My first Ender

[spiaseck]

My first Orson Scott Card book, I loved Ender’s Game! I couldn’t put it down, read it in just 2 days. Although I found myself a little preoccupied with Ender’s character and his development, there were so many underlying themes to think about. The buggers forced the world into peace. Is OSC trying to say that in order for all countries in this world to get along we must have one common enemy with our entire civilization at stake? This isn’t a typical war over land or power either; it is due to an inability to communicate, a lack of understanding the enemy. Or is that really what all war is about?
Another thought to consider is the government control. The I.F. had control over Ender since they authorized his birth. I think OSC is suggesting something here about the power of the government.
Violence is another issue. Destroy them before they destroy us, use any means necessary to do so. And what is OSC trying to say about violence when in two situations where Ender is trying to defend himself, he ends up killing a child?

[zeroguy]

Is OSC trying to say that in order for all countries in this world to get along we must have one common enemy with our entire civilization at stake?

It didn't seem like they got along terribly well even when we had that common enemy. This sounds more like a theme from Speaker for the Dead.

[irnstad]

Peace during war or something like that is known as Pax something or other, some latin word, it's when you're at war with someone but at home everything is going smoothly and the government still functions like it's supposed to. Is that what you're talking about? If so, the last one was the Cold War. (thank you ap world for that knowledge)

[Tcashon]

The IF did not have control over Ender, they authorized his birth, yes, but the decision to join the battle was Ender's alone. When Graff ask him then he could have said no, and then Ender's game would have been a very short, and a very boring story.

In my head I sort of relate the IF to today's U.N. -- albeit the fictionary IF is much better at its job than the U.N.

That's my 2 and a half cents.

[luminousnerd]

The IF did not have control over Ender, they authorized his birth, yes, but the decision to join the battle was Ender's alone. When Graff ask him then he could have said no, and then Ender's game would have been a very short, and a very boring story.

I doubt it highly. Ender was genius. No matter what, his life was bound to be exciting. Unless he purposely suppressed it. I think he might have taken Peter's role but differently. Or not. Who knows? Methinks it wouldn't have been short and boring though.

[Tcashon]

True, I think it would have been interesting to see a war between Peter and Ender happen on Earth. Actually that might be a really good fanfic (even as I wrote that the thought came that it might already have been done, time for searching!) It would be a great story to have Ender come back from space to Liberate Earth from a tyrannical Peter.

Keep in mind that is a version that would be interesting to me, don't blast me on how it would never happen for whatever reason.

[luminousnerd]

True, I think it would have been interesting to see a war between Peter and Ender happen on Earth. Actually that might be a really good fanfic (even as I wrote that the thought came that it might already have been done, time for searching!) It would be a great story to have Ender come back from space to Liberate Earth from a tyrannical Peter.

Keep in mind that is a version that would be interesting to me, don't blast me on how it would never happen for whatever reason.

Umm...Card frowns on fanfics. He hates them.

[Tcashon]

Umm...Card frowns on fanfics. He hates them.

At what point did I lead you to believe that I even care what Card thinks about fanfics? Whether he likes them or not would have no impact on me writing or reading what I described above.

Fanfics are not out there for Card anyways, they are created by the fans for the fans.

[luminousnerd]

Umm...Card frowns on fanfics. He hates them.

At what point did I lead you to believe that I even care what Card thinks about fanfics? Whether he likes them or not would have no impact on me writing or reading what I described above.

Fanfics are not out there for Card anyways, they are created by the fans for the fans.

Well because you are talking about writing a fanfic of HIS work, I just sort of assumed you had at least SOME respect for his wishes.

[Tcashon]

No. At least not for those particular wishes.

It seems that my "what if this" and "what if that" questions has been morphed into an assault on the integrity of OSC's work. I assure you that it is not.

I enjoy his books of course, I love the way he writes, and I love the characters that he has created. But if I or someone else wants to take them just a step further and explore the characters in our own perspective who is harmed by that?

If you think a fanfic is going to destroy the integrity of the characters you worship then by all means don't read it.

And luminous....yes I respect Card, but just because he doesn't like the idea of someone messing around with his characters is not a good enough reason for me not to get however much extra I can out of them.

[neo-dragon]

Just be aware that if your fanfics turn up online and they come to Card's attention he may take action against you. I'm pretty sure that even on these forums (in their past incarnation) his assistant has contacted the admins/mods to have fanfics removed. I don't think it's so much a matter of the integrity of his work as it is him seeing such unauthorized stories as a threat to the security of his copyright. That's where Card sees the harm, and whether you agree or not, I believe that it's his legal prerogative to make the call.

I'm just giving you fair warning.

[luminousnerd]

No. At least not for those particular wishes.

It seems that my "what if this" and "what if that" questions has been morphed into an assault on the integrity of OSC's work. I assure you that it is not.

I enjoy his books of course, I love the way he writes, and I love the characters that he has created. But if I or someone else wants to take them just a step further and explore the characters in our own perspective who is harmed by that?

If you think a fanfic is going to destroy the integrity of the characters you worship then by all means don't read it.

And luminous....yes I respect Card, but just because he doesn't like the idea of someone messing around with his characters is not a good enough reason for me not to get however much extra I can out of them.

A) Card would be well within his rights to bring a lawsuit if you published it.

B) As Card points out, you never do your best work in someone else's universe. It impedes your writing skills to have some of the work done for you.

[Tcashon]

I have no intention of publishing anything whatsoever.

But I will continue to read and write what I enjoy as I please until it comes to the point that I am asked to quit. I understand that he has a legal right, but I am not out to get him.

Looks like I'll just have to keep things under the radar, less I be barbecued.

I fear I have caused the thread to derail with this useless argument, although I stand by it, I will not continue it further here.

[anonshadow]

B) As Card points out, you never do your best work in someone else's universe. It impedes your writing skills to have some of the work done for you.

While everything else you're saying is true, as a writer, I'm actually kind of offended by this. It doesn't have to impede your writing skills--it can help to develop them, because you're taking one step at a time. You don't need to create the world, or even, necessarily, the characters. That means that you can focus solely on developing your style and keeping characters consistent, which in turn allows you to move out of that and into creating your own worlds and your own unique characters after you've gotten some confidence. Fanfics are also just a good way to get the gears in your head rolling. You don't usually do your best work in someone else's universe, but everything you do will not always be your best work. Like writing prompts, like NaNoWriMo, etc, the purpose is not always to churn out a masterpiece. It's to develop your skill.

It is entirely OSC's perogative to say that fanfics aren't okay, but fanfics do have their place.

[zeroguy]

Didn't Card write what was essentially a fanfic for the Foundation series in Maps in a Mirror?

[neo-dragon]

The difference being that he was approached by the Asimov estate and they requested it. It's not fanfiction when the owners of the copyright invite you to write a story for them. Same goes for the various authors who are contracted by Lucasfilm Limited to write Star Wars novels, for example.

I don't think that Card has ever said that no author should ever write in someone else's universe, it's just that he doesn't think it's a good way to start out. You should be well established with your own works first. That is, if you're serious about being a writer. If you're just doing it for fun, I guess it doesn't matter.

[zeroguy]

The difference being that he was approached by the Asimov estate and they requested it. It's not fanfiction when the owners of the copyright invite you to write a story for them. Same goes for the various authors who are contracted by Lucasfilm Limited to write Star Wars novels, for example.

Thank you; didn't know that.

[Tcashon]

If you're just doing it for fun, I guess it doesn't matter.

Thank you, this is exactly what I mean.

The fanfics that I write and/or read are for ME. MY enjoyment. I don't publish, I don't post, and I am definitely not taking Card's copyright from him.

If that rubs him the wrong way, I'm sorry but that's how it is.

[The Puppetmaster]

Dont fight just be friends and accept people for who they are.
Total hippie style.

[Tcashon]

Yeah......that totally furthers the thread....

[Finde027]

wouldn't it be more fun to write your own story in your own universe. OSC universe was different and new, but you can always come up with new ideas to further Sci-fi in literature.

[Jezebel]

Just be aware that if your fanfics turn up online and they come to Card's attention he may take action against you. I'm pretty sure that even on these forums (in their past incarnation) his assistant has contacted the admins/mods to have fanfics removed. I don't think it's so much a matter of the integrity of his work as it is him seeing such unauthorized stories as a threat to the security of his copyright. That's where Card sees the harm, and whether you agree or not, I believe that it's his legal prerogative to make the call.

I'm just giving you fair warning.

I thought that it was fair use to take the setting and/or characters and put them in an entirely novel plot. Of course, if the fanfic were posted here, OSC could ask that it gets taken down, but he has no real legal path, except bullying the author and forcing a settlement.