, that a fatter woman would have more trouble finding a job as a prostitute than a thin woman.

Think about all the men and lesbians you know. Given the choice between a thinner woman with big boobs and a nice face, and a heavier woman with small boobs and a bit of a mustache, which do you think that most would rather have sex with?

Now think about all the women and gay men you know. Given the choice between a taller, well-muscled man and a short gangly guy with a horsish face, which do you think that most would rather have sex with?

People have different tastes, but by and large--I don't think that saying "different strokes for different folks" really addresses the issue.

you can't assume that all prostitutes are pretty.

As I said above, I assume that most people would rather have sex with a conventionally physically attractive woman than they would with a fatter woman, or an plainer one, or with a conventionally physically attractive man than they would with a fatter man, or a plain one.

EOE brothels FTW.

beyond that, it'd probably be easier to get a job as a prostitute at a brothel than a part time high schooler at Mcdonalds. just a few more tests.

Hmm. Maybe in some. In others, I imagine the people who ran it would go to whatever lengths possible to ensure that all of its prostitutes were going to appeal to the greatest amount of people.

I don't think that legalizing prostitution without thinking about how to (and how much to) monitor the industry is a good idea. We don't have equal opportunity laws that protect potential models; would we have them for prostitutes?

then it's simply a matter of giving society the impression that any street based/pimped out prostitute is likely to be diseased. which society already has so that's no problem.

I don't think that it's such an unreasonable concern, although the stigma is an unfair one. The more people one has sex with, the more likely one is to contract an STD. That risk grows exponentially when one is engaging in unprotected sex at least some of the time, but it's still a concern when there's someone who is having sex with multiple partners, even if they do use protection--because there are some things that condoms and birth control pills cannot prevent against (like herpes). And condoms break.

Does a person who has a lot of sex with a lot of people deserve to be looked down upon? No. Does that person deserve to be treated like a disease ridden freak? No.

Would I want them tested before I did anything sexual with them?

Hell yes.

It's simply being careful.

[Jebus]

The same is true, I think, for something that is legal. If it was legal for eighteen year olds to drink in the USA, more would, because they can. The ones who want to drink will do so anyway, but there are others who will do it only if offered alcohol, or only until they hit drinking age. Similarly, I think that prostitution is something that more people would become involved in if it was legal, and if it was safer.

Actually, I'd have to disagree with you on this one. Canadian colleges (where the drinking age is 18) actually have less drinking related incidents among 18-21 year olds than American colleges, i remember once seeing in a study. The fact that it's illegal makes it more of a "forbidden fruit".

Maybe so, but I don't see how legalising "forbidden fruit" would help the problem. I believe New Zealand lowered their drinking age from 20 to 18 a few years ago but are considering making it 20 again due to the problems they encountered.

[Epi]

There are a lot of places with legal prostitution and their societies have not fallen apart (Netherlands, Germany, Las Vegas...). Likewise there are places where there is no drinking age or at least it's basically not enforced (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age)... again those places aren't falling apart.

In the end it's a societal choice whether to allow things or not and how paternalistic a society decides to be.

[eriador]

This is touching on the "Question for Americans" thread, so check it out...

But what I think is that it all has to do with societal attitudes. If the society can see it in a healty way, there won't be a problem.