Anton's Key...

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Anton's Key...

Postby The Puppetmaster » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:35 am

If Bean is like infinitely smart, then why doesn't he try to find a way to turn off the gene?

P.S. Don't get all philisophical on me ok?
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Postby hive_king » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:10 pm

Because it'd ruin the story.


And also, just because he's very smart doesn't mean he knows anything about genetics. He didn'thave the proper education and was too busy saving the world to learn.
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Postby The Puppetmaster » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:45 pm

I see your point. But if you put your mind to it, anything is possible! lol :lol:
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Postby neo-dragon » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:35 pm

I think that in one of the books Anton or maybe Volescu did make the comment that it was a pity that Bean wasn't trained in genetics or biochemistry. By the time he learned of his condition I suppose that not even Bean could hope to become an expert in the field while trying to help Peter hold the entire world together, and protecting his loved ones from Achilles, and then searching for his babies.

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Postby luminousnerd » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:29 pm

Because Bean isn't infinitely smart. He's just smarter than any human. Doesn't make him omnipotent. He doesn't know anything about genetics and by the time he finds out he's damned to die, he doesn't have the time to learn.
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Postby Warmaker » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:20 am

With all the hinting at the possibility that the defect is incurable, I figured that Card was trying to tell us that it IS incurable.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:04 am

I never thought that Anton's Key was incurable. I thought that it would be impossible for Bean to cure it, since he wasn't trained in genetics and such. I always thought that Bean's children would find the cure. Bean always seemed destined to be a tragic character. Blessed with super-human intelligence, but set to die far too young. I believe Card once said that Bean would be dead by the end of Shadow Puppets. But here we are with Bean surviving the Shadow series, as he is heading off to space with his kiddies. Card seems unwilling to let Bean die, so he may find a cure or still be alive when someone else does.

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Postby jotabe » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:19 am

Thing is that, within that reality, it should be possible for Bean to reach mastery of biology in a surprisingly short time. His brain doesn't get stupider (more stable, fixed) over time, as in normal humans, since it retains the baby brain explosive growth, which implies new synaptic connections are appearing all the time.
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Postby SaintDrogo » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:39 am

I think that a cure will be found, either by someone strangely "zipped" over from the Ender saga, or by Bean or one of his kids, OR by someone on Earth loooong down the related line of characters. Like Petra and Peter's great great grandneice's adopted daughter or something. But then Bean'll be like the next Mazer Rackham, just in case something else goes wrong, or another book may come up where people from the Beansaga weigh in on and we see their perspective of the whole Lusitanian genocide issue, and Bean was actually on Earth the whole time and had a HUGE impact and we didn't even know until that book came out.

Maybe.
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Postby Janus%TheDoorman » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:45 pm

I'm not sure if I'm remembering it right, but IIRC there was some mention of an accounting program developing near-sentient levels of processing ability somewhere earlier in the Shadow series, which I suppose is OSC's way of telling us that Jane's humming away in the background.

As lame and universe bending as it would be, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Jane popped Bean out of reality for a bit, and popped him back in sans the Anton's Key gene.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:51 pm

Well, I do think Jane was implied. However, she didn't blip anyone out and back un until 3000 years later. And I don't care how fast that ship is traveling, if Bean survives that long with no cure, than Card offically killed the series for me.

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Postby neo-dragon » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:16 pm

I don't think it would be that unreasonable for Bean to survive for 3000 years. Ender and Val only aged 10 years in as much time, and they stopped to live on planets for months at a time. It was also established that Bean would live longer in space because there would be less strain on his heart in zero-g.

That being said, I still think that it will be lame if Card has Bean survive after all. He was supposed to kill him off in SotG, so he's already copped out once.
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Postby SaintDrogo » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:34 pm

Yeah, I'm not terribly terribly amped about any such possibilities, really. To be fair, I kind of like the whole "what if?" ending the more I think about it.
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Postby mazer » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:42 pm

I think some one on lusitania will find the cure and some how contact bean...

perfect new story

as for the cure itself I imagine It would not actually be that hard we have growth hormones it cant be that hard to find a way to suppress them

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Postby jotabe » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:41 am

If i am not wrong, in SotG Graff tells Bean (well, implies) that they can accelerate him to near-light speed without suffering the effects of acceleration (0-g would reduce strain over his heart, but the acceleration required to reach near-light speed would increase it, at least till the moment you shut down the engines, where you pass to 0-g). He was implying there was a way to "turn off" a good part or all of the inertial mass of the ship. That means that they can accelerate him arbitrarily close to light speed, depending on which percentage of the mass they can turn off. So, 3000 years "earth-time" could easily be just a few days-weeks-months for Bean.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:49 am

That being said, I still think that it will be lame if Card has Bean survive after all. He was supposed to kill him off in SotG, so he's already copped out once.
He has copped out more than once when it has come to killing Bean. He seems unwilling to let this character go, while seemingly giving him credit for most of the achievements in the Enderverse. I am half way expecting that in the last book we find out that Ender is a robot that has been secretly controlled by Bean the entire time. So, I'm not saying that the it is impossible for Bean to survive 3000 year, I'm just saying that he needs to die.

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Postby iifuinki » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:18 pm

as for the cure itself I imagine It would not actually be that hard we have growth hormones it cant be that hard to find a way to suppress them
As I'm not sure that their is a way to alter your genes after they've been in use that long, I think this would probably be the easiest way. I do not believe there would be a cure, just treatment.

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Postby Black Dove » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:15 pm

As I'm not sure that their is a way to alter your genes after they've been in use that long, I think this would probably be the easiest way. I do not believe there would be a cure, just treatment.
Oh, there will be a cure. Either Bean's children (depending on how much they have aged) will find it, or more likely they will go to Lusitania. After hearing that the Descolada has been neutralized, Bean will direct his ship there. To get the cure, all you need to do is go Outside. :wink:

And Card has already shown that genes can be altered after that long of a use. (ex. Path)
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:33 am

Luistania would not have even been founded by the time Bean would have gotten there. This ship is simply traveling out into space with no stops. So for Luistania to be founded, the ship would have to travel passed it, stop and turn around. That would definitely add stress and should kill Bean.

I think the cure is the Descolada. Quara thinks that it is a ramen being because it sends messages. And they find the home planet of the Descoladores, could be Bean's children.

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Postby Bean_wannabe » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:38 am

Bean would never send out homicidal viruses into uncharted space

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Postby Eddie Pinz » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:44 am

Who said Bean sent it? Or that it was sent out on purpose?

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Postby eriador » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:01 pm

I have a feeling that the descoladores sent the virus out a lot longer than three thousand years before ender's arrival on lusitania.

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Postby Eddie Pinz » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:25 pm

eri,
I'm not so sure. Three thousand years is a long time. Especially for a virus that moves that fast.

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Postby eriador » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:43 pm

Okay.... so Bean gets to the planet, his progeny cure themselves, develop culture and language that is based on genetic manipulation (makes sense if they cured themselves) and then set on a campaign of terraforming w/ viruses, and manage to infect hundreds of planets, including Lusitania, all in 3K years. I doubt it. What's more likely is that the Descoladores end up curing him somehow.

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Postby SaintDrogo » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:39 pm

In any event, I don't think it's going to be a book I'll pick up. It was a little reaching to me to have the double wedding at the end of CotM, now if I have to see them all in some big futuristic Brady Bunch I might vomit.
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Postby Darth Petra » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:00 pm

Because then there wouldn't be enough conflict.
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Postby Dr. Mobius » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:45 pm

As lame and universe bending as it would be, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Jane popped Bean out of reality for a bit, and popped him back in sans the Anton's Key gene.
It doesn't work that way. Even in the infinite possibilities of Outside, you still have to know exactly what you want to create. Otherwise you'll end up a poor schmuck like Ender. It's been awhile since I've read Xeno, but the problem wasn't that they didn't know how to defeat the descolada. They knew (eventually) how to create the recolada, but they also knew it was impossible to do with the tools available, hence the need for Outside.

Same applies to Bean. Outside won't help him a damn bit if he doesn't already know how to turn off the gene.
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Postby SaintDrogo » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:32 am

What they'd need to do is get Volescu and Anton Outside to think of Bean as he should have been. I guess Anton would have to think of the parts where the key is, Volescu of the fetal Bean, and Bean of himself as he is. I don't know if people can collaborate on something Outside. I doubt it, cos what if one of them saw something or considered it different and ended up creating something like Ed's mother in Fullmetal Alchemist?
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