"I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

A place to discuss official news from the production of the Ender's Game film, due in theaters November 2013
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Gravity Defier » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:04 am

Kill Devil Hill wrote:So many things to say about this movie.

- Is it just me or did they completely change nearly every character's personality? Bean seemed friendlier than Ender did. Ender did not come across to me as this empathetic, wise child; he actually seemed rather standoffish. Petra wasn't nearly as playful. They didn't even illustrate the Bernard-Alai-Ender thing (which was important), but I suppose it was too long. None of the children came across as geniuses. John Wiggin seemed odd, too, but I'm getting picky. His accent was a nice touch, though. My friends who hadn't read First Meetings were completely shocked, though. :lol:


Most definitely not just you. Not only was Ender standoffish, as you put it, he was vain and arrogant (his celebration at his victory over the buggers, his being far too concerned he was a failure when he thought he hadn't made it farther in the IF program). He cared entirely too much about winning and not about, basically, giving the adults the finger because he was tired of their games and giving up.

Petra came off as too soft for my liking. I can't put my finger on what they could have done differently but she just wasn't convincing to me.


I liked Bean. He didn't really clash with my EG perception of Bean, though I suppose if you take the Shadow series seriously, he would be out of character.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Kill Devil Hill » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:21 am

Gravity Defier wrote:
Kill Devil Hill wrote:So many things to say about this movie.

- Is it just me or did they completely change nearly every character's personality? Bean seemed friendlier than Ender did. Ender did not come across to me as this empathetic, wise child; he actually seemed rather standoffish. Petra wasn't nearly as playful. They didn't even illustrate the Bernard-Alai-Ender thing (which was important), but I suppose it was too long. None of the children came across as geniuses. John Wiggin seemed odd, too, but I'm getting picky. His accent was a nice touch, though. My friends who hadn't read First Meetings were completely shocked, though. :lol:


Most definitely not just you. Not only was Ender standoffish, as you put it, he was vain and arrogant (his celebration at his victory over the buggers, his being far too concerned he was a failure when he thought he hadn't made it farther in the IF program). He cared entirely too much about winning and not about, basically, giving the adults the finger because he was tired of their games and giving up.

Petra came off as too soft for my liking. I can't put my finger on what they could have done differently but she just wasn't convincing to me.


I liked Bean. He didn't really clash with my EG perception of Bean, though I suppose if you take the Shadow series seriously, he would be out of character.


Agreed with everything here. This Bean was truer to EG than ES Bean was. It was just strange to me seeing Bean more likable and friendlier than Ender. I don't necessarily mind changing some personalities (except Petra needed more sass and strength -- she's too strong of a character to let fall on the wayside like that), but Ender, imo, was one of the best fictional characters of all-time, and he was reduced to an annoying borderline narcissist. Very disappointing.

Perhaps I overrate Ender's character, but had they mishandled the entire movie but kept Ender's personality the same, I would've actually I enjoyed the movie more and rated it higher.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Gravity Defier » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:28 am

Kill Devil Hill wrote:had they mishandled the entire movie but kept Ender's personality the same, I would've actually I enjoyed the movie more and rated it higher.


Exactly. I can't understand all the comments I'm reading about the movie at least being true to the spirit of the book because Ender is the spirit of the book (or a significant enough part of it that changing him changes the interpretation of the rest) and Gavin Hood's Ender was not Ender. Other changes were understandable but changing Ender into something I couldn't recognize? Not so much.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Kill Devil Hill » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:43 am

I just read this quote by OSC. Well... at least he acknowledges that he forsook Ender completely.

So what was the essence, the power of Ender’s Game? Only at the very end, as I created one last draft at a time when it was already clear there was zero chance a script by me would be filmed, did I understand fully what made the story work. It is not that we like Ender because he suffers, or because he’s nice. It’s not his struggle with the adults or his efforts to understand the hive queen. It’s definitely not the battle room or the war in space. What works in Ender’s Game is Ender’s leadership of the other kids. He earns their trust by never pretending to know more than he does, always helping them reach their greatest potential, treating no one as a rival or enemy, and reaching out to include within his community anyone who was willing to come in.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby elfprince13 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:22 pm

Sounds like movie-Ender to me, but OSC wasn't the screenwriter, so I'm not sure what you're getting at when you say "he admits he forsook Ender".

What works in Ender’s Game is Ender’s leadership of the other kids. He earns their trust by never pretending to know more than he does

"I think Alai or Bean could do this problem better"

treating no one as a rival or enemy,

Ender crying over Bonzo and calling for help at the end of the shower scene.

and reaching out to include within his community anyone who was willing to come in.

Bernard: "but you don't even like me"
Ender: "..."
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby neo-dragon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:43 pm

Aside from the specific instances that I mention in my initial post, I felt that they did a pretty good job of capturing Ender's character. The empathy and compassion were there.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Kill Devil Hill » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:44 pm

elfprince13 wrote:Sounds like movie-Ender to me, but OSC wasn't the screenwriter, so I'm not sure what you're getting at when you say "he admits he forsook Ender".

What works in Ender’s Game is Ender’s leadership of the other kids. He earns their trust by never pretending to know more than he does

"I think Alai or Bean could do this problem better"

treating no one as a rival or enemy,

Ender crying over Bonzo and calling for help at the end of the shower scene.

and reaching out to include within his community anyone who was willing to come in.

Bernard: "but you don't even like me"
Ender: "..."


I wasn't saying the movie contradicted his quote. Quite the opposite actually. He specifically said he took out the parts I was complaining about him taking out, and imo, those parts he took out were what made Ender Ender.

It is not that we like Ender because he suffers, or because he’s nice. It’s not his struggle with the adults or his efforts to understand the hive queen.


This actually was what I liked about Ender, and I thought he couldn't inspire leadership the way he did without all of this.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Wind Swept » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:29 pm

I'm sitting in the movie theater parking lot post-movie. I have not read anything in this thread.

My only thoughts at this point are:

- The Shadow series is f****** by making Ender/Petra a thing.
- The Speaker series is f****** by leaving Val behind.
- Ergo, any sequel will be a big f*** you to Card's work. I'm in favor of this.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby neo-dragon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:44 pm

Ender and Petra were not "a thing".
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby elfprince13 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:02 pm

Kill Devil Hill wrote:I wasn't saying the movie contradicted his quote. Quite the opposite actually. He specifically said he took out the parts I was complaining about him taking out, and imo, those parts he took out were what made Ender Ender.

Okay sure, but what he did didn't actually have any bearing on the movie. If you didn't like the writing for movie-Ender, take it up with Bob Orci, not OSC.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Gravity Defier » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:03 pm

elfprince13 wrote:Sounds like movie-Ender to me, but OSC wasn't the screenwriter, so I'm not sure what you're getting at when you say "he admits he forsook Ender".

What works in Ender’s Game is Ender’s leadership of the other kids. He earns their trust by never pretending to know more than he does

"I think Alai or Bean could do this problem better"


This could arguably also be because he doesn't want the kids to hate him for being favored or seen as The One. Which I think is more the case than him not pretending to know more than he does. I think he knew it at least well enough to explain it to the class.

Ender's reaction in the shower with Bonzo is probably the only time I believed he was a compassionate character.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Boothby » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:29 pm

This sequence, when the two transport ships collide:

Image

Was it just me, or did some of you guys feel that the jeesh all reacted as if they knew they had just killed people?

Has anyone here ever reacted like this when crashing a car into a hooker in GTA? Has anyone who ever played Halo ever been so upset when wrecking a ship?


And at the end, when the ONE SHIP with the Little Doctor on it starts to burn up before firing its BFG....how would GAMERS have really handled that scene?

"Ooh, man! Look at that! That is so cool!"

"Ender, you're letting the dreadnought get totally fried!"

"Who the f**** cares! Whoa! Look at the way they show the planet blowing up! Cool!"

etc., etc.

The kids all reacted somewhere halfway between the two worlds. More emotional and caring than gamers. Not quite what we'd want to see from people sending thousands of soldiers to their deaths.


If Gavin Hood ever had the opportunity to show these kids as brainwashed "children soldiers", that was the moment. Again--he failed.

If Ender had said, after the Ansible connection had been restored, "Wait....that's not a sim. THAT'S NOT A SIM!"

I SOO want to re-make this movie!
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby neo-dragon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:49 pm

The reaction seemed reasonable to me considering that even if it is just a simulation, it's not just a "game". Even in the book, Ender was quite determined that he could not lose, EVER, because he knew what is at stake. It's more like totally bombing an important exam than just getting fragged in Halo. Ender knows that if he fails in these simulations there's a good chance that he won't be able to win the real war. Also, from a film perspective, wouldn't it have killed the drama and tension if the characters acted like nothing was at stake? Assuming that the audience hasn't figured out that the battles are real, the climatic assault on the homeworld would have meant nothing if the characters at least weren't fully invested in it. If Ender had just shrugged off seeing his ships be destroyed earlier, why is the audience supposed to care during the final battle when they're being wiped out and it looks like they might not make it?

For that matter look at how upset Ender is by the fantasy game (in both book and movie). Something like attacking and killing the giant is what most gamers would do with glee right off the bat. It never made sense to me that no one had tried that before Ender.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Boothby » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:06 pm

Then you're looking for a false climax. Fake emotions from the characters for a momentary rush, but a false note in the story.

Imagine if Ender and the jeesh were all callous about the destruction of the ships. Imagine if they were really acting like they were playing a game. The fall at the revelation of what they were REALLY doing becomes ALL THE GREATER. Pay the price for less of an emotional impact up front, get a bigger--and truer--reward later.

And imagine, somewhere, somehow, Bean whispering into the microphone feed that he had set up on his console, "Let the missile blow up inside your ship..." (not that that was supported in the slightest by anything that came before, but, still....)
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby neo-dragon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:19 pm

Even the book doesn't doesn't depict the Jeesh as being indifferent to failures in the "simulations".

You may be right that it would have made the reveal pack more punch, but you can't expect the audience to just sit through a big dramatic battle sequence in the final act of the film that appears to not matter at all.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby dannydawg » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:50 pm

Boothby wrote:This sequence, when the two transport ships collide:

Image

Was it just me, or did some of you guys feel that the jeesh all reacted as if they knew they had just killed people?

Has anyone here ever reacted like this when crashing a car into a hooker in GTA? Has anyone who ever played Halo ever been so upset when wrecking a ship?


And at the end, when the ONE SHIP with the Little Doctor on it starts to burn up before firing its BFG....how would GAMERS have really handled that scene?

"Ooh, man! Look at that! That is so cool!"

"Ender, you're letting the dreadnought get totally fried!"

"Who the f**** cares! Whoa! Look at the way they show the planet blowing up! Cool!"

etc., etc.

The kids all reacted somewhere halfway between the two worlds. More emotional and caring than gamers. Not quite what we'd want to see from people sending thousands of soldiers to their deaths.


If Gavin Hood ever had the opportunity to show these kids as brainwashed "children soldiers", that was the moment. Again--he failed.

If Ender had said, after the Ansible connection had been restored, "Wait....that's not a sim. THAT'S NOT A SIM!"

I SOO want to re-make this movie!




That was pretty reasonable as a reaction to messing up. As someone who has wasted lots of time gaming, people react really intensely to far less interesting games. Look up youtube videos if you don't believe me

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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Kill Devil Hill » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:36 pm

elfprince13 wrote:
Kill Devil Hill wrote:I wasn't saying the movie contradicted his quote. Quite the opposite actually. He specifically said he took out the parts I was complaining about him taking out, and imo, those parts he took out were what made Ender Ender.

Okay sure, but what he did didn't actually have any bearing on the movie. If you didn't like the writing for movie-Ender, take it up with Bob Orci, not OSC.


It doesn't matter to me who did what. I'm not playing the blame game. My point was that he himself acknowledged that the film left out some stuff that I personally found important, stuff that made Ender Ender, although he turned it into a positive. Reading back my post, I suppose it sounds accusatory. I don't care who forsook Ender, though. I just care that it happened.

Edit: Regarding their reaction to losing a ship in the game, I honestly would've reacted like that lol. Especially at that age. I really get into games. I think, though, that they probably thought of it as getting a failing grade on a college test. They may not have known it was real, but they knew that they could not afford mistakes like that.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby elfprince13 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:30 am

Boothby wrote:This sequence, when the two transport ships collide:

Image

Was it just me, or did some of you guys feel that the jeesh all reacted as if they knew they had just killed people?

Has anyone here ever reacted like this when crashing a car into a hooker in GTA? Has anyone who ever played Halo ever been so upset when wrecking a ship?


You clearly have never seen gamer-rage. That was ridiculously tame.




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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Dr. Mobius » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:27 am

Boothby wrote:This sequence, when the two transport ships collide:

Image

Was it just me, or did some of you guys feel that the jeesh all reacted as if they knew they had just killed people?

Has anyone here ever reacted like this when crashing a car into a hooker in GTA? Has anyone who ever played Halo ever been so upset when wrecking a ship?

It seems pretty realistic to me. (NSFW: Language, crude humor)
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby locke » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:19 pm

so our internet was out yesterday, but we saw it friday night.

I would give it about a 7.5 to 8. The film was clearly made by people who love the book, as virtually every important scene/beat from the book was in the film, though often in a highly compressed version. This illustrates the biggest problem with the film, which is pace and key, everything is amped up at a 10 all the time, (YELLING! SO EMOTIONAL! YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ME! WHY AM I TALKING LIKE THIS?!), and is just beat after beat after beat, there's never any emotional downtime, there's never a moment when the whole film can breathe, because everything is moving lickety split towards the inevitable conclusion. This is a place where I have to give credit to Benioff and Weiss (the guys who make/write Game of Thrones for HBO and at one point wrote a script for Ender's Game), because their script while radically reengineering the overall story beats maintained the spirit of and tone of book through a more carefully managed ebb and flow. And note that it's in the departures from the book (Ender's training program at the beginning, Dap, the militarized tone) that the movie succeeds best. The lines straight out of the book, while it at times gave you a chill to hear them, were often really clunky and fell flat (because, honestly, they're often not very good lines, meaning they sound didactic when spoken aloud, even if you can 'make it work' when reading it).

I did find the acting excellent (when characters were not in caps lock mode), and thought Steinfeld and Butterfield were both outstanding. Breslin did a great job playing up Ender's weird and creepy Madonna complex with Valentine, and I thought Ben Kingsley was awesome, he was the only one would could make Card's lines work (the iconic scene where Ender meets Rackham, which plays far too fast. :(). Harrison Ford was very decent. I loved Bonzo. I loved how short he was, I loved the way the actor handled every scene, done wonderfully.

The battleroom was beautiful, but it was too big. it was so vast that nothing could really happen in it--like playing halo with 2 people on a map meant for 200. I did think it was interesting that it was so slow

One thing I think that the film really makes clear is it makes transparent just how much of an a****** Ender Wiggin is. When we're in Ender's head we can excuse any crime. In the book, it's okay he viciously beat up and kill Stilson because in Ender's morality, murder is not bad if the right person does it for the right reason (the right reason being that you want to terrorize other children and bring them under your power and control through the manipulation of their fear), it's okay to break another kid's arm for the same reason and then it's okay to make yourself the victim (rather than feel empathy for your victim) and feel sorry for yourself when your campaign of terror and fear works on the other kids and you don't have any friends because of your own actions (but don't take responsibility for yourself, blame the adults, right?). When you're not in Ender's head, his obsession with winning does make him pretty much a colossal a******, people obsessed with winning tend to always be assholes because they're so self-centered, which is how Ender comes across (when we're in his head, we excuse this because he's a nice guy, so it's okay if he steamrolls everyone to get his way because we and he know he's really so good and nice deep down even if his actions rarely or never illustrate this). the movie also lays bare just how retarded Card's take on the military, and on leadership, really is. Morale, the military, leadership and psychology don't operate the way they do in the book, and the scenes in the film that convince you that Ender's a pretty good leader are handled differently than the book.

In terms of battleroom strategy, the film also illustrates that Ender's insights are either self evident (once you know the rules, it means your strategy should always orient around the enemy gate) or inane, or don't work in zero g (how slowly characters move), if you consider the mileau of the battleroom to have pre-existed Ender by a few decades, pretty much everything he does should have been attempted already and there would have been a massive institutional knowledge and culture within the environment, but Ender comes to a battleschool that is more or less pre-lapsarian or medieval trapped in a seeming stasis of non-innovation and only super-genius boy can save them from themselves if they'd just bow down to his awesomeness and worship him.

One thing I did like was how the film ties in what we are learning about remote warfare and it's effect on veterans who wage it, the book gets this a bit but the film clarifies it better.
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I'll probably have more thoughts later. got to go now.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Gravity Defier » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:32 pm

locke wrote:One thing I think that the film really makes clear is it makes transparent just how much of an a****** Ender Wiggin is. When we're in Ender's head we can excuse any crime. In the book, it's okay he viciously beat up and kill Stilson because in Ender's morality, murder is not bad if the right person does it for the right reason (the right reason being that you want to terrorize other children and bring them under your power and control through the manipulation of their fear), it's okay to break another kid's arm for the same reason and then it's okay to make yourself the victim (rather than feel empathy for your victim) and feel sorry for yourself when your campaign of terror and fear works on the other kids and you don't have any friends because of your own actions (but don't take responsibility for yourself, blame the adults, right?). When you're not in Ender's head, his obsession with winning does make him pretty much a colossal a******, people obsessed with winning tend to always be assholes because they're so self-centered, which is how Ender comes across (when we're in his head, we excuse this because he's a nice guy, so it's okay if he steamrolls everyone to get his way because we and he know he's really so good and nice deep down even if his actions rarely or never illustrate this).


I...don't even know what character/book you're talking about here. That characterization of Ender rings true for movie-Ender to me but that is not even remotely close to how I read book-Ender in any of my readings over the years. Not as a 14 year old and not as a 30 year old or anywhere in between.

I look forward to hearing more about your rationalization for that.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Mich » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:08 pm

locke wrote:In terms of battleroom strategy, the film also illustrates that Ender's insights are either self evident (once you know the rules, it means your strategy should always orient around the enemy gate) or inane, or don't work in zero g (how slowly characters move), if you consider the mileau of the battleroom to have pre-existed Ender by a few decades, pretty much everything he does should have been attempted already and there would have been a massive institutional knowledge and culture within the environment, but Ender comes to a battleschool that is more or less pre-lapsarian or medieval trapped in a seeming stasis of non-innovation and only super-genius boy can save them from themselves if they'd just bow down to his awesomeness and worship him.

I agree on this. It was something playing through my head during those scenes. I thought they kind of nodded to this, in the first army battle scene with Petra and Dink and I think Hot Soup, where they use each other as shields: basically saying "this Ender-created strategy in the book is obviously something other people would come up with." One ongoing conversation I have with myself about the obstacle of writing is that writers often have to make the obvious seem new and unique, purely because they often have to write about characters that are smarter than the writer themselves, which is a silly paradox. Anyway, although I thought the "shooting up the rankings" scene felt odd and time-skippy, in retrospect it hid a bunch of "Ender's genius" that might have wrung false to audiences.

But then the strategy in the final scene felt silly and obvious to me, even if it had a very nice echo of how he won the double Salamander/Leopard battle. But I think I might have just been purposefully hard on it because it was changed. After all, showing a slow, methodical advancement down toward the planet would have possibly made for a boring scene.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Boothby » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:07 pm

Thomas, et al...I feel so...SHELTERED!!!
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Young Val » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:26 pm

We saw the movie this afternoon. I went in with very low expectations and actually came out feeling pleasantly surprised. There were a lot of flaws, of course, but more than anything when walking out of the theatre I wanted to start rereading the book immediately--not because the movie was wretched, but because it reminded me of how much I love this story.

I don't have much of any substance to say, really, because the movie hasn't really been important to me for many years now, and I wasn't that excited in the run up for it. I'm glad it was made, I'm glad I saw it, it was enjoyable. I can't wait to read the book again. I think a lot of the criticisms I've read here are valid, but I can't really bring myself to get very invested in any of them.

My heart goes out to those of you who were heart-broken, frustrated, or otherwise unhappy with the movie. While I don't share your feelings about this movie in particular, all you need to do is go search the old Deathly Hallows threads to know that I understand all too well what it's like to be disappointed and truly inconsolable over a much-awaited work of fiction that you believe to have been poorly executed.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Luet » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:18 pm

Young Val wrote:I went in with very low expectations and actually came out feeling pleasantly surprised. There were a lot of flaws, of course, but more than anything when walking out of the theatre I wanted to start rereading the book immediately--not because the movie was wretched, but because it reminded me of how much I love this story.


That sums up my feelings pretty well, actually.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Gravity Defier » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:07 pm

Young Val wrote:My heart goes out to those of you who were heart-broken, frustrated, or otherwise unhappy with the movie. While I don't share your feelings about this movie in particular, all you need to do is go search the old Deathly Hallows threads to know that I understand all too well what it's like to be disappointed and truly inconsolable over a much-awaited work of fiction that you believe to have been poorly executed.


Whereas this, somehow, makes me feel so much better about my experience being disappointing than anyone who detailed why it was a great experience for themselves (and should have been for others) did/does. Conversely, I am happy for those who walked away from it happy even if I'm doing an abysmal job expressing it.

Thanks, Kelly.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby elfprince13 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:18 pm

Boothby wrote:Thomas, et al...I feel so...SHELTERED!!!

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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby locke » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:24 pm

Gravity Defier wrote:
I...don't even know what character/book you're talking about here. That characterization of Ender rings true for movie-Ender to me but that is not even remotely close to how I read book-Ender in any of my readings over the years. Not as a 14 year old and not as a 30 year old or anywhere in between.

I look forward to hearing more about your rationalization for that.


Movie Ender is an a******, that was pretty much not clear.

I've spent a lot of time over the past five-ten years thinking about Ender from different perspectives and some of that came out in a jumble there. He's sort of a singular character in fiction, he's both the anti-christ and christ. He brings the apocalypse and will then bring the resurrection. Death in the left hand, Life in the right hand.

But when you think about how to adapt, you have to be able to get out of a character's head and see them from another perspective, and you have to do that for all the other characters, and think about how 'the world' might react to various things. Would it be a national story if a six year old boy beat to death a seven year old boy at a school bus stop? Yes, that would be news. It would be big news. There is no possible way anyone would ever portray the six year old boy as the victim, no one reading or hearing the news would think of the kid as the victim--unless it were as a victim of toxic upbringing. Yet when we read Ender's Game, the remarkable thing is that we think of Ender--despite murdering Stilson--as the victim, Ender commits the crime, but thinks of himself of the injured party, showing little empathy or remorse (Stilson 'made' him do it, he was so mean!). That's the sort of perspective switching I've been experimenting with. It's amazing how well crafted a character Ender is, that we buy in with him, and go along with him and root for him despite his actions. So it makes it incredibly hard to portray Ender without Ender being the problem, justifiable homicide isn't easy to make sympathetic on film when it's kids responding to teasing/bullying and when the real life school shootings of kids killing kids in response to bullying is a situation we constantly deal with. You have to be able to answer the question of why Ender isn't like the guys who shot up Columbine, or you have to make sure the question isn't ever asked...

It's really fascinating to dig into. The first fight with Stilson parallels all the future fights in the story, including the genocide, and each time, no matter what sin Ender commits, we're constantly on his side, that's a phenomenal achievement.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Boothby » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:34 pm

Ender also said, "Orientated," right before he turns to Bean and says, "Um...uh...so...um...well, maybe the Enemy's Gate is Down!" without much reference to anything important.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby buckshot » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:40 am

First time I had been in a theater in years and I was entertained and a little let down but I loved it. It's been a long damn wait!

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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby neo-dragon » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:17 am

Luet wrote:
Young Val wrote:I went in with very low expectations and actually came out feeling pleasantly surprised. There were a lot of flaws, of course, but more than anything when walking out of the theatre I wanted to start rereading the book immediately--not because the movie was wretched, but because it reminded me of how much I love this story.


That sums up my feelings pretty well, actually.


Yup.

If nothing else, the movie has reignited my love for the Enderverse. I want to re-read EG and then see the movie again.
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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby jimmyjazz951 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:45 am

I went to see the movie Friday morning. I never expect a movie based on a book to measure up to the book and with this one based on one of my favorites, I didn't go in with high expectation in that regard . After about 15 minutes in I was so disapointed almost walked out. I stayed and hoped it would get better. It didn't. There is so much in the movie that, had I not read the book, I wouldn't have understood. But, having read the book I found it vague and out of context. As just a movie, I thought it sucked. It was full of actors that I've seen do so much better work that I expected more on that alone.

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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby PetraVecchio_ » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:53 am

I was generally pleased with the movie. I came in with very low expectations. I give it a 3.5 out of 5. It was too face paced for my liking.

I was pretty excited when I walked into my honors geometry and everyone was raving about how amazing it was, and how surprised they were that the "video game" turned out to be real. The fact that they went to see the movie, not knowing there was a book, in my opinion, is a good thing

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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby thoughtcannon » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:19 pm

My feelings were similar to locke's. I felt like they hit all the important beats that exist in the novel, but didn't connect them emotionally in any given scene mostly due to the lack of characterization for the side characters. There were some changes that were very sensible (like putting Bean in Ender's launch group) that they failed to capitalize on. I actually really liked the last few moments of the movie. I didn't like the little hissy fit that occurred with Ender vs. Graff after the final campaign. I feel like Ender's reaction to his unknowing act of genocide would include more horror and sadness than anger. I thought the interaction between Ender, the Mind Game, and the Bugger queen was one of the most truly sci-fi moments in a film that I've seen in awhile. The way they linger on dying queen's eyes, strongly suggesting their inability to communicate with each other, and yet Ender understands.

As for the whole "they shouldn't react like that to losing a game" as a former World of Warcraft player I can tell you that is exactly the reaction that occurred when we wiped on bosses we thought we had until some royal screw up on someone's part. The simulations Ender and Co. face are quite similar to the raid bosses in WoW in that each member of the group has a certain role they must fulfill and the raid leader must delegate to class officers.

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Re: "I HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE AND I MUST TALK ABOUT IT" Thread

Postby Boothby » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:44 pm

I'm going to have to look for a used PS3 or something on Craigslist!

My friends and I never reacted that way (at least I don't THINK we did) when playing Dungeons and Dragons in college....but that was over 100 years ago.
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