Empire

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Empire

Postby wigginboy » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:54 pm

Has anyone heard of OSC's newest book, Empire? It looks really good. The idea that civil war can erupt in a country like the United States seems like a far off idea, but reading the first five chapters which can be found here I can see how it could happen. I really want to read this book when it comes out because I like Card's insights into war and his ability to create amazing character who you start to identify with in the first few chapters. Check out the link, it will be cool to see what other people think about OSC's newest venture.[/url]

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Postby pooka » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:20 pm

I'm looking forward to it.

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Postby Borommakot » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:48 am

since we already had a civil war in the united states before, its not too much of an unbelievable idea lol.
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Postby Ua Lava » Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:32 pm

I got Empire for Christmas, and it was an enjoyable read. Is it Card's best word? No, but it is a good book and shows a future that could very well happen. And that's scary.
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Postby luminousnerd » Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:09 am

Ua Lava wrote:I got Empire for Christmas, and it was an enjoyable read. Is it Card's best word? No, but it is a good book and shows a future that could very well happen. And that's scary.


You have got to be kidding me. You posted on THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS!!!! How can you read that fast? :( I'm so jealous. :(
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Postby hive_king » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:14 am

Luminous, this may come as a shock, but that's two datys after christmas, not one.

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Postby luminousnerd » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:36 am

Heh...well..sorry about that..I looked at the post above it.

Still, though. It takes me about 2 weeks to finish a book :(
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Postby Sibyl » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:28 am

luminousnerd wrote:Heh...well..sorry about that..I looked at the post above it.

Still, though. It takes me about 2 weeks to finish a book :(


Depends on the book. Most of OSCs serious ones take me a couple of days, now, some more, depending on length and how much time I have to give it. When I was in high school, the library would let you take out just one at a time, and I'd get a fiction-for-fun every day at my study hall (which was in the library), read it overnight (usually) along with homework and whatever. I had over an hour on the schoolbus coming and going, though, and it was hard to do homework on the bus unless it was pure reading, because the vibration made writing difficult. "Gone With the Wind" took me all of a weekend, and I didn't get much else done that weekend, either. But they were usually shorter books. Some "intense" and short books may take forever to read, because there's so much thinking to do per sentence.

When I was in college there was an academic and popular fad for taking "speed-reading" courses, training your eyes and brain to take it in faster, and "miracle" (I'd call them) stories like reading "War and Peace" in an hour. I think those higher speeds must have been skimming, but they'd still get some information to take away. There was a lot of hype selling gadgets and courses, and people talking about it in conversation. I never took a course, though.
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Postby Ua Lava » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:09 pm

luminousnerd wrote:You have got to be kidding me. You posted on THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS!!!! How can you read that fast? :( I'm so jealous. :(


Yes, I'm a fast reader, but Empire is a fast read. It's not OSC's deepest novel; its a fast, fun and light read. (philisophically speaking, Second American Civil War is not light at all)

Aside: Also, how do you post so fast? Our join dates are the same, but you have fitfy more posts than me. End aside.

If you liked the Shadow series, Empire follows the same vein: political thriller with science fiction elements. If you despised SotH, SP, and SotG, you might like Empire because it involves a more likely future compared to Shadow, but likely not. Empire is the salad to the 12oz steak that is Shadows in Flight.
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Postby luminousnerd » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:25 pm

Ua Lava wrote:
luminousnerd wrote:You have got to be kidding me. You posted on THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS!!!! How can you read that fast? :( I'm so jealous. :(


Yes, I'm a fast reader, but Empire is a fast read. It's not OSC's deepest novel; its a fast, fun and light read. (philisophically speaking, Second American Civil War is not light at all)

Aside: Also, how do you post so fast? Our join dates are the same, but you have fitfy more posts than me. End aside.

If you liked the Shadow series, Empire follows the same vein: political thriller with science fiction elements. If you despised SotH, SP, and SotG, you might like Empire because it involves a more likely future compared to Shadow, but likely not. Empire is the salad to the 12oz steak that is Shadows in Flight.


Do you have any more information about Shadows in Flight than the Wikipedia? It's so vague...I am so hungry for that book to come out! And I want to know what it's about, how much he's written, etc! Heh

I have lots of posts mostly because I got in some arguments with people that lasted too long :oops:

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Postby Seiryu » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:14 pm

luminousnerd wrote:Heh...well..sorry about that..I looked at the post above it.

Still, though. It takes me about 2 weeks to finish a book :(


Damn, that is a long time. Depending on how into a book I am, I could finish one in a day. I read about half of Treasure Box in a matter of a few hours. Stopped to eat, run some errands, etc. and I read Lullaby by Chuck Palahniuk (the guy who wrote Fight Club) in like a day.

Two weeks for me if I don't read everyday or for more than an hour one day.

On a related note, I thought Empire sounded cool, but I think I'll wait until it comes out on paperback. Maybe by then my reading queue will go down a bit. :wink:
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Postby puppets » Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:29 pm

Someone give me a review please, I found it in the bookstor nearby, and I'm wondering if i should shell out 30 dolars fo rit. so review please... just ahhh try to keep spoilers to a minimum?
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Postby Sibyl » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:06 pm

puppets wrote:Someone give me a review please, I found it in the bookstor nearby, and I'm wondering if i should shell out 30 dolars fo rit. so review please... just ahhh try to keep spoilers to a minimum?


Amazon.com (with several reviews)

Hatrack River

at least one chapter
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Postby ValentineNicole » Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:55 am

I bought it at target for like $16, if that helps with the shelling out of money ;)
And so far, it's a great read.

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Postby Ithilien » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:02 am

Just finished it last night! It’s a pretty good read – really good actually, until you compare it with the Ender and Shadow series. The idea of a civil war did seem a little far-fetched at first but he provides great arguments about how this could possibly happen in America. Greatest action, suspense, and thrill I’ve ever read in a book (stand aside Dan Brown!).
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Postby wigginboy » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:29 pm

I got the book for my birthday (today). I actually got the book a week and a half ago, and ive finished with a sense that i learned something. It was an excellent book that opened up my eyes to the political polarization in the united states government. i am canadian and dont pay more attention to american politics than i have to, as in when they deal with canada, but i think this book is making me want to watch american political talk shows like Bill Maher more often. In short, it was a great book that makes sense in an eerie sort of way. I hope nothing like that actually happens in the united states, but i can see the potential of such a thing happening.

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Postby irnstad » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:17 pm

It was a good read and it went by pretty fast. The quotes at the beginning of every chapter were really good quotes in my opinion. I thought it was set up well in the beginning and it never really lacked action. If you read it for about 15-30 minutes a night you can be done in a week. It's worth the money.
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Postby Jebus » Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:53 am

Ithilien wrote:Greatest action, suspense, and thrill I’ve ever read in a book (stand aside Dan Brown!).


Oh Ithilien, you slay me!

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Postby Ithilien » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:54 pm

Yay!




Wait, is that a good thing?
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- on secret tunnelling, Empire



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Postby Tome » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:38 pm

I got the book for Christmas and read through right after finishing the Discworld novel I was also given. It's a good book. Like mentioned, it's not Card's best, but it's worth reading. I recommend it.

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Postby locke » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:31 am

comparing Empire to Dan Brown is a perfect analogy, Empire is almost as incompentely written, and an equivalent page turner to get the damn thing over with.

By far this is card's worst novel. I could care less about the politics, but every single viewpoint character, from the main character, his assistant, his wife, the new morman president, and torrent are all Mary Sues--they all speak with an identical voice, spout identical thoughts, and move in a lockstep harmony that is more disturbing than any thought of civil war.

And besides the complete lack of viewpoint character personality, this was also every bit as poorly written as the Bonzo Madrid short story. The technology aspect was about as believable as the Da Vinci Code. What's more the portrayal of the military special ops are so far out of tune with reality of today's military, living only in Card's fantasy world, that it is embarassing. It's like he's trying to write Jack Bauer as a Mormon who doesn't hurt anyone or ever bend a rule but still gets everything he wants Jack Bauer style anyway.

Abominably bad.
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Postby Arlecchino » Wed May 16, 2007 1:34 pm

I think Locke's being abit (if not overly) harsh. Im halfway through and am loving every page of it. This book would be especially good to those who liked Beans Saga (ES, SotH, SP, SoG), the military aspect was uber cool.

Frankly, I suggest discarding Locke's "Abominably bad" statment and picking it up for yourself cause it's a good write and a great read.

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Postby Noodle » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:07 pm

I just finished this, and while it's not on the top 15 list of OSC books. It's not awful. It's a popcorn novel.... not much substance to it but it's kinda fun.

I don't foresee this becoming anyone's favorite novel of all time, but since it's a quick read, there's no real harm in it.

**** Pretty Major Spoilers Ahead ******

I wonder where they are picking up with the video game. Will the player control Rube and Cole's forces against the mechs and hoverbikes? Or will the video game take place after the novel, once Torrent has taken control of the government and people like Cole are needed to overthrow him? I kept reading the story waiting for more fighting to break out so I could clearly see what part of the story was going to take place in the game, but there was very little fighting described in the book - hardly enough to make a compelling RTS game.

The other big question I had is, where did the cover art come from? There were no tanks/helicopters/rifles like that described anywhere in the book? I know OSC says you shouldn't have a crucial scene depicted on the cover of a book, but don't you think that the cover should depict something even remotely related to the novel?
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Postby eriador » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:52 pm

luminousnerd wrote:
Ua Lava wrote:I got Empire for Christmas, and it was an enjoyable read. Is it Card's best word? No, but it is a good book and shows a future that could very well happen. And that's scary.


You have got to be kidding me. You posted on THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS!!!! How can you read that fast? :( I'm so jealous. :(


I read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows in 6 hours, without breaks. Reading Empire the day after Christmas is more than doable, esp. without anything to do...

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Postby Luet » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:53 pm

I have to admit that I had absolutely no desire to read this despite owning nearly every OSC book that exists. I have no interest in political/military dramas and find most of OSC's viewpoints in this area fairly annoying (personally, my political stance is neutral).

I happened upon this at my library and picked it up since I had a very long plane flight ahead. I literally could NOT finish it. I was liking OSC less and less with each page. After he compared Al Gore to the Unabomber...that was about it for me.

I have to agree with Locke on this one. It was awful. It felt like OSC used it as a vehicle to spout his political views and that's it. Except he already has a vehicle for that, his column.
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Postby mazer » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:47 pm

I am reading Empire right now (I went to barnes and noble to get Xenocide they did not have :( ) and I am curios why OSC uses John Paul for Enders dad and the little kid in Empire :? does he know some by that name :?

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Postby Jayelle » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:50 pm

Besides, perhaps, the late pope?
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Postby KennEnder » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:35 pm

yeah, there really ARE lots of Catholic boys named John Paul. I know several myself.
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Postby shadow_8818 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:26 pm

awesome book love how osc mind jumped around
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Postby Petra » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:52 pm

Honestly, it wasn't particularly good. I understand that it's Sci-Fi and the future and whatnot, but the "battle" scenes with robots and whatnot were a little farfetched when juxtaposed against the rest of the story, and the character development was lacking.

I'm inclined to agree with locke on this one.
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Postby Bryan Christopher Sawyer » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:38 pm

I'm part way into the book myself. So far it seems that Card IS putting forth a lot of his own political beliefs, and I believe that's why they chose him to write the story. It should be mentioned that the initial plot isn't necessarily his own. He was hired to do it by a video game company who came up with the general idea and planned to make a game and movie. They wanted Card to write a novel based on their ideas and they offered him a nice chunk of change to do so.

I've noticed a pattern in his books so far. Card seems to speed up initial meetings between characters. All of his characters are hyper intelligent and seem to be able to size one another up quickly. He uses this pattern to rush right into the events that he really aims to unfold, and then delights in fleshing those events out and making them complex and organic.

It's not necessarily a bad thing. I want to be a writer myself. A SF writer at that. And I do write differently than him. But I could see how that tactic could work as long as the plot is entertaining enough, and fortunately his often are.

I myself sometimes have stupid people in my stories that make mistakes.

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Postby Bryan Christopher Sawyer » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:38 pm

I'm part way into the book myself. So far it seems that Card IS putting forth a lot of his own political beliefs, and I believe that's why they chose him to write the story. It should be mentioned that the initial plot isn't necessarily his own. He was hired to do it by a video game company who came up with the general idea and planned to make a game and movie. They wanted Card to write a novel based on their ideas and they offered him a nice chunk of change to do so.

I've noticed a pattern in his books so far. Card seems to speed up initial meetings between characters. All of his characters are hyper intelligent and seem to be able to size one another up quickly. He uses this pattern to rush right into the events that he really aims to unfold, and then delights in fleshing those events out and making them complex and organic.

It's not necessarily a bad thing. I want to be a writer myself. A SF writer at that. And I do write differently than him. But I could see how that tactic could work as long as the plot is entertaining enough, and fortunately his often are.

I myself sometimes have stupid people in my stories that make mistakes.

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Postby megxers » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:34 am

So I'm trying to read this again, I'm not sure why. The dialogue is horrific, everything is told not shown, and the problem isn't overblown adjectives, it is absurdly detailed nuances that don't fit into the dialogue/description. No one talks like that about anything. Also, maybe because I've read a lot of military related current affairs books lately to keep up with a crush so this bugs me, but a lot of the deal makers/ have Ivy degrees, so I'm not sure why the main character has to be such an assertive, seemingly anti-conformist on campus. Total reductionist snoozefest, though I am making it entertaining for myself by imagining everyone to look like Master Chief & a riff on the Halo universe, because it has a slightly enjoyable video game cardboard cut out side to it.
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Postby TheTranskinator » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:22 pm

I didn't think it was that bad... It wasn't an Ender's Game, but it wasn't horrible in my opinion... I did think that the dialogue was a little flat, but the idea behind the novel seemed possible and was interesting enough to keep me reading. I liked the sequel too, as I enjoyed the plot just as much. However there are a lot of flaws with the books I didn't like, most notably...

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS (highlight below)

Rube dying so quickly (I liked him...)

Both novels ending so abruptly

How Averall (spelling?) Torrent seemed to be an afterthought in the second book. "Hey, I forgot that this guy is bad!!! Let's put in a paragraph here, there, and a short chapter here... Who cares if the ending isn't climatic?!?! Not me!"


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