Grammar Question
- Darth Petra
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Grammar Question
This has been bugging me for some time.
Does anybody know if you use a plural verb for a group of people? (like a band or something…)
If it ends in an “s†(Like the Beatles) the plural verb is used. (“The Beatles are a good band)
But what if it doesn’t end in an “S� (Like Monty Python)
Which would be correct?
Monty Python is funny.
Monty Python are funny.
“Is†sounds better, but “are†makes more sense when you think about it….
I’m confuddled.
Does anybody know if you use a plural verb for a group of people? (like a band or something…)
If it ends in an “s†(Like the Beatles) the plural verb is used. (“The Beatles are a good band)
But what if it doesn’t end in an “S� (Like Monty Python)
Which would be correct?
Monty Python is funny.
Monty Python are funny.
“Is†sounds better, but “are†makes more sense when you think about it….
I’m confuddled.
"Death is the only serious preoccupation in life."
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- Young Val
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You use the singular when speaking of a single group.
"Group" is actually a singular noun. A group. One single group. If you have MORE than one group, it becomes plural and would take the plural verb.
Although a group is composed of many individuals, you are combining them into one single unit.
In terms of band names, I do tend to use "are" if the band name is plural. As in "The Beatles are a band I never listen to."
[edited to fix typo]
[edited to add the following]
The Beatles are a band to which I never listen.
There.
In a grammar thread my above dangling preposition was making me twitch.
"Group" is actually a singular noun. A group. One single group. If you have MORE than one group, it becomes plural and would take the plural verb.
Although a group is composed of many individuals, you are combining them into one single unit.
In terms of band names, I do tend to use "are" if the band name is plural. As in "The Beatles are a band I never listen to."
[edited to fix typo]
[edited to add the following]
The Beatles are a band to which I never listen.
There.
In a grammar thread my above dangling preposition was making me twitch.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
- Syphon the Sun
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You're talking about collective nouns. I was all set to post a long spiel about when to use each, but Grammar Girl has an article here that does a far better job than I would, I'm sure.
The basic answer: when the collective is operating as a group, you use a singular verb. When they are operating individually, you use a plural verb.
The basic answer: when the collective is operating as a group, you use a singular verb. When they are operating individually, you use a plural verb.
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The rules change slightly when you're in England/UK. It's not uncommon to hear something like "Liverpool win!", where the apparently-singular noun is used as a collective (in this example, for the whole football team).
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- BonitoDeMadrid
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I have another grammar question: when do you use "who", and when do you use "whom"?
Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cavefish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we do!
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cavefish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we do!
- Rei
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To be honest, I'd be apt to say that the first form of the sentence is better English grammar than the latter. Yes, the latter sticks to the arbitrary rules assigned to English to try and make it be Latin with a different vocabulary, but in the process it makes the language deliberately pompous and obtuse. The primary purpose of language is to communicate and the role of grammar is to ensure that we can communicate clearly as a society.In terms of band names, I do tend to use "are" if the band name is plural. As in "The Beatles are a band I never listen to."
[edited to fix typo]
[edited to add the following]
The Beatles are a band to which I never listen.
There.
In a grammar thread my above dangling preposition was making me twitch.
[Edit]
If I recall correctly from one of my classes, there is some debate as to whether 'to listen to' constitutes a distinct verb from 'to listen'. If so, then the second 'to' is not so much a preposition as a necessary part of the verb.
Last edited by Rei on Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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私は。。。誰?
Dernhelm
~Blaise Pascal
私は。。。誰?
Dernhelm
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This is the argument I usually receive in favor of chat speak.To be honest, I'd be apt to say that the first form of the sentence is better English grammar than the latter. Yes, the latter sticks to the arbitrary rules assigned to English to try and make it be Latin with a different vocabulary, but in the process it makes the language deliberately pompous and obtuse. The primary purpose of language is to communicate and the role of grammar is to ensure that we can communicate clearly as a society.In terms of band names, I do tend to use "are" if the band name is plural. As in "The Beatles are a band I never listen to."
[edited to fix typo]
[edited to add the following]
The Beatles are a band to which I never listen.
There.
In a grammar thread my above dangling preposition was making me twitch.
I now blame you for chat speak.
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*Philoticweb.net = Phoebe (Discord)
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- Rei
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To be fair, chat speak, in a context where that is the primary mode of communication, could well be the grammar that is best used. That said, it is clearly not useful for communicating in most social settings and especially not in formal writing. Also, I might add that chat speak is by and large merely a change in orthography and that very few grammatical elements are actually changed with any significance.
Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point.
~Blaise Pascal
私は。。。誰?
Dernhelm
~Blaise Pascal
私は。。。誰?
Dernhelm
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I was depressed the day I realised how much chat speak has in common with medieval palaeography.
Then I decided they are equally obtuse. It may work well for those in the know, but it's still bloody irritating to outsiders.
Then I decided they are equally obtuse. It may work well for those in the know, but it's still bloody irritating to outsiders.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII
- Young Val
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I leave my prepositions dangling all the time in daily conversation. But in a thread about grammar, I thought it best (and certainly more amusing) to be technically correct. It's no hardship to me, as I know the rules of grammar particularly well.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
- neo-dragon
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It's because you're a common person, an average man, and you don't need anything other than the most basic English to get by.you's all is talking two complicated like four me too be understanding right
This "grammar" talk is just for the advanced people, the ones who are going to be brain surgeons and such...the ones who are going to advance society. Go pay your bills and let the smart people talk.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.
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Or you could switch it to "I never listen to the Beatles." and avoid the awkward wording altogether.To be honest, I'd be apt to say that the first form of the sentence is better English grammar than the latter. Yes, the latter sticks to the arbitrary rules assigned to English to try and make it be Latin with a different vocabulary, but in the process it makes the language deliberately pompous and obtuse. The primary purpose of language is to communicate and the role of grammar is to ensure that we can communicate clearly as a society.In terms of band names, I do tend to use "are" if the band name is plural. As in "The Beatles are a band I never listen to."
[edited to fix typo]
[edited to add the following]
The Beatles are a band to which I never listen.
There.
In a grammar thread my above dangling preposition was making me twitch.
[Edit]
If I recall correctly from one of my classes, there is some debate as to whether 'to listen to' constitutes a distinct verb from 'to listen'. If so, then the second 'to' is not so much a preposition as a necessary part of the verb.
The enemy's fly is down.
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As much as I hear this and understand it, "Monty Python are funny" will never sound correct in my head (my opinion of their humor notwithstanding). I hate these constructs. Same with "data are"; I know it's the plural for datum, but who the hell uses the word datum? "Piece of data", c'mon.The basic answer: when the collective is operating as a group, you use a singular verb. When they are operating individually, you use a plural verb.
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- Jebus
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Don't listen to her. Sure, you're a common man, and what's wrong with that? It's the common man that sees through the pompous bluster of the intellectuals with his keen insight into a situation. What you have doesn't come from books, it doesn't come from a degree, it doesn't come from so-called "rational thinking", it comes from the heart. But the brain police take one look at the way you choose to present yourself and they think that has anything to do with who you are and what you are capable of. Makes me sick to my stomach. Me? I'd vote for you for president if I could, I swear to gum I would, that'd really stick it to the intellirati.It's because you're a common person, an average man, and you don't need anything other than the most basic English to get by.you's all is talking two complicated like four me too be understanding right
This "grammar" talk is just for the advanced people, the ones who are going to be brain surgeons and such...the ones who are going to advance society. Go pay your bills and let the smart people talk.
- Syphon the Sun
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That's because "Monty Python are funny" will almost never be correct, because you're referring to the group as a whole, not the members of the group acting individually. Ninety-nine percent of the time, collective nouns should be accompanied by a singular verb.As much as I hear this and understand it, "Monty Python are funny" will never sound correct in my head (my opinion of their humor notwithstanding). I hate these constructs. Same with "data are"; I know it's the plural for datum, but who the hell uses the word datum? "Piece of data", c'mon.
Examples:
Smashing Pumpkins is breaking up.
Smashing Pumpkins are going their separate ways.
Step softly; a dream lies buried here.
- Young Val
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Or you could switch it to "I never listen to the Beatles." and avoid the awkward wording altogether.To be honest, I'd be apt to say that the first form of the sentence is better English grammar than the latter. Yes, the latter sticks to the arbitrary rules assigned to English to try and make it be Latin with a different vocabulary, but in the process it makes the language deliberately pompous and obtuse. The primary purpose of language is to communicate and the role of grammar is to ensure that we can communicate clearly as a society.In terms of band names, I do tend to use "are" if the band name is plural. As in "The Beatles are a band I never listen to."
[edited to fix typo]
[edited to add the following]
The Beatles are a band to which I never listen.
There.
In a grammar thread my above dangling preposition was making me twitch.
[Edit]
If I recall correctly from one of my classes, there is some debate as to whether 'to listen to' constitutes a distinct verb from 'to listen'. If so, then the second 'to' is not so much a preposition as a necessary part of the verb.
Very true, but since the question was about the correct conjugation of the verb "to be" I thought it best to keep it in there.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
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Never "Monty Python are funny guys"? Or something.That's because "Monty Python are funny" will almost never be correct, because you're referring to the group as a whole, not the members of the group acting individually.As much as I hear this and understand it, "Monty Python are funny" will never sound correct in my head (my opinion of their humor notwithstanding). I hate these constructs. Same with "data are"; I know it's the plural for datum, but who the hell uses the word datum? "Piece of data", c'mon.
In any case, I do hear the plural quite often in news articles involving large companies. It's irritating.
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