Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows SPOILER Thread

[starlooker]

*dies laughing*

"And in Whoville that day, Kreacher's heart grew three sizes. "

And I like Hermione so much better in this one.

"You know what this means, Harry? Your mother ... your mother had Farrah hair!"

[Qing_Jao]

That was pretty darn funny. Heh.

[Ua Lava]

Many miles away, Griphook the goblin is sitting in his living room gently stroking the Sword of Gryffindor.

Griphook: Precioussssssss.

Sword: Gotta go.

The sword disappears.

Genius. The funniest thing I've read all year.

[locke]

nice!

Hermione: Of course you don't. Dumbledore knew you were a moron the moment you stepped into Hogwarts, and asked me to befriend you and make sure you kept your grades up so you'd make it through long enough to fulfill his plan. Six years of my life wasted feeding you answers, you dim-witted sh*tard.

...

Even taking turns with the locket doesn't help matters much, and Ron takes it worst, reverting to emo-Ron from Book 4.

...

Harry: Ron, you should know better than to fear things like that. Why after you left, Hermione cried for weeks. She may've been on the rag for a few of those days, but not the whole time. She really missed you. And at night when I was standing watch, I'd hear her making weird moaning noises in her sleep and calling your name.

Ron: There's nothing between you.

Harry: She's like a sister to me. I think of her like you think of Ginny. And I think of Ginny like you think of Hermione.

Ron: You sonuvabitch!

...

Suddenly an idea hits Harry -- this is very painful as it doesn't happen often, but he recovers swiftly

...

Voldemort: Oh come on, you're just pulling this out of your ass.

[jotabe]

I have a question, not really about spoilers.
Why do they say that JKR has never met an adverb she never liked?

[Rei]

And you don't have to be a good chess player to know the NAMES of the pieces. Basic chess vocabulary is basically -- basic vocabulary. Unless she was not around and listening when they were playing or actually never learned anything about it -- yeah, right, she didn't know the definition. Or, as mentioned, via semantic networking, if she ever even heard the word around them when they were playing chess, she should've gone to that definition rather than, "bird" unless she'd just been reading "Birds of the World" or some such.

In the defense of Hermione's character, I thought of the bird first, too, and I both play chess and call that piece a rook. It didn't seem so far fetched to me that the Lovegoods may have a house shaped like a bird. In fact, it seemed downright in character for them.

[locke]

as a chess player who twitches when people say castle (unless they're actually castling), I also thought of a bird first too.

[locke]

I have a question, not really about spoilers.
Why do they say that JKR has never met an adverb she never liked?

I shall demonstrate

I opened Sorcerer's Stone to a completely random page (page 80)

Here we have:

...said Harry gloomily
...said Hagrid darkly

pg 81
...said Hagrid gruffly

pg 82.
... said Harry awkwardly

pg 83
... he said softly
...he added brightly
...said Mr. Ollivander sharply
...said Hagrid quickly

[Young Val]

I have a question, not really about spoilers.
Why do they say that JKR has never met an adverb she never liked?

I shall demonstrate

I opened Sorcerer's Stone to a completely random page (page 80)

Here we have:

...said Harry gloomily
...said Hagrid darkly

pg 81
...said Hagrid gruffly

pg 82.
... said Harry awkwardly

pg 83
... he said softly
...he added brightly
...said Mr. Ollivander sharply
...said Hagrid quickly

and on and on and on.


it's a very easy trap to fall into. adverbs are fantastic, but too much of a good thing, you know?

[starlooker]

And you don't have to be a good chess player to know the NAMES of the pieces. Basic chess vocabulary is basically -- basic vocabulary. Unless she was not around and listening when they were playing or actually never learned anything about it -- yeah, right, she didn't know the definition. Or, as mentioned, via semantic networking, if she ever even heard the word around them when they were playing chess, she should've gone to that definition rather than, "bird" unless she'd just been reading "Birds of the World" or some such.

In the defense of Hermione's character, I thought of the bird first, too, and I both play chess and call that piece a rook. It didn't seem so far fetched to me that the Lovegoods may have a house shaped like a bird. In fact, it seemed downright in character for them.

Unless you're actually LOOKING at the house, which is shaped like a rook. And around a well known chess player.

[Jebus]

Haven't read this whole thread yet, but I was dissapointed with a lot of the book.

Ok, yes, it was the seventh and last book, and Rowling has never shut up about how this was gonna be dark and gloomy and full of bad, sad things. But it *never* let up. From the wedding onwards they didn't have one moment where they were safe and happy and things were funny. I understand that's this book was Serious Business, but it didn't feel very Harry Potter-y without Rowling's quirky and light-hearted sense of humour. Speaking of Rowling's humour in this book, it pretty much sucked. Did any of Fred and George's jokes not come off as extremely forced and unfunny?

The thing that annoyed me the most in this book was Gringotts. WTF, mate? How f****** easy was it to break into that place? Imperio yourself a goblin, get some water thrown on you, walk past a blind dragon, get some ouchies from the hot gold and bam! you're rich. That place was the biggest f****** joke ever. And the way the dragon bit was described: "Oh a dragon is here, look at that, huh." IT'S A SH*TTING DRAGON! It's immense, they should be awed by it like they were back during the Triwizard tournament.

Also, YV brought up one thing that annoyed me too (well she brought up many), and that is Harry using Unforgiveable Curses. What happened to how bad and terrible those curses were? How it's UNFORGIVEABLE to use them? Apparently that's not important when they're needed as plot devices.

Unlike YV, though, the book didn't really grab me until the end (pretty boring till they go back to Hogwarts). Yes it was cheesy, yes it was pretty conventional, but I liked it. I liked how Voldemort acted, telling everyone Harry had been killed trying to escape, I liked the chapter with Harry being dead-but-not-dead and talking to Dumbledore (though Dumbledore is a bit too weepy for my liking) it was a nice break from HOGWARTS IS GETTING f****** UP AND PEOPLE ARE DIEING. I do agree it sucked we didn't get the climactic battles that had been built up throughout the six previous books, though.

One final nitpick: What is it with Rowling naming her books after really minor bits in the plot? The idea of the three items being a set named the Deathly Hallows was a f****** afterthought, it has no real bearing on the plot. The worst offender was the sixth book though. I was really hoping we could get something more on how the whole Half-Blood Prince subplot was in anyway relevant to anything in DH. But no, we don't get anything more than a chapter title referencing it, blech. Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows are more Sorcerer's Stone than Philosopher's Stone, if you catch my meaning.

BUT, it was Harry Potter, and I will of course reread it, which is pretty incredible for a book I had so many beefs with.

[Jebus]

One more thing... Teddy Lupin was 19 by the end of the book, just something to mull over.

[Young Val]

i've got hold of the audio book (after reading the actual book four times so far) and have been listening to it nights while i cook or clean a bit.

i like it so far. i'm hoping it will somehow soften my opinion of the book.

[starlooker]

The thing that annoyed me the most in this book was Gringotts. WTF, mate? How f****** easy was it to break into that place? Imperio yourself a goblin, get some water thrown on you, walk past a blind dragon, get some ouchies from the hot gold and bam! you're rich. That place was the biggest f****** joke ever. And the way the dragon bit was described: "Oh a dragon is here, look at that, huh." IT'S A SH*TTING DRAGON! It's immense, they should be awed by it like they were back during the Triwizard tournament.

YES!!! YES YES YES!!!

I could kiss you, I feel so f****** validated right now. Gringotts = Lame-ass place to hide a Horcrux. Yes.

And the Unforgivable Curses. For God's sake. Uncluding crucio, the one that made the Longbottoms' insane. Harry used crucio. And it worked. This bothers me. Apparently it doesn't bother him. That bothers me.

[Eaquae Legit]

I was actually kind of creeped out at how blithely people killed. The good guys!

[Claire]

I agree that its ridiculous that Harry uses unforgivable curses. Its so not in his character, and I cringed a little every time it happened. But it didn't make me dislike the book at all.

[anonshadow]

Honestly, I didn't find his use of the unforgiveable curses to be so strange. People do things in war they wouldn't do at any other time.

[Jebus]

I could kiss you, I feel so f****** validated right now.

Huh, that's weird, normally women kiss me before I validate them.

[Young Val]

Honestly, I didn't find his use of the unforgiveable curses to be so strange. People do things in war they wouldn't do at any other time.

but he uses Crucio because Amycus SPITS at Minervera. i mean, come on!!! that's hardly a death threat. and yes, he's a death eater, and yes, he's evil, but she's been working along side him all these months, holding her own. if he'd thrown a curse at her, then fine. but Crucio for spitting?! Stun him! Body-bind him! but Crucio, really?

i am very VERY disappointed.

[anonshadow]

Kelly, I fail to see how anything you said is a rebuttal to my point. I didn't say that under pressure of imminent threat people do things that they wouldn't ordinarily do; I said war. That includes even the times when someone is just stretched thin and tired and angry, even if they're not engaged in a deadly struggle for their life just then, at that exact moment.

[Young Val]

i wasn't trying to make a rebuttal so much as elaborate on why it bothered me; i should have made that clear. i do recognize that i'm just an emotional mess about this book and can't really contribute to logical discussion about it.

for me personally, the reason i can't reconcile his use of Crucio with war-time behavior (i may be able to do so with his use of Imperius) is because of his insistence to Disarm, rather than Stun, when attacked. even when cautioned against this he defiantly says that hurting people is Voldemort's job, not his. something about how he won't "blast people out of his way." Harry knows a dozen other ways at least to stop a DE in his tracks, not to mention McGonagall is an extremely capable witch who was not--at that precise moment--in any explicit danger. and Harry relishes what he's done. if he'd been a bit horrified at himself, then perhaps i could get over it, but i just can't.

i'm not trying to sway anyone's position, that's just my take on it, that's all.

[locke]

Yeah but Harry's not perfect, he makes a lot of bad decisions, but he also has a lot of really great impulses (giving the fake locket to Kreacher), he's every bit as inconsistent as a real person might be.

I do think Rowling wrote herself in a corner in Goblet of Fire by making them unforgiveable and an immediate life sentance for using them. Clearly other than AK they're not treated like that in the post Goblet books--but remember how horrifying they were when used in Goblet? They've become passe in later books. FiendFyre sounds worse than the cruciatus curse, and Sectum Sempra sounds worse than Imperio, perhaps only because they're such rarely used dark magic. We aren't told that much about dark magic, so the points where Harry does use it tends to fall into the handful of spells we know of. and I think Rowling partially wrote herself into a corner regarding what dark magic harry would use when he makes bad decisions hes bound to make.

Otoh I'd be a lot like Harry myself in those situations and completely understand where he's coming from when he does use those curses. I also completely missed the line "'there's the silver lining I'm looking for" until the second reread because all that mattered was the kiss (much like Harry I'm sure)--I am such a guy.

And they'd never have had a chance at Gringotts without a goblin to guide them, and I imagine a goblin doing what Griphook did is very nearly unprecedented in all of wizarding history.

[Young Val]

i know. and i do see the points that you and Elena are making.

my problem isn't that Harry's flawed (in fact Harry's always been flawed--as have most of Rowling's characters. it makes me like them more, as long as Harry isn't CAPSLOCKING) it's just that this particular moment (a very small one in a book so large) is one that i just cannot reconcile with his character, regardless of circumstance.

speaking of Sectumsempra, remember how panicked Harry was after he saw the devastating effects? it was war, then, too. and Harry was convinced that Draco was a Death Eater, or as good as. and Draco had/was about to (can't remember the specifics, and haven't got my book on me) curse Harry or hex him, giving Harry a direct reason to attack. And yet Harry was absolutely horrified when he saw what he'd done. if i'd seen even a flicker of that over his use of Crucio, i'd be able to understand it.

As much as it upset me when he tried to Crucio Bella in book 5, i could sort of understand that. 1. because he was in a moment of extreme grief, 2. because he failed in his attempt. i was shocked. but i could live with it, albeit uncomfortably. but the whole reason he failed then is because he didn't "really mean it." if he didn't "mean" it enough when Bella murder his godfather--an understandable reason to wish pure pain upon someone else--than how could he possibly "mean" it when a bumbling comedy-relief minon of evil spits on a thoroughly powerful witch? (it's not as though it were Ginny, or even Hermione--i can semi-see Harry getting defensive in that case, but even then i'd be displeased).



that's just me. it's just my gut. i don't know.

[Qing_Jao]

Honestly, I didn't find his use of the unforgiveable curses to be so strange. People do things in war they wouldn't do at any other time.

but he uses Crucio because Amycus SPITS at Minervera. i mean, come on!!! that's hardly a death threat. and yes, he's a death eater, and yes, he's evil, but she's been working along side him all these months, holding her own. if he'd thrown a curse at her, then fine. but Crucio for spitting?! Stun him! Body-bind him! but Crucio, really?

i am very VERY disappointed.

I don't know, I think the fact that Amychus had been on the tower when Dumbledore died made it kind of understandable. He had a history with them, and was just getting tired of it.
Although, cold use of something like this is more unnerving than the previous heated ones. I'm understanding that from what you're saying. I just think he remembers who they are and has a special place for anybody in that group, which is multiplied by his inability to do anything when he saw them the first time. It's payback time.
SARA

[anonshadow]

speaking of Sectumsempra, remember how panicked Harry was after he saw the devastating effects? it was war, then, too. and Harry was convinced that Draco was a Death Eater, or as good as. and Draco had/was about to (can't remember the specifics, and haven't got my book on me) curse Harry or hex him, giving Harry a direct reason to attack. And yet Harry was absolutely horrified when he saw what he'd done. if i'd seen even a flicker of that over his use of Crucio, i'd be able to understand it.

It was still different. It wasn't war in the same way; he had not heard, for example, his best friend getting tortured, nor had he seen Dumbledore killed. Yes, he suspected Draco was a Death Eater; he still had not seen many of the things he has seen now. He had not seen his girlfriend dodging Avada Kedavras left and right, nor had he seen Dumbledore murdered. He was not enemy number one to almost the entire wizarding world, and he had not heard old friends speak matter of factly about Amycus torturing them instead of killing them because they were pureblood. Sectumsempra scared him because he hadn't known what it was going to do, and while he heartily disliked Draco, he still didn't associate Draco with trying to murder his girlfriend or friends.

[Jebus]

And they'd never have had a chance at Gringotts without a goblin to guide them, and I imagine a goblin doing what Griphook did is very nearly unprecedented in all of wizarding history.

People who don't realise that the Gringotts bit was stupid are in denial. What exactly was so special about the Griphook case that couldn't have been replicable? Griphook is never said to be more greedy than any other goblin, and yet he's willing to help them break into Gringotts, steal what they wish, just so he can have a piece of goblin treasure back. Nevermind the fact that they wouldn't even need to bribe a goblin, since putting one under an Imperius Curse is apparently so easy that someone can do it perfectly on their first ever time trying the curse.

[starlooker]

I could kiss you, I feel so f****** validated right now.

Huh, that's weird, normally women kiss me before I validate them.

I'm just special that way. I insist on feeling validated prior to any kissing. Call it a quirk.

[Seiryu]

I can see young Albus getting picked on for his name. I mean, it's fine for an old man that goes by his last name, but I felt it weird that Harry called his son that. And to make matters worse, Severus as a middle name? He's getting the crap beaten out of him at Hogwarts...or the magic, maybe.

[neo-dragon]

Seeing as how everyone knows who Albus Dumbledore was, and how close he was to Harry, and I assume that in the years since Voldemort's downfall Harry would have let everyone know the truth about Snape, I don't think that young Albus would get picked on for having those names. His only problem would probably be that with the name Albus Severus Potter he'll feel he has to live up to the legends of three heroes.

[starlooker]

I keep wishing to god I could have some of these characters as therapy patients. Including Albus Severus Potter when he's a 23 year old neurotic underachieving junkie.

[Seiryu]

Can you imagine you and brother being named after a married couple, though? I've always thought that was a bit disturbing.

[neo-dragon]

I never thought about that...

You know, in general I'm not a big fan of naming kids after significant people from your own life. Maybe a middle name, but their first names should be original.

[locke]

Griphook intended to get things his ways, he never expected the kids to get out, he just thought it'd be a fine ruse to get the sword back. He held up his end of the bargain getting them to the vault, but then the deal was sealed.

Albus shortens just as well to Al as Albert does, I imagine very few people would call him Albus.

I agree that near relatives should be limited to middle names though, I've got enough family members to keep straight without multiple iterations of the same first name.

Although I know I will be tempted to name my first son after my maternal grandfather, Mert. A name I've never come across anywhere else (his middle name was Junior), other than his own father. Though I know I'd never get away with naming him that, it might be a good misdirecting maneuver to getting Atticus into the name negotiation debate. My other grandfather was named Ernest, so my brother and I joke about our kids being named Mert and Ernie.

(I'm serious about Atticus though. I love the name, I love the character/book he's from. And really, how can you go wrong with a name that can be shortened to Cuss?)

[Seiryu]

Don't put too much thought into my above statement. I have this weird thing about not being able to date anyone with the same first name as any of my female relatives. Do you know how many girls that rules out because my sister's name is Heather? I mean, there was a couple of girls I liked back in the day named Heather that I couldn't bring myself to ask out because of that small thing.

My dad felt the same way about naming, though. I think my mom considered naming me Roy once, but he didn't want a junior, so Roy became my middle name. I thought about getting a book published with my middle name and last name just to irk him.

Going back to Harry Potter naming, I liked how Hermione and Ron's children weren't named after anyone they knew. Hugo and Rose...that's pretty good. I can't think of anyone in the series named that. I think, though, that Ron had thought it was funny to have a girl named Rose if Harry had one named Lily. Just seems like something Ron would do.

With Harry's logic in naming, though, I can only guess that James's middle name is Sirius and Lily's middle name is Hermione or Ginny. Why name only one of your kids after two people you lost? Why not all of them?

[locke]

Just seems like something Ron would do.

Now that makes sense.

With Harry's logic in naming

I agree that James' middle name is Sirius, but can't you picture the conversation with Ginny. Ginny says she thinks she should have some input on naming their boys, and Harry says, "fine, we'll flip for middle or first name on each one, but we'll need at least four boys so I can use up all my choices." Ginny then relents, thinking about her brothers, and that she does not want that many kids, much less that many boys!



One thing I did not like that JK recently said was that muggleborns do in fact have a wizarding ancestor somewhere. I think that's a bit depressing and much less magical, actually.