MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Talk about anything under the sun or stars - but keep it civil. This is where we really get to know each other. Everyone is welcome, and invited!
User avatar
Young Val
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3166
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:00 pm
Title: Papermaster
First Joined: 12 Sep 2000
Location: from New York City to St. Paul, MN (but I'm a Boston girl at heart).
Contact:

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Young Val » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:57 pm

ETA: Oh, by the way, I totally agree with you about the horrific names she gives her characters, and in that sense, it's a mercy "boy" and "girl" are left up to the imagination :)

True! Lest we be saddled with "Albus Severus."
What kind of epilogue would have felt right to you?
That is, of course, the logical question. And one I can't really answer.

Essentially, I want to have a feeling at the end of a book. Something that lingers with me as I turn the final page. Something that lets me know the book is over and complete and that the ending--whether I liked it or not--is the right ending to the story. And the feeling always varies from book to book, but it's always familar and recognizable as an End Of Book Feeling.

At the end of MOCKINGJAY I wanted to feel (and I know I'm not going to be able to articulate this well; I apologize) that it was worth it. "It" being all the events over the course of the series. I wanted to feel that when everything was all tallied up that there was something good eeking out on top. And I really, really, really wanted, no, needed Katniss to be proactive emotionally. And she just wasn't.

You describe the epilogue in positive terms. You see it as showing that Katniss had healed enough, made enough peace with her life and her past and her self to marry Peta and have children with him. That those acts demonstate how far she's come, and that by seeing that as the outcome, we can intuit that that growth and change has taken place.

But that's not the way it reads to me. When I say the epilogue is tragic, I'm not being hyperbolic. It reads to me like true tragedy. People who have been so very broken that they're now shells of their former selves. Katniss is a zombie in the epilogue. She has become her mother, vacant, unfocused, locked in sadness. She has become the thing she fought against--in so many different ways--for her entire life. And to me, that is so, so heartbreakingly sad. I don't believe that she had children because she put herself back together piece by piece and grew and changed and got to a place where she wanted to have children. I think Peeta got to that place and wore her down. And Katniss didn't feel she could deny him that. Her whole tone in that epilogue is one of utter detachment. She isn't present in her life. it is just another one of the many things that have happened to her.

I can't pinpoint how it should have been written instead, because if it were up to me, MOCKINGJAY would have been written differently from page one. I can highlight one thing about the ending that I would abslutely change, something that, for me, would make a significant difference in how I interpreted the close of the book.

The real/not real/love you exchange.

I'm paraphrasing because I'm at work and don't have my book with me, but if memory serves it goes like this:

Peeta: You love me. Real or not real?
Katniss: Real.

That's not enough for me. Not nearly enough. I want it to go like this:

Katniss: I love you.
Peeta: Real or not real?
Katniss: Real.


It's a small change, and people might argue it's a needless one, but it is so very, very important to me as a reader (and kind of, to get a little snobby, to the integrity of the story as a whole) for Katniss to overcome one damn emotional hurdle. She puts herself out there physically all the time. She holds all of her cards SO CLOSE TO THE CHEST emotionally, and I really and truly believe that being emotionally vulnerable and owning what she feels, admitting to it and expressing it, instead of hiding from it or going with the flow of it, is the thing she has to learn at the end of the series. In strictly writing/story structure/character arc terms, I think that without that development, her character is deflated, stagnant, ineffective. I think it HAD to happen and I think it had to happen explicitly. For Collins to leave us to assume that such changes happened offpage in some nebulous future is unfair and cheap, in my opinion.
Last edited by Young Val on Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

Jayelle
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4027
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:32 pm
Title: Queen Ducky
First Joined: 25 Feb 2002
Location: The Far East (of Canada)

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Jayelle » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:58 pm

Oooh, I totally agree that phrasing would be better. This is why you should be paid the big bucks.
One Duck to rule them all.
--------------------------------
It needs to be about 20% cooler.

User avatar
starlooker
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3823
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:19 pm
Title: Dr. Mom
First Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Home. With cats who have names.

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby starlooker » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:42 pm

I do like that change in phrasing. It's subtle enough that I could have bought it, as long as there was absolutely nothing else added.

I didn't read the same amount of passivity or tragedy into the epilogue that you did. I may go back and re-read it and articulate more thoughts about it later. Here are my initial thoughts.

For me, I think that it's as positive as it can be, given everything that's happened. I agree that they have been permanently scarred, and that is tragic. But not unrealistically so. And I also disagree, in a way that's hard to explain, with the description of them as shells.

It just would be wrong, in my mind, for this to end in some way that was, for lack of a better word, fake. f****** with people's lives to the degree that theirs were DOES drastically change and scar people. Growing up in a place where your children could be taken from you on a whim probably DOES make it hard -- much more than hard -- to attach rather than detach. Step-by-step growth into a life that's any semblance of normal, that has relationships is a huge, huge victory. Facing the fear that she has of having children and going through it anyhow and then finding it worthwhile is meaningful. (And I disagree that Peeta could have worn her down on that point if something hadn't changed within her. Some willingness to face fear again, in a different way. I just -- I can't imagine being willing to give birth in that world, in her context, and risk losing your children if there is not some hopefulness inside.)

It's the editor/English major in you that's hating this book. It's the clinician in me that is appreciating it. Appreciating that the massive, massive hell they went through -- on top of Katniss's horrible pseudo-childhood -- doesn't lead to a happy ending, but does lead to a positive one. It does lead to a new generation who, yes, are going to grow up with a mother who has massive issues. And, yet, are going to grow up better and stronger and healthier than she did. With no looming hunger games, whippings in the square, or threat of whipping for getting daily bread. And hopefully it will be even better for her grandchildren.
There's another home somewhere,
There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
into the wind, unafraid.
There's another life out there...

~~Mary Chapin Carpenter

User avatar
Young Val
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3166
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:00 pm
Title: Papermaster
First Joined: 12 Sep 2000
Location: from New York City to St. Paul, MN (but I'm a Boston girl at heart).
Contact:

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Young Val » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:26 am

It's the editor/English major in you that's hating this book. It's the clinician in me that is appreciating it.

So true. And at least now I can see where you're coming from, even if I struggle to get there myself.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

User avatar
OSCjunkie
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:01 pm

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby OSCjunkie » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:13 am

Wow! I didin't read every reply, but am I the only one who enjoyed it? Yes, parts were rushed and the result was muddy, but I liked her choice to kill Snow and go home with Peeta. It was always Peeta. For once (and possibly the only time in recent YA) the persistent love of the nice guy beat out the sexy, brooding guy. For once Jace/Edward lost. I also like how Peeta continues to deal through the hijacking spells like a real vet with PTSD. Oh well, maybe I'm alone.
"I aim to misbehave."- Mal, Serenity.

User avatar
Young Val
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3166
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:00 pm
Title: Papermaster
First Joined: 12 Sep 2000
Location: from New York City to St. Paul, MN (but I'm a Boston girl at heart).
Contact:

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Young Val » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:24 am

I don't think you're alone, OSCJ (Am I right in remembering that you also go by Trav?). Kirsten ("starlooker") rather enjoyed it. I love the first two books in the series, but have serious issues with MOCKINGJAY. (This tends to happen with me and the final installment of book series. See also, DEATHLY HALLOWS). As a Writing Major and English Minor with a career in book publishing (although I'm on a bit of a hiatus at the moment due to a drastic relocation) it's sort of impossible for me not to apply my editorial filter to everything I read. So in that sense, yup. Really did not enjoy MOCKINGJAY.

But still, no one has shared their thoughts on the teaser trailer! Watch it! Do it now!
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

steph
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 2454
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:36 pm
Title: Rocky Mountain Mama
First Joined: 0- 8-2000
Location: colorado, baby!

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby steph » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:40 am

All my friends were SO excited by the trailer. I was "Meh." It really showed me NONE of the power and intensity of the book. It felt like they decided to throw some random stuff together just to get the trailer released. I'm fairly certain that if a person has not read the book, that trailer will do NOTHING to convince them to see the movie or read the book. And isn't that supposed to be the point of a teaser?
"When I look back on my ordinary, ordinary life,
I see so much magic, though I missed it at the time." - Jamie Cullum

User avatar
Young Val
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3166
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:00 pm
Title: Papermaster
First Joined: 12 Sep 2000
Location: from New York City to St. Paul, MN (but I'm a Boston girl at heart).
Contact:

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Young Val » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:41 am

All my friends were SO excited by the trailer. I was "Meh." It really showed me NONE of the power and intensity of the book. It felt like they decided to throw some random stuff together just to get the trailer released. I'm fairly certain that if a person has not read the book, that trailer will do NOTHING to convince them to see the movie or read the book. And isn't that supposed to be the point of a teaser?

YES. I agree entirely.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

User avatar
OSCjunkie
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:01 pm

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby OSCjunkie » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:46 pm

All my friends were SO excited by the trailer. I was "Meh." It really showed me NONE of the power and intensity of the book. It felt like they decided to throw some random stuff together just to get the trailer released. I'm fairly certain that if a person has not read the book, that trailer will do NOTHING to convince them to see the movie or read the book. And isn't that supposed to be the point of a teaser?
The trailor does nothing for me either. I am amped because I know the book. Has anyone else heard the rumor of the fourth book? Suzanne Collins said that she wanted to end it definitively with no chance of another sequel, but I got a friend who said that now that there is big movie money involved she is thinking about a fourth. The rumor inside the rumor is that it will be a prequel. Anybody got anything on this??

P.S. Yes, Val I am Trav, and as an English teacher by trade, I understand. I guess my exitement was great enough to overlook mistakes but it was definitely a missed oportunity on SC's part.
"I aim to misbehave."- Mal, Serenity.

powerfulcheese04
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 1392
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:49 pm
Title: Momma Cat

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby powerfulcheese04 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:19 pm

I just recently read this series.

I found Hunger Games incredibly gripping, and thrilling, and essentially just consuming. Nate also read it. He finished it in 4 days on our honeymoon (which is seriously a record for him. He pretty much never reads anything.)

I found Catching Fire entertaining but less (forgive the pun) firey than HG.

I found Mockingjay... disappointing. I don't know. It just didn't capture me the way the others did. And by that point I was sick of Katniss. Something about her just really rubs me the wrong way for most of this book.. and probably for some of CF too. Having read them all in the course of about a week and a half, I have a hard time breaking them up in my head. I just know that Katniss ended up feeling shallow, self absorbed, hateful and just annoying. I'm not sure I bought into the epilouge, either. (I really like Kelly's rephrasing. I think that would have gone a long way for me.)
-Kim

User avatar
Young Val
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3166
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:00 pm
Title: Papermaster
First Joined: 12 Sep 2000
Location: from New York City to St. Paul, MN (but I'm a Boston girl at heart).
Contact:

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Young Val » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:50 pm




The first official full-length Hunger Games trailer!

My initial thoughts:

It's not as terrible as the teaser is.

Jennifer Lawrence doesn't make me roll my eyes nearly as much as I expected she would, so...that's a plus?

Lenny Kravitz has won me over. On the other hand, I'm not at all pleased with the brief glimpse we get of Haymitch.

I was initially shocked that the coloring is so stark. Effie is just so....pink. But that's sort of the whole horrible, garish point, I suppose. Still, I did expect the scenes in the Capitol to be a bit more technicolor.

The scenes at the training center are nuts (and I don't think I mean that in a good way?)

Overall, it's not nearly as EPIC as I think it should have been, but I am no longer afraid the whole thing will be an utter disaster. It grows on me with each rewatch.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

User avatar
neo-dragon
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2516
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:26 pm
Title: Huey Revolutionary
Location: Canada

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby neo-dragon » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:15 pm

I actually really liked that trailer. Makes me want to read the books again.
"Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic."
- Frank Herbert's 'Dune'

User avatar
Luet
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4511
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:49 pm
Title: Bird Nerd
First Joined: 01 Jul 2000
Location: Albany, NY

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Luet » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:23 pm

I loved the trailer but I don't think too hard about these things. It made both my husband and I really excited about watching the movie.
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer." - Albert Camus in Return to Tipasa

Gravity Defier
Commander
Commander
Posts: 8017
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:32 pm
Title: Ewok in Tauntaun-land

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:26 pm

The coloring and other visuals were gorgeous, I thought. I'm not sure about Jennifer Lawrence yet but I don't think she's terrible, I just don't think she was the best fit, from what I've seen. I'm excited to see the movie and thankfully, I don't remember enough of the details of the book to hold inaccuracies against them.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

User avatar
OSCjunkie
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:01 pm

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby OSCjunkie » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:45 am

I for one am stoked! I think the trailer looks amazing. I actually taught the book (I used to be an English teacher) in my 6th grade gifted class and the only incosistencies I can find are so tiny they don't matter. I think fans of the book are really going to love this. And not in a Twilight any movie is better than none sort of way. I can't wait!
"I aim to misbehave."- Mal, Serenity.

User avatar
starlooker
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3823
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:19 pm
Title: Dr. Mom
First Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Home. With cats who have names.

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby starlooker » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:11 am

Just reread the trilogy.

Still hold to all my previous opinions, only more strongly.

New thought about why I like this book. It completely and utterly shatters the lie that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Few sayings that I detest more, and few books/movies that are willing to give lie to it.
There's another home somewhere,
There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
into the wind, unafraid.
There's another life out there...

~~Mary Chapin Carpenter

User avatar
Tiny genius
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:59 am
Location: Starship Herodotus

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Tiny genius » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:15 am

I haven't read many of the posts and it's been a while since I read MOCKINGJAY but I thought I'd say this:

Prim is drawn for the Games > Katniss takes her place > Katniss defies Capitol and becomes face of rebellion > rebellion ends but Prim is dead, thus... the whole thing was, in essence, to save Prim from the Games and she ended up dying anyway = pointless story. Rather annoying really.

I did enjoy the first two books and bits of the third, but I agree that it could have been better. Why is it that in final books the authors seem to fall off the rails? Gillian Rubinstein with 'Shinkei', JK Rowling with 'The Deathly Hallows' and now Collins with 'Mocking Jay'.
"Other universes may exist, but ours seems to be based on war and games" - William S. Burroughs

User avatar
neo-dragon
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2516
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:26 pm
Title: Huey Revolutionary
Location: Canada

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby neo-dragon » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:25 am


Prim is drawn for the Games > Katniss takes her place > Katniss defies Capitol and becomes face of rebellion > rebellion ends but Prim is dead, thus... the whole thing was, in essence, to save Prim from the Games and she ended up dying anyway = pointless story. Rather annoying really.
Well, there was the whole overthrowing of an oppressive government that resulted from it, so in the grand scheme of things, I think that Katniss' participation in the Games accomplishes more than saving one girl.
"Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic."
- Frank Herbert's 'Dune'

JohnPaulWiggin
Launchie
Launchie
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:55 am
First Joined: 06 Aug 2012

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby JohnPaulWiggin » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:19 pm

Figure I'll chime in here. I've read the first two twice, MJ once, and its been a few months since I read any of them. I also only saw the movie once, on opening weekend so that's been a while too. I'm going to take the side of the ones who liked Mockingjay. I'll readily admit that it had its flaws and it was my least favorite of the three books. I think some of the criticisms are unfair, it sounds like some of you didn't like it because it wasn't written the way you would have written it. I think it was Young Val who said she would have liked Katniss to become "emotionally pro-active" I think was the phrase you used. I completely agree that this would have been a valid, and perhaps even welcome, ending to the story. But that wasn't how Collins saw the character. Perhaps it was Katniss' nature to begin with, or perhaps her point was that the trauma Katniss went through could never be completely recovered from.

I also felt like her just ending up with Peeta and not actually choosing him was a let down, but I really can't think of a better way to end it without compromising Collins' version of Katniss. I was always "team Gale" but even still I can't really see a way that it would have worked for them to end up together. Katniss vowed to save Peeta in the arena, but she ends up saving him for the rest of his life. And I hate to say it but I liked having Prim die. Obviously that sounds wrong, but I thought it was a good move for the book. As was mentioned earlier, it provides motivation for Katniss to do what she does. It also felt plausible, made perfect sense to me that Prim would do what she could to get involved. It was also just another way to hammer home how evil the "bad guy" was.

I have a question for you all: What did you think about Katniss and company deciding to hold a hunger games for the children of the capital people? I was shocked when she voted 'yes,' Prim's death or not. I didn't think she would ever put anyone through a hunger games. ESPECIALLY innocent children, if anything why not put the capital people themselves into the games?

I'm surprised there isn't much conversation about the movie, none actually. Maybe there's a thread for it somewhere else? Anyway, someone (Young Val again? not sure) mentioned that in the trailer you really liked Lenny Kravitz but didn't like Haymitch. First off, I completely agree about Kravitz, I thought he was an absolutely perfect Cinna. As for Haymitch, I love Woody Harrelson and I thought he made it a pretty good character, even if I admit it's not quite what I imagined while reading the book the way Kravitz was for Cinna.

Gravity Defier
Commander
Commander
Posts: 8017
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:32 pm
Title: Ewok in Tauntaun-land

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Gravity Defier » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:29 pm

Here you are, JPW. :)
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

User avatar
Tiny genius
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:59 am
Location: Starship Herodotus

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Tiny genius » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:31 pm

I didn't like Prim's death but agree that it makes sense. I mean, I hate the typical "good guys win and everybody lives" scenario, someone close to home had to die.

[edit] That's what I was forgetting! I meant to also say that, while I knew that Katniss would end up with Peeta, I liked Gale better and wanted her to be with him. I too didn't like the way that Peeta and Kantniss were just together at the end "because they were".
"Other universes may exist, but ours seems to be based on war and games" - William S. Burroughs

User avatar
locke
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 3046
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:07 pm
Contact:

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby locke » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:14 pm

So I read the Hunger Games in a few weeks after I started it. I'd already seen the movie. I thought the book, like the movie, was relatively cute. An interesting 'safe' variant of Battle Royale where the protagonist doesn't really have to kill anyone despite being well-equipped with skills that would make her far deadlier than the average teenager of her world. I appreciated that the book focused more on the psychological trauma of Katniss before the games and how this pre-existing trauma plays into the development of how she experiences all the other traumas the Capital puts her through (and make no mistake, putting someone on-screen like that where they have no say over their own bodies is a whole separate set of shattering experiences, which Collins smartly hides underneath the headline trauma of 'fight to the death'). But I thought the mileau was poorly crafted (if the entire district 12 can fit into a square and this is also true of other districts the population is hopelessly and shockingly small) and the basic premise that the Hunger Games are an effective deterrent of rebellion to be rather fatally flawed, because in any human society, such a set up would be a catalytic accelerant of rebellion. You'd be hard pressed to find a better way to foment rebellion than the Hunger Games.

I think if I hadn't seen the movie I would have been doubtful that there was even a love triangle possible. There's a boy in the book for three pages who is interested in Katniss and then the boy interested in Katniss who is in the book for 300 pages, and she doesn't reciprocate a single positive emotion towards either of them, she merely utilizes memories of Gale as a convenient crutch to not attach herself to Peeta just as she utilizes Peeta to facilitate her (and his) survival to the end of the games. Not much of a love triangle, more like they're tools she can use to either protect her psyche or protect her body. Gale is just a way to convince herself it's okay to build a wall to keep Peeta out. I figured Gale will be unable to relate to how this experience changes her, which will draw her back to Peeta who will probably reject her because that's a bad reason. but again, it's not even a love triangle in this book, I figured it will be in the next book because I've heard about it after the movie came out (and the movie made it really obvious the 3page guy was important.

So psychologically, this book was fascinating. The break point was the combination of the Death of Katniss' Father and the Emotional Withdrawl of Katniss' Mother. Note that how Katniss perceives her mother belies the facts in this book and in the sequels. Katniss thinks of her as a non-functional catatonic, yet if she is fully functional and communicative from the first book onward. Katniss is continually revising her memories of her mother in the later books, but note how Katniss always goes out of her way to make sure to put her mother down, to reinforce the mental image of how unavailable her mother is, even as her mother is doing the opposite of what Katniss perceives, we watch as Katniss rewrites her mother's actions into an image that fits her perception.

Catching Fire I found to be extremely frustrating and seriously dull for the first half. I assumed from the title that this was going to be about launching a rebellion, instead it's a Boxcar Children book, where the same formula is repeated with a slight variation. Collins drops the term Quarter Quell in the first chapter, and I guessed from that mention that either Katniss was going into the games again or Prim was.

The most frustrating part of the book for me was when Gale kisses Katniss and she's confused. Really? Such a kid. But I guess it makes sense if she’s revised Gale into her wall and that revision made her forget she cared about him.

I thought the Quarter Quell was executed pretty amazingly well, it was great to see Katniss in a team rather than on her own, and in all it was a pretty frightening game that Plutarch threw at Katniss. Finnick and Johanna and Mags and Beetee are marvelous new characters. I really distrusted Cinna in this book right up to the point that he gets beaten/killed in front of Katniss, and I was yelling at the book everytime Katniss thought about telling Cinna all her secrets and plans of rebellion etc.

I did think that Katniss’ plans were laughably childish and stupid before the Quarter Quell, I loved that other characters got to tell her that. One refreshing aspect after spending so much of the first book trapped completely in her whiny, selfish, damaged perspective to have some other characters manage to give the reader a little more variety. Which is not to say that Katniss stopped being whiny, selfish or damaged, like the first book she doesn’t really grow—she never grows as a character in any of the books—she just gets more damaged (which is a kind of negative growth I suppose), but it was nice to have more characters in the book that were not Peeta’s bland/lifeless/creepy perfect-nice-guy or Gale’s bland/lifeless nice-guy-bad-boy. I was surprised the Love Triangle received almost no development in this book beyond the previous sentence. I figured Gale would be a major part of this book, like Peeta was a major part of the last book (I figured the book would be about starting a rebellion and Gale would figure in that majorly and Peeta would be sidelined most of the book), so I was kinda surprised that Gale got only 30 pages and Peeta still got his 300 pages. And Katniss still doesn’t emotionally care about either of them as romantic partners, though eventually all the kissing does seem to provoke a small response. It’s a relief that Katniss is aware that she is in a love triangle and ought to make a choice. It’s not surprising that she withdraws further into her shell and plays her ‘I refuse to choose’ game, bleh, what a timewaster she is.

Mockingjay seemed like a genre shift, until it’s revealed late in the book that this is just another Hunger Games Boxcar Children formula, which Civilians included in the game arena this time. I was irritated we lose so much of the introduction to 13. And as soon as Coin was titled President—coupled with all the blatent foreshadowing of 13 being a different sort of government repression—I figured Coin was the actual badguy who would have to be beat. My guess was that if they won, Coin would propose continuing the Hunger Games in some fashion and Katniss would die killing her. I figured Peeta would die at some point in this book and that Gale would probably be badly disfigured/maimed before the final battle. I didn’t really expect the entire love triangle to survive.

Peeta’s indoctrination is a fascinating twist, and in yet another reason to hate first person perspective we completely miss the whole process. Perhaps the best thing about the movies is it gets us out of Katniss’ selfish, perspective-free head and let’s us see a broader take on events. It’s still centered around Katniss, but we’re not limited to just her ‘woe is me’ speculations. I think the movie was better because we’re not limited (and first person perspective is just about always awful, so the book is handicapped in the comparison), and I expect the other movies to be better and show more of the interesting story and cut away as often as they can from “Katniss broods about unfairness” repetition of the second and third books.

It’s much more of a bloodbath taking out the Capitol than it was fighting Voldemort, and I was pleasantly surprised that Katniss didn’t succeed at storming the gates and putting an arrow through Snow. I was surprised at the first bomb/second bomb trap that Gale developed being used on children—that was a brutal stroke by Coin. I wasn’t all that surprised at Katniss’ vote, Collins had to ‘hide’ Katniss’ intentions from us, which is not easy to do in the limitations of first person. I presume what happens here is that Katniss assumes that Coin is basically Snow at this point, and the only way to get out of that meeting alive is to give Snow/Coin what he/she wants, which is his Hunger Games. Katniss reasons she can have the opportunity to kill Coin instead of Snow and put a stop to the games, but simply voting against the games would not prevent the games, only eliminating Coin would prevent the Games. Katniss has already figured out at this point that Snow’s white Rose is a potent poison when inhaled, so she’s already positioned/readied a secondary weapon to kill Snow so she can use her primary weapon to kill Coin.

I find it interesting that Katniss has far fewer qualms about killing anonymous and totally innocent Capital civilians as well as the opposing army of peacekeepers yet spent the first two books being miss-nice-girl that doesn’t really have to do much, if any killing (and if she does kill, it’s just an accident, like the first book). True, she shoots to kill (and fails) in the second book, but her body count is one accidental/reflex kill by the end of the second book, and suddenly in the third book she’s killing people left and right.

I also think it’s ironic that Katniss wakes up at the end of the second book and goes around trying to strangle Peeta to protect him, and the first thing Peeta does when he wakes up in the third book is try to strangle Katniss. Hah. And Peeta is the crazy one. ;) Quite the double standard.

In terms of the epilogue, I thought it was really well done, and consistent with the psychology and negative growth of Katniss throughout the entire series. I always expected it would be Peeta, and the third book gave me the perfect way to explain that, I always figured it would be Peeta for the same reasons that Finnick and Annie wind up together. There’s just too much that is incomprehensible for another person. Psychologically, these books were wonderful, its too bad the world building is not as accurate/spot-on as the mental side.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

User avatar
starlooker
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3823
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:19 pm
Title: Dr. Mom
First Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Home. With cats who have names.

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby starlooker » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:52 pm

Someone FINALLY agrees with me about the epilogue! Huzzah!
There's another home somewhere,
There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
into the wind, unafraid.
There's another life out there...

~~Mary Chapin Carpenter

User avatar
Syphon the Sun
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 2218
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:59 pm
Title: Ozymandias

Re: MOCKINGJAY spoilers

Postby Syphon the Sun » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:12 am

(and if she does kill, it’s just an accident, like the first book) True, she shoots to kill (and fails) in the second book, but her body count is one accidental/reflex kill by the end of the second book, and suddenly in the third book she’s killing people left and right.
Marvel, the girl from District 4, Cato, Gloss...
Step softly; a dream lies buried here.


Return to “Milagre Town Square”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 21 guests