Harry Potter 7

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Young Val
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Postby Young Val » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:48 pm

Hermione's safe, i'm positive. and i'm preeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure Ron is too. i just...worry.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby peterlocke123 » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:48 am

What about Pettigrew? I think he'll die for sure. Just a gut feeling.
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Postby Ithilien » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:26 pm

I'm kind of hoping that he would die in her arms while professing his eternal love for her but it sounds just a little cheesy.
You mean something like this?


Her: "Hush-a-bye, my dearest Ron,
You won't feel any pain
A little fall of rain
Can hardly hurt you now
I'm here

Him: "That's all I need to know"

Her: "I will stay with you
Till you are sleeping"

Him: "And rain"

Her: "And rain"

Him: "Will make the flowers..."

Her: "Will make the flowers..."

[His body goes limp in her arms.]

Her: "grow..."
Precisely!

And maybe Pettigrew will end somewhat like Wormtongue where he almost reforms...but dies first.

I keep thinking Ron is going to die: but hoping he won't. With him being the the complete loyal friend and the self-sacrificial "knight" his destiny seems to pointing at dying sooner rather than later.
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Postby hive_king » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:37 pm

I was thinking, I could see it coming down to Harry having to choose between not being able to save Ron and saving the world, and Ron volunterring to martyr himself, so to speak. It makes a lot of sense that Harry would not be able to win without losing someone very close to him. Sure, Sirius and Dumbledore were close, but they were nowhere near as dear to Harry as Ron.
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Postby Young Val » Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:00 pm

And maybe Pettigrew will end somewhat like Wormtongue where he almost reforms...but dies first.

i doubt he'll reform. the path of redemption has already been clearly laid out for both Snape and Draco, and Pettigrew has never shown any interest in anything other than catering to those who are best in a position to protect him and provide for him. such a person can't reform. even if he did join the Order or fought Voldemort in some other way, it would only be because he felt siding with Voldemort was no longer to his advantage. he owes Harry a life-debt and i'm certain he'll make good on it. but out of neccessity and self-interest, and not a desire to do good.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby eriador » Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:09 pm

I was thinking, I could see it coming down to Harry having to choose between not being able to save Ron and saving the world, and Ron volunterring to martyr himself, so to speak. It makes a lot of sense that Harry would not be able to win without losing someone very close to him. Sure, Sirius and Dumbledore were close, but they were nowhere near as dear to Harry as Ron.
I would kill Ginny... but then again I am one for dark endings.

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Postby Young Val » Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:19 pm

...but how would Ginny's death serve the story?
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby eriador » Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:44 pm

It would make the ending incredibly sad.

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Postby Young Val » Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:52 pm

yes, but lots of things would make the ending incredibly sad. if Vernon Dursley showed up with a machine gun and murdered absolutely everyone it would make the ending incredibly sad.

...but it wouldn't serve any purpose within the story.


writing is not like real life. it is deliberate. major things, like character death, must be done with a purpose. must somehow serve the story.


i don't see how Ginny's death would do so, particularly when her survival would serve so much more.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby eriador » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:04 pm

Not true. If you were going for a truly sad ending you could leave the reader with a tragic hero, somebody who's struggle to overcome evil has destroyed all those around him, and is now alone, loveless and washed up. You could do that with Harry, but not if Ginny lived.

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Postby Young Val » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:10 pm

yes, but the series is not a tragedy... that ending would be completely ill-suited for the series as it now stands.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby eriador » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:14 pm

...but then again I am one for dark endings.

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Postby Young Val » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:25 pm

my fault. i know better.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby puppets » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:05 am

yes, but lots of things would make the ending incredibly sad. if Vernon Dursley showed up with a machine gun and murdered absolutely everyone it would make the ending incredibly sad.

...but it wouldn't serve any purpose within the story.


writing is not like real life. it is deliberate. major things, like character death, must be done with a purpose. must somehow serve the story.


i don't see how Ginny's death would do so, particularly when her survival would serve so much more.
If Vernon Dursley showed up and did that at the end of the book, I am pretty sure that J.K. Rowlings would go down in history for being the biggest jerk in the 21st century. Oh man... *laughs* I hope thats how it ends now.
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Postby eriador » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:12 am

No. The wizards have more than enough skill to deal with that. For example, there's too much magic in the air around Hogwarts for muggle devices to work, so I'm fairly certain that wherever all of the characters would gather, Dursley would have a hell of a time getting rid of them.

On a slightly unrelated sidenote, I think that the Dursleys will show up at the end of the book, 'cause Petunia is such a squib I don't know what to do with myself.

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Postby Petra456 » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:47 am

J.K. has also said Petuna isn't a Squib.
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Postby hive_king » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:35 pm

You're a squib!
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby Rei » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:03 pm

I still can't quite squash the hope that Voldemort wins and, with his adversary now dead, has far too much time on his hands so he writes an evil broadway show about his life and makes his death-eaters perform it on a continent-wide tour.
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Postby Young Val » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:08 pm

as long as there's a 25 page description of Hermione's magical makeover ("And what happened then? / Well, at Hogwarts they say / That Hermione's small bust / Grew THREE SIZES that day!") including details about her all-new wardrobe and how every boy in school is totally in love with her and she becomes head girl and shares a special dormitory with Draco so they can make with teh love!hate!sex!

as long as she doesn't forget that part... i'm good.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby jotabe » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:29 pm

Nooooooooooooooooooooo :shock:
A Hermione/Draco shipper! :?

*runs away scared*

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Postby Young Val » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:16 pm

er... just to clarify... that entire post was nauseatingly sarcastic.

i adore hermione. bossy, big-haired, buck-toothed, book-totin' hermione. and ron is the best thing to happen to fiction since peter pan. they belong together.

i'm Hr/R all the way. cause, you know, i actually read (and understand) the books. :D
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby Petra456 » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:22 pm

You're a squib!
Don't make me cry.
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And there will come a time, you'll see, with no more tears.
And love will not break your heart, but dismiss your fears.
Get over your hill and see what you find there,
With grace in your heart and flowers in your hair.

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Postby jotabe » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:49 am

oh, ok then, Val :D I know it was a joke, but still... every single suggestion of D/Hr makes me shiver... she is my absolutely favourite char... ^_^

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Postby Mahatma » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:55 am

haha yeah... so many of those ships I just can't understand. Draco/Hermione? Draco/Ginny? Hermione/Snape?!?!?! ewwww.... Probably a lot of the people who ship Draco/somebody-inappropriate are just attracted to Tom Felton. :stoned:

edited to avoid a double post:

Ahem.
I want him to die because I have a melodramatic yearning for a death scene. And the prophecy in the fifth book says only one of Harry and Voldemort can live. Or is it that neither can live while the other survives? Oh God, what is it? The fans will kill me if I’ve got that wrong.
Personally, Dan, I want to kill you more because of your lack of concern for Harry's life, and my fear that you're jinxing it for those of us who actually want Harry to live. :x

And if that weren't enough...
Jo came down to the set at one point and I said, 'Oh hello, why are you here today?' And she said, 'Oh I just needed a break from the book - Dumbledore's giving me a lot of trouble.' And I said, 'But isn't he dead?' And she said, 'Well, yeah, but it's more complex...' I was like, [briskly] 'OK, I'm not gonna ask anything else!'
You had a chance to extract info (not that she would've given in), and you didn't?!

*sigh*... That crazy kid. :roll:
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Postby peterlocke123 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:42 pm

haha yeah... so many of those ships I just can't understand. Draco/Hermione? Draco/Ginny? Hermione/Snape?!?!?! ewwww.... Probably a lot of the people who ship Draco/somebody-inappropriate are just attracted to Tom Felton. :stoned:

edited to avoid a double post:

Ahem.
I want him to die because I have a melodramatic yearning for a death scene. And the prophecy in the fifth book says only one of Harry and Voldemort can live. Or is it that neither can live while the other survives? Oh God, what is it? The fans will kill me if I’ve got that wrong.
Personally, Dan, I want to kill you more because of your lack of concern for Harry's life, and my fear that you're jinxing it for those of us who actually want Harry to live. :x

And if that weren't enough...
Jo came down to the set at one point and I said, 'Oh hello, why are you here today?' And she said, 'Oh I just needed a break from the book - Dumbledore's giving me a lot of trouble.' And I said, 'But isn't he dead?' And she said, 'Well, yeah, but it's more complex...' I was like, [briskly] 'OK, I'm not gonna ask anything else!'
You had a chance to extract info (not that she would've given in), and you didn't?!

*sigh*... That crazy kid. :roll:

YESSSSSS...maybe Dumbledore isn't dead! Hahaaaaaa, I knew it all along.
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Postby eriador » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:13 pm

Haha. I didn't need to read that to know that D.R. was an idiot. Ditto LooLoo though.

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Postby jotabe » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:48 pm

Probably Dumbledore left a kind of testament-guide for Harry in a pensieve, or something like that. I mean, Voldemort could do it with the Diary from The Chamber of Secrets, when he was just a brat... i don't see why Dumbledore wouldn't be able to do something similar.

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Postby anonshadow » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:26 am

I just reread OotP, and continue to be bugged about part of it.

Umbridge. She is convinced that Harry is communicating with Sirius, and she keeps trying to catch Sirius through Harry--but as far as she knows, Sirius is a mass murderer who wants to eat Harry for lunch! So, what, does she know he's innocent? Does she think that Harry is all "whoop-dee-doo, you killed my parents!" and in return Sirius is all "whoop-dee-doo, you destroyed my master and got me sent to Azkaban for twelve years as a result!"?

(Rhetorical questions. I know she's just a crazy. But... gagh.)



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Postby Young Val » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:50 pm

i think Harry's motives for talking to Sirius would be irrelevant as far as Umbridge is concerned. if Harry is conspiring with a "known" mass-murderer, then all the more reason to hate him. she's never seemed to be one to question the rules, in my mind. she simply worships and enforces them.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby Rei » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:50 pm

Until that line I was going to say, "Well, she is crazy..." :stoned:

I suppose not all authors can be totally consistant, alas.
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Postby anonshadow » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:13 pm

Agreed, Kelly. It just bothers me, because her logic is so off.

Rei, I'm not sure it's JKR being inconsistent as much as Umbridge just being a disgusting pig. After all, she does do a lot of other irrational things...

... like call centaurs names...



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Postby Rei » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:15 pm

True, there is that. Although, I'd be more apt to say it's something JKR didn't do deliberately which still worked out well enough. But that may be due to my suspicion that a lot of things in writing are really conveniant accidents (or maybe I'm just a really lucky bad writer).
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Postby anonshadow » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:23 pm

I generally think many good things in writing are either conveinent accidents or intuition, but she's so meticulous that I'm inclined to believe that it is neither.

I do find it funny, though, either way, every time I reread that book:

"WHERE IS SIRIUS BLACK?"
"... that mass murderer who wants to kill me?"
"YES, I KNOW YOU'RE HIS BESTEST FRIEND!"
"............."



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Postby locke » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:45 pm

How Harry kills Voldemort is something that's been bugging me. as well as how to destroy horcruxes...

Harry killed the first part of Voldemort (and likely the part that was still equal to one half of his soul, if it was the first horcrux) with the basilisk fang, and he killed Voldemort/Slytherin's avatar, the basilisk, with a certain deus ex machina magic sword.

So Harry either kills Voldemort with a magic sword or somehow unexpectedly turns Voldemort's powers against him due to the link with the scar (also foreshadowed with the priori incantatum scene at the end of Goblet of Fire). Harry has already shown himself to be more resourceful (and stronger than Voldy) at this sort of fighting/strategy.

My guess is that Nagini gets taken out with the gryffindor sword, at least.

But how to take out the other horcruxes, it's a potentially lethal job, nearly killing Dumbledore to destroy the Gaunt Ring.

Chucking them through the veil might be the most effective way to get rid of them.

I really hope Harry doesn't kill Voldemort by opening the locked hopedoor (Pandora's Box/Source of Magic thinger) that melted his handy knife at the department of mysteries in book five.

And knocking Voldemort through the veil would be pretty lame.

Stabbing Voldemort with a snake fang would be kinda cool, but unlikely.

Harry can't use avada kedavra, but there are obviously ways of subduing dark wizards, how Dumbledore defeated Grindlewald, for instance, or subdued the deatheaters with and attempted to use on Voldemort (I can't wait to see all this in the film). I don't think any of these will work.

perhaps Gollum will cause the ring to be cast into the fires though...

interpret that as you will. But personally I'd prefer Snape to killing Voldy (and dying with him) to Pettigrew.

As to the diary horcrux (there was a question on this a couple threads back). I think it was made with the murder of his father (between sixth and seventh year), during his seventh year (after learning from Slughorn the basics and being pointed in the proper direction of magical research/investigation) to take. I think it was probably his first horcrux, and I don't think the murder had to be fresh, the effects of it being long reaching. And so if you come down to it, the diary was the biggest chunk of Voldemort's soul out there, equal to 1/2 of it, and it's already been taken out by a twelve year old. :)

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Postby starlooker » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:50 pm

I've been pondering the where of the Horcruxes. I'm pretty well assuming there's one in Godric's Hollow. Otherwise, I'm not sure.
There's another home somewhere,
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