Fundies!
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- Speaker for the Dead
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I don't see how those 2 statements are even contradictory. The 1st statement just means I believe strongly that God exists and that Jesus is his Son.One of those clauses is a lie.Seriously, I am a strong Christian, please tolerate me. I accept your different views on God.
The 2nd statement just means I do not force or expect other people to believe what I believe. You chose to be atheist, I tolerate and accept that. I won't even try to change your mind.
**Eriador, I'm not offended that you thought I lied. EL is the moderator and he took offense where there was none, but rules are rules so next time I "lie" just call it a contradiction.
I have not read all your posts but from what I've seen, you are very intelligent and back up your thoughts quite well with just a touch of arrogance.**
Live every week like it's SHARK WEEK
- wizzard
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I'm endlessly amused that everyone always assumes EL is male**Eriador, I'm not offended that you thought I lied. EL is the moderator and he took offense where there was none, but rules are rules so next time I "lie" just call it a contradiction.
I have not read all your posts but from what I've seen, you are very intelligent and back up your thoughts quite well with just a touch of arrogance.**
Member since: January 25, 2003
"Morituri Nolumus Mori" -Rincewind
Don't feed the bezoar!
"Morituri Nolumus Mori" -Rincewind
Don't feed the bezoar!
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- KillEvilBanned
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Scott, thank you. I guess I do see a contradiction because I interpret the word "accept" differently. I believe that what you are saying is that you accept the fact that I believe what I believe. You don't accept those beliefs themselves. That's why I believe that tolerate is a better word.I don't see how those 2 statements are even contradictory. The 1st statement just means I believe strongly that God exists and that Jesus is his Son.One of those clauses is a lie.Seriously, I am a strong Christian, please tolerate me. I accept your different views on God.
The 2nd statement just means I do not force or expect other people to believe what I believe. You chose to be atheist, I tolerate and accept that. I won't even try to change your mind.
**Eriador, I'm not offended that you thought I lied. EL is the moderator and he took offense where there was none, but rules are rules so next time I "lie" just call it a contradiction.
I have not read all your posts but from what I've seen, you are very intelligent and back up your thoughts quite well with just a touch of arrogance.**
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- Speaker for the Dead
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Noli confundere populos, Magge.I'm endlessly amused that everyone always assumes EL is male**Eriador, I'm not offended that you thought I lied. EL is the moderator and he took offense where there was none, but rules are rules so next time I "lie" just call it a contradiction.
I have not read all your posts but from what I've seen, you are very intelligent and back up your thoughts quite well with just a touch of arrogance.**
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII
- BonitoDeMadrid
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4favor, English. Some of us haven't gone to Latin class.Noli confundere populos, Magge.I'm endlessly amused that everyone always assumes EL is male**Eriador, I'm not offended that you thought I lied. EL is the moderator and he took offense where there was none, but rules are rules so next time I "lie" just call it a contradiction.
I have not read all your posts but from what I've seen, you are very intelligent and back up your thoughts quite well with just a touch of arrogance.**
Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cavefish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we do!
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cavefish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we do!
- Jebus
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Well that's evident, cause it's spanish not latin, and he's saying he wants some tacos.4favor, English. Some of us haven't gone to Latin class.Noli confundere populos, Magge.I'm endlessly amused that everyone always assumes EL is male**Eriador, I'm not offended that you thought I lied. EL is the moderator and he took offense where there was none, but rules are rules so next time I "lie" just call it a contradiction.
I have not read all your posts but from what I've seen, you are very intelligent and back up your thoughts quite well with just a touch of arrogance.**
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- Speaker for the Dead
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- KillEvilBanned
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*bump*
Scott, thank you. I guess I do see a contradiction because I interpret the word "accept" differently. I believe that what you are saying is that you accept the fact that I believe what I believe. You don't accept those beliefs themselves. That's why I believe that tolerate is a better word.I don't see how those 2 statements are even contradictory. The 1st statement just means I believe strongly that God exists and that Jesus is his Son.One of those clauses is a lie.Seriously, I am a strong Christian, please tolerate me. I accept your different views on God.
The 2nd statement just means I do not force or expect other people to believe what I believe. You chose to be atheist, I tolerate and accept that. I won't even try to change your mind.
**Eriador, I'm not offended that you thought I lied. EL is the moderator and he took offense where there was none, but rules are rules so next time I "lie" just call it a contradiction.
I have not read all your posts but from what I've seen, you are very intelligent and back up your thoughts quite well with just a touch of arrogance.**
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- Speaker for the Dead
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Since my words started this semantic argument, I will attempt to end it.There is a difference between accepting a belief as valid--or even as reasonable--and believing it yourself. Acceptance is not agreement.
And Scott, don't worry--you'll learn the truth about eriador soon enough.
Eriador is locked in on only one meaning of the word 'accept' - "to regard as true".
Eriador, try some other meaning of the word accept - "To perceive or recognize the meaning of"
or "To understand as having a specific meaning"
Seriously, I am a strong Christian, please tolerate me. I accept your different views on God.
Live every week like it's SHARK WEEK
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Um. Sure. Except for all the parts where that's totally not the case. You need to look up the word valid in the dictionary, I think. Valid doesn't mean correct. It means believable, or justifiable. Accepting that other beliefs are justifiable is not agreeing with those other beliefs. It is accepting that the belief itself can be supported with some evidence.If you accept that an opinion is valid you cannot hold a contradictory opinion, because they can't BOTH be valid. You can accept that I believe x, but you can't accept x if you believe in a contradictory y.
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- Speaker for the Dead
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One can believe in a Truth and also believe that other people have good and rational reasons for believing something else.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII
- Rei
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It is more arbitrarily illogical to refuse to even consider that anyone else might ever be right than it is to accept that it is possible, even if you personally feel that what you believe is Truth. That is one of my issues with militant atheism, or militant anything, really: it has chosen one belief (fair enough) and it refuses to even consider that anybody else could ever possibly be right because it's obvious that they are foolish people. That, to me, is by far more arbitrarily illogical than the simple acceptance that it is possible my beliefs are not Truth and someone else's are.
Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point.
~Blaise Pascal
私は。。。誰?
Dernhelm
~Blaise Pascal
私は。。。誰?
Dernhelm
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- Speaker for the Dead
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Sometimes I think that the level of tolerance accepted varies on popular government ideals. Fascism on one side having no tolerance (cut away the cancer attitude), and Socialism on the other where it seems taboo to censor.
I am more moderate. I believe in being agreeable as much as possible, and at the same time, I can't tolerate some attitudes and behaviors.
I am more moderate. I believe in being agreeable as much as possible, and at the same time, I can't tolerate some attitudes and behaviors.
...but paranoia is all I have!!
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There's no need to attack a person for stating opinions. However, when a person states their opinions, they put their opinions up for debate, simple as that. If you can't defend your opinion, then you really shouldn't have them.
Denny
"Children are a perpetual, self-renewing underclass, helpless to escape from the decisions of the adults until they become adults themselves."
"Children are a perpetual, self-renewing underclass, helpless to escape from the decisions of the adults until they become adults themselves."
- Wil
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Unless, of course, your opinion is for/against God. Or, rather, subjects in general where there can not be no clear cut winner because there is no proof or defining reasoning for or against either side. Agnosticism for the win!There's no need to attack a person for stating opinions. However, when a person states their opinions, they put their opinions up for debate, simple as that. If you can't defend your opinion, then you really shouldn't have them.
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- Speaker for the Dead
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- Speaker for the Dead
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N.B. The following is not a rant directed primarily at you, Wil, but you happened to say the wrong thing at the wrong time.Unless, of course, your opinion is for/against God. Or, rather, subjects in general where there can not be no clear cut winner because there is no proof or defining reasoning for or against either side. Agnosticism for the win!
The study and theory of religion isn't just "what I believe." It's a complicated, interdisciplinary field involving philosophy, anthropology, linguistics, history, political science, literature, art, and a whole lot more. It has rules and guidelines and conventions just like any other field. You have to study and read and learn just like any other field. We don't just shoot from the hip like so many ignorant chickens, as so many people seem to think it's okay to do.
There's far more to the topic of religion that the average idiot on the street thinks, but for some reason only the loud, ignorant idiot on the street gets to talk. And somehow they think their opinion should count as much as someone who has poured years of their life into the field, because after all, "it's what I believe and you can't say anything against it!!!" Excuse me, but I don't walk into a psych class and assume that because I have a brain too I get to claim equal weight as the prof.
It's not just a free-for-all, and statements like you made, Wil, really get my goat. I find them academically offensive (not to be confused with personally offensive). No, there can't be a "winner." But opinions can be attacked or defended, because there ARE norms to the debate. And people who have studied and poured the time and effort into the field have the right to demand those norms be held to.
But then, most of the people I find worth talking to on the subject aren't interested in winning in the first place.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII
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