Police Brutality

[AnthonyByakko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g7zlJx9u2E

Warning: While it is difficult to make out the violence being inflicted on this young man, his screams are quite clear and very loud. The sound in the video may be disturbing to some.

A young man, named Mostofa, goes to the UCLA library; he is asked for his ID in a "random" ID check (look at the name one more time - random? Please). He does not have ID. He refuses to leave after being asked. The PD is called. He does not resist, but refuses to let them touch him and refuses to leave. After being tasered, he lays on the ground and is tased again. After not getting up after being "told to" by one of the officers, he is tased once more. While this young man, as you will see if you watch the video, was obviously looking for this kind of trouble (the words he uses in between screams aren't something that you just think off the top of your head after getting pumped with thousands of volts), could the police have done a worse job resolving the situation?

I stopped watching before the end, I didn't like hearing the wails, but I counted 4-5 times he was tasered, well above and beyond any reasonable amount of force. While this young man was a Most Unmitigated Bastard (SM) looking to make a scene, the "cops" (I use that term loosely - a GED and a gun does not a cop make) seemed more than willing to help him make the biggest, loudest, most controversial scene possible. Just days after that "other" LAPD beating you'd think they'd get the picture. But the sloppiness and incompetence of police tactics these days is a sign of the authoritarian times. A man tasered 5 times, dragged off in handcuffs for not having an ID. Can you see it a few years from now, when federal IDs are in place?

Your papers, mein herr....

[eriador]

a GED and a gun do not a policeman make, indeed.

petty tyranny is the worst kind, especially when it gets out of hand like this.

[Paul]

yea, saw that on digg... sad stuff. But hey, good for him getting it filmed, now he has a real chance at justice...

[eriador]

Ahh. Another digger. I wasn't going to say anything...

[Paul]

Ahh. Another digger. I wasn't going to say anything...

digg = information crack..... geez, im so addicted to the internet. my hands start to shake if im not wired in for more than a couple of hours....

[eriador]

haha.

I always have two tabs open in Camino: Digg and Pweb.

information crack indeed

[Oliver Dale]

I saw this on Digg too, and then I saw it after CNN picked it up.

It is angering at first, because it is hard to ignore his screams. But a refusal to leave is a refusal. He was apparently being obstinate about it. I'm a bit torn.

[AnthonyByakko]

I saw this on Digg too, and then I saw it after CNN picked it up.

It is angering at first, because it is hard to ignore his screams. But a refusal to leave is a refusal. He was apparently being obstinate about it. I'm a bit torn.

Oh, absolutely. He was definitely looking to make a scene. But any competent law enforcement agents would have been able to handle the situation.

Edit: just to add, there is a point at which he's on the ground, in cuffs, having been tasered a few times already and he's saying "all right, all right, I'll leave, I'll leave..." but he gets tasered another 2-3 times before they've got him out.

[Paul]

Oh, absolutely. He was definitely looking to make a scene. But any competent law enforcement agents would have been able to handle the situation.

i was thinking that myself; but what ever, damnit, its America! If you get your kicks out of being tazered, by all means do so...

[eriador]

I'm sure that those cops have a story, they were probably just having a bad day. That's the problem with giving people power that they could easily use. If cops were only able to act with lethal force (i.e. guns) I think that overall brutality would go down, even if more people were shot. But I'm not necessarily advocating doing so

[Dr. Mobius]

I wonder how a taser would compare to that little bastard in my shoulder...

[eriador]

Has anyone seen that video of guys tasering themsleves?

It has to hurt. I'll post it in the spider dance thread.

[lyons24000]

Police brutality sucks. I saw some cops beating this African-American guy who wasn't even doing anything. I think the cops were prejudice. In fact, I am almost 99% sure of it. Anyone think I'm wrong?

[Young Val]

Police brutality sucks. I saw some cops beating this African-American guy who wasn't even doing anything. I think the cops were prejudice. In fact, I am almost 99% sure of it. Anyone think I'm wrong?

it's impossible to agree or disagree for those of use who didn't witness the incident.

[jotabe]

Well, we don't hear that many cases where the police brutality happens to wasps. At least, not in the news that arrive at Spain.

[Caspian]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm really glad not to be an American these days.

[Oliver Dale]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm really glad not to be an American these days.

What a comical and overblown conclusion to be drawn from anecdotal (and as of yet, only superficial) evidence. Unless you believe no brutality occurs in Canada. In which case, you have to imagine my rolling eyes.

Or maybe you were joking?

[VelvetElvis]

They don't have police in Canada. Only mounties.

[Dr. Mobius]

Dudley doesn't have a brutal bone in his body.

[Eaquae Legit]

I've learned a little more about this situation since it was first posted.

The ID checks at the library are routine, conducted every night after 11pm. The campus safety officers who conduct the checks are students themselves. The ID they were requesting was not only his student ID but his library card as well. He knew that in order to be in the library after 11pm he would need it. The police were not called until after he had refused to produce ID and refused to leave. At that point, he was trespassing on school property, and the police had full rights to arrest him.

Any further discussion of this has to take those facts into account.

Myself, I get the impression he was actively looking for trouble. He could have left when asked for ID. He could have left at any time before the police arrived, but he chose to wait around and make a scene of it.

Did the police overreact? Maybe, but I'm hesitant to pass judgment on them at this point in time.

And, for a bit more stirring of the pot: http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showt ... hp?t=12336

Yes, I was indeed at Powell Library at approximately 11:30 on Tuesday night, and yes I did see the entire event as it went down.

Let me start off by saying that the guy DEFINITELY was asking to get his ass kicked. He was being extremely rude with the campus patrol guys (who are college students...this was before the real UCPD got called in). He was not complying with their requests to leave the premises, and he was definitely itching for a fight. I actually know the guy and a few of his friends, and I can tell you that he's the kind of guy that loves to make trouble.

Just as a little backstory, one of the quotes the guy has on his facebook (which he now has taken down) was "I like to find the most difficult solutions to the simplest of problems".

He definitely taunted the UCPD into behaving the way they did with him.

Edit: Many people have questioned the fact that the cops tazed him and asked him to get up, and tazed him again even though he shouldn't have the capability to get up. This was not the case here to my knowledge, because the cops were using their "drive-stun" method which administers less of a jolt than normal. I believe this because anyone who can ramble on about this being the patriot act and yell at the top of his lungs should have the capability of getting up.

[hive_king]

I do worry that after this that any time someone of a middle-eastern background is asked to show their card or anything of a similar nature, it will be "racial profiling, like that poor kid in LA".

[Eaquae Legit]

It gets even sillier when you realise that the CSOs were asking for ID from everyone in the library. And it happens every night. This guy was looking for trouble, is all I can imagine.

[AnthonyByakko]

It gets even sillier when you realise that the CSOs were asking for ID from everyone in the library. And it happens every night. This guy was looking for trouble, is all I can imagine.

You're missing the point. I know he was looking for trouble - like I said, the things he yelled aren't things that just pop into your head as you're being pumped with tens of thousands of volts of electricity.

The point is that any competent, trained law-enforcement agent would not have had to resort to less-lethal weaponry (LET ALONE 5 uses of said weapon) in order to defuse the situation. Instead, racking a young man with electro-shock, making a HUGE scene in a very public place, and making a great deal of trouble for both the officers in question, their department, and law enforcement in general.

We also must remember that tasers are not meant to be used in this fashion. I don't know what kind of experience some of you have with law enforcement, but tasers are not a "non-lethal" weapon. There IS no such thing as a "non-lethal" weapon. Weapons are meant to inflict physical harm on a living being - all of them are potentially fatal; law enforcement is fortunate to have, however, less lethal weapony like tasers, rubber bullets and beanbag projectiles. It is wholly unacceptable for them to be abused in this manner. We must always remain vigilante with the fact that police, as agents of the state, are only empowered to use force against citizens in the case of harm being done or harm imminently about to be done. Force is only legitimate as the prevention of force, and we're not only allowing, we are training law enforcement agents to treat a taser (not forgetting that it is a weapon) as a first-resort against any situation they don't want to deal with using conventional police tactics. This incident, as I said, is a sign of the times - laziness, incompetence and dereliction of duty in the lowest ranks of state agents exemplifies these same traits at the highest ranks.

[hive_king]

How would you have handled it?

[AnthonyByakko]

Not asking a bunch of stupid one-liner questions in response to every f***ing post, and actually making a f***ing point. Can you actually make statements, or is everything you say limited to the interrogative?

[VelvetElvis]

Can you actually speak English or is everything you say limited to one expletive?

(I know I am passive agressive. Shut up.)

[AnthonyByakko]

Can you actually speak English or is everything you say limited to one expletive?

(I know I am passive agressive. Shut up.)

What's it to you? You obviously understood what I said, at least well enough to respond, so you tell me - do I speak English? Of course. Way to waste time; you're a smart one.

[hive_king]

Oh, I prefer to give you rope and see if you hang yourself. I find it more amusing. And dude, don't get hostile and angry. It's just an online forum, no need for it.

[VelvetElvis]

The king has a point.

[AnthonyByakko]

Oh, I prefer to give you rope and see if you hang yourself. I find it more amusing. And dude, don't get hostile and angry. It's just an online forum, no need for it.

Well congrats, you've effectively reduced the chance of anyone responding to your asinine inquiries to 0. And here's a tip; angry is when someone cuts you off in traffic. Angry is when you spill your coffee. Angry is when the Bears win. Angry is not when some kid from a sci-fi geek board asks a bunch of stupid questions in complex, serious topics to try and make others look dumb because he's too incompetent to actually pwn them in a worthwhile fashion. And it would seem to me that someone who's intentions are to see other people intellectually hang themselves has some hostility issues themselves...

[AnthonyByakko]

The king has a point.

At the top of his head. You n00bs are all alike.

[VelvetElvis]

Angry is when you spill your coffee?

Frustrated? Yes. Annoyed? Sure. Angry? Not really the appropriate response.


PS: teh interweb is serious?

[eriador]

Anthony, you have to realize that you went from making a good, valid point to being angry, abusive and rude very suddenly. Besides, hive_king asked a good question which, though it was short, was a worthwhile question that would have allowed you to further elaborate. But instead of responding intelligently, you just took off on this really abusive line. I think that you were making a good point, but your responses after that effectively destroyed your credibility.

[AnthonyByakko]

Angry is when you spill your coffee?

Frustrated? Yes. Annoyed? Sure. Angry? Not really the appropriate response.

WOW! Personal opinion! NEAT-O.

PS: teh interweb is serious?

So... you learned some 1337 speak and now you think you're not a n00b? Aw, how cute.

[hive_king]

So I assume you don't have an answer and, characteristically, are just bitching without offering a solution or better answer?