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Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:56 am
by BobbyOodle
I know that some people are gonna strongly disagree with me, but Xenocide tops all of the other books for me.
Don't get me wrong, I love them all with a very burning passion.
But this book was centered around ethical, moral, religious, and family problems, and was tackled and executed with such accuracy and precision that I wonder if Orson Scott Card has experience all of these things personally.
If so, may God have mercy on his soul.

Also, you get to spend a lot of time with The Ribiera (not sure how to spell) family and Ender and seeing what the kids from Speaker For the Dead have become is exhilarating. And the evolution of Jane, and the two species.

Some of the ethical dilemmas really hit home, and hurt. Examples being Grego's Mob, Novinha yelling at Ender after Quim goes to Warmakers forest.

Also, I just adore the Pequininos. They're so awesome.

Plus I have a total man crush on Olhado, and a complete lady crush on grown up, and other Valentine.

Coming in a close second though, is Ender's Shadow.
I'd love to explain why I love each of these books, but I'm not sure that anyone would care to read it. So if you want to know, feel very free to ask me directly on this forum/post.

Please tell me what your favorite book is and why! I'd love to know.

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:19 am
by Rootersfriend
You just made my brain explode a little bit trying to choose ONE book...And I think as a direct result of this explosion I am unable to answer the question haha. Obviously Ender's Game is kind of in a league of it's own and will always hold a higher place in my heart than the others, but I think I agree with you that Xenocide may be next on the list...But gosh, I don't know, I could argue for almost any of them to be the best.

I'll say this though, Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow pretty much got me through some...we'll say though times. I learned more about myself, and how I do/can relate to people, and how I view myself, and how to survive in a hellish life at the time. So for those types of reasons Ender's Shadow would be second, but for other reasons I'm with you on Xenocide I think...

I'm going to end this post so that I'll stop flip flopping and second guessing myself. Or I'll post again later and maybe I can narrow it down to a favorite in the Ender Series, a favorite in the Shadow Series, and a favorite in the Formis Wars Series (so far).

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:17 am
by BobbyOodle
Okay, I don't want your brain to explode, trust me. How about instead of exploding, you just give yourself a headache?
Here, I'll help.

Try to put them first in order of how much they mean to you (through subseries, or the Enderverse as a whole. ie: Shadow Series, Ender's Quartet, side stories, or all it doesn't matter).

If you're up to it, then, put them in order of what you think are the highest quality books, not which ones you liked most, the quality of the story, writing, character development. Write as much as you please or can about it, I promise I will read everything and cherish every thought.

Okay, I'm gonna try it, though later this week when I finish Shadow of the Giant I will update it. Hell, maybe I'll update it every time I finish a new Ender book. After this I have 4 waiting on my mind.

Here goes.

Favorites, meaning how much they mean to me:


1) Xenocide
Because there are the most characters that I genuinely care about in this story. Olhada makes my heart smile. Quim gives me independent hope. Ender is a perfect human being as an adult and father, and has honestly turned into my role model...And just how we get Valentine back.
Also, because of the bare science fiction aspects. The theory on the Outside and philotic binding and webs are introduced and blew my freakin' mind. Also just the development on touchy subjects, or conflicts, such as the fleet and Jane.
But, first and foremost, because of the ethical, moral (not sure if those two mean the same thing or not), religious, and family issues that Card just will not shy away from in the slightest are SO spot on. It makes you wonder what the hell he went through to see all of these scenarios so clearly.

2) Ender's Shadow
Ender's Game is a book in its own category in my head. But the brilliant part about ES, is that it touches on some of these same scenes but in the mind of the tiny genius from Rotterdam. The two scenes that got me most were right after Ender killed Bonzo and talked to his army and walked away and it talked about how his whole army could see blood on his back and arms, and knew that it wasn't his. The other is when Ender confides a little in Bean, and then Bean sleeps on the foot of his bed.

3) Speaker for the Dead
I think that in itself, this is the highest quality book in the whole Enderverse that I've read thus far, in my personal taste at least.
It started off really slow got you attached, and then slapped you in the face a few times.
It's also the first encounter of adult Ender, and you get to see how Ender deals with a family for the first time, and the Speaking, dear God. He lays it down. Ender's guilt kills.
On a side note, Novinha (pronounced No-Veen-Yah) is the prettiest name in the universe.

4) Ender's Game
The book that started it all. Did you know that the only reason Ender's Game was written into a novel is because Card had the idea for Speaker for the Dead? He had the idea and wanted to throw Ender in there, but his character hadn't developed the way it had to to be the protagonist in Speaker. And of course he needed to add in the hive queen. Being in Ender's head is to understand stress, understand the weight of the world on your shoulders literally, to understand ambition, and to understand how to deal with these things. He has the workings of a true leader, and it is in this where my love for Ender as a human being began.

5) Shadow of the Hegemon
This book holds a dear place in my heart, because it is the continuation of Bean, and his very complicated character. This is more of a standard book, to me. Because it has the conflict from the beginning, it's not just a series of conflicts and how one deals with them. Achilles introduces the problem, and the story is about Bean dealing with it, and trying to fix it. Just like the transition between EG and Speaker, the two being drastically different kinds of books, the same remains between ES, and Shadow of the Hegemon. But this book is where it starts to hurt, because of Bean's growth problem. It was also perfect to see Bean in the commander role of a real army, so he finally got to show what sort of leader he was, and what sort of leader an army commander is supposed to be.

6) Children of the Mind
This one, feels like Xenocide but more focused on feelings. On love, and personal character growth and development. Miro is an awesome character, he has the mindset and thoughts of a cripple, and has all of the self loathing but in his old body. Ender is trying to help Novinha while his mind is split up into copies roaming the universe. Honestly I would love this book so much more if he wouldn't have left the Descoladores planet conflict SO OPEN ENDED and unresolved. Other than that, this book was awesome. A very worthy conclusion to Ender's story.

7) Shadow Puppets
This may be listed as m y least favorite, but that doesn't mean that I didn't love it. It just didn't have the enormity that the other books had. Honestly, it felt a lot more about Petra and Bean's love than about Achilles. What they do with Achilles is suitable and intense, but I felt more for Petra and Bean and their kid situation. Also, Bean gets painfully huge and it hurts me to read. And on another side note, Ender's parents are fucking great. Awesome characters and how they view parenting and Peter is so pure and SO obscure.

That may have been a bit too long or a bit too truncated. But whatever.

Another thing to think about it could be which series you prefer, Shadow or Ender.

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:25 am
by Rootersfriend
I'll have to go back and re-read plotlines, it's been about 6 months or so since I last read them all, they all blur into one story for the most part, but I'll do my best, just gimme some time haha.

Real quick on your list, I may be wrong, it's happened once before :wink: but I thought his original idea was to write Xenocide, not SFTD, and everyone said it would take way too much backstory for something like that to work so he wrote ender's game. Again, I am open to being wrong on that though.

Man you are making me want to go back and reread them all right now but a) I'm at work, and b) I want to be fresh on them right now, not in 3 months or whatever it would take me to read them all again haha.

Let us know what you think of the rest of them!

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:30 am
by Rootersfriend
Crap, meant to answer your last question.

The series are so different. I meanone is space based and the other is land based. I love the shadow series because I love how realistic it is in the sense that it shows the movement and manipulation of countries and war/strategies that could actually happen (or at least that we can picture happening given that space warfare isn't a thing yet). So I love all the espianage (sp?) and close calls and such with the shadow series, it's very intense, fast paced, and get's the heart pumping.
Ender series is a little more laid back in the sense that there is a lot happening, and some intense times but in general it is much more character development and interpersonal struggles. Which I also love, but differently.

So once again I am skirting your question with a not helpful answer :angel:
Ok Ok Ok, umm...I like the...ender series more, no wait, the shadow series, no wait, the...haha yeah Shadow.

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:01 pm
by BobbyOodle
I only know this, because of his foreword to SftD. But after that i kinda stopped reading he could have said something along the lines of what you're saying in Xenocide.

Yeah, I saw that. How Bean's stories are more relevant, and more real to us. Action packed. But I suppose what prefer in books is large ideas that hurt to think about, and watching regular people (if you can consider Ender regular, he's more regular than Bean) deal with them and do everything they can to fix them while trying to deal with struggles within themselves.

Ender's Quartet means more to me.. (Given that I haven't finished the shadows yet)
But they feel a lot more like the mirror images. They tackle a lot of the same thing but in different views.
A lot of the ethical dilemmas are present in both series, but it seems as though Ender's quartet offers the leader's point of view, the big picture, the thoughts behind the action.
But with the shadow series, it shows the actions, the results of the rationality, and the struggles in the heat of the moment, unlike the planning aspect that is much more present in Ender's Quartet.
I think they both are absolutely necessary to make eachother seems better.
Like, Ender's Game feels so much cooler after reading Ender's Shadow (not to say it wasn't badass before, when it was a stand alone).
And then what came out of the struggles of the Shadow series is what life is based on in Ender's Quartet; the hundred worlds, Peter's successful Hegemony. The ansibles and such.

Off topic kinda, but I hope that we find out that philotes are real things and that ansibles can really happen. The basic science appears to be there (coming from a guy with little to no understanding of physics) but then again, it just sounds like a nice thing, like a dream to have all of that come true. but then we'd need a Jane.


But, so far, Shadow of the Giant is being good to me. I like it so far (i'm like 1/4 of the way into it) as much as ES. I read somewhere that if I didn't cry at the end of SotG i have no soul. And usually i cry a lot at books, well good books. Except the only times I've cried during this series was after Bean and Petra's visit to Rotterdam in Shadow Puppets, and he shows her around to where Poke died.

And Grego's War/Mob in Xenocide when they burn down the closest Pequenino forest. That hurt. And a few other times in Xenocide. Honestly, I had to put the book down a few times because some of the family fights were so spot on that I felt sick. Or the suspense of a situation was too much and I couldn't handle what was gonna happen. Like when the Lusitania Fleet launched Little Doctor against the IF's command not to. Or when Jane is dying. Huh, I guess I cried more than I thought I did.

Yeah, when you read those plotlines you should regain some earlier memories, probably and hopefully, and earlier thoughts you had while reading them. And then you're required to share :D

I like to have a pencil with me at all times when reading a book. So I can annotate and circle stuff that hits home, or is just memorable. So when I talk to people online or in person I can refer to the book and remember all the stuff that I thought.

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:17 pm
by Rootersfriend
I do the same thing, my copy of ender's game looks like a frickin' 4 year old got let loose on it, marked up, scribbled in, notes in the margins, and the rest are the same, but to a lesser degree probably. I always semi-joke that whoever borrows my copy is also going to be reading my life story because I've highlited and marked it up so much, and written so many notes about how "X" in the book is like "Y" in my life or whatever.
I just don't have my books here at work (yeah, I work sometimes too, I don't just spend all day on here haha).

I feel like I remember it all pretty darn well, I just don't know which bits belong to which books, like I said, it's like one big story in my brain.

Oh man, I definitely shed tears at the end of sotg, and definitely in xenocide. I mean shoot, when ender switched off Jane...Holy frozen rope that killed me...I read those books with my then girlfriend who was killed by a stupid drunk driver, so they're a little hard for me to go back to for that reason as well. Her and I got a lot closer through reading those together and laughing and crying together about them. Heck, we had planned on taking our honeymoon in Samoa when we got married. We had kid's names picked out based on our favorite characters...Sorry to bring this to a dark place haha but man...Yeah seeing the movie will be a little rough without her I think. Is what it is at this point though, gotta move forward and learn to lean into people and God and all that!

...Sorry didn't mean to turn that into a rant like that

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:24 pm
by Rootersfriend
The honeymoon in Samoa was because that's where Peter and Wang Mu go haha, wasn't just randomly telling you facts, it was tied in haha

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:13 pm
by BobbyOodle
Dude that's rough, the thing about your girlfriend. I lost my brother to cancer a few years back, so I know it sucks to lose someone so close...Except for some reason to cope I read 2001: A Space Odyssey haha

Most of the time, I consistently think "What would Ender do.." "This is kinda like this part in Ender's Game, maybe I should do this..." so just on the way that I think the series has helped me a lot. Adult Ender is the epitome of great human being, and now I feel as though I may strive to be like Ender. A good dad, leader, husband, everything.

That scene on Samoa where Peter had just gotten Ender's Aiua and realized he loved Wang-mu was adorable. He watched her run away to Grace and thought "This love is enough for me, to watch you from afar and admire you, I hope this love is what you want, because it's enough for me." something alone those lines, and I was like "When did this turn into a quality romance novel?!"

Yeah...I work sometimes...but mostly i read. haha

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:22 pm
by Rootersfriend
I just have PWEB open all day on my computer, along with my email, and whenever I see my email tick that I have a new one I pop over here haha.

Sorry about your brother, life's a female dog sometimes isn't it? Yeah, most of the time when I'm in a tough situation I can relate it back to an event in the book, or think how would he think, what would his reaction be, etc...

I think one of my favorite lines is from ES, pretty much sums up my life since I was about 10 or 11...and I can't find it online, I don't want to butcher it, I'll grab my book when I get home, I wanna make sure I get it exactly right haha.

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:48 pm
by Rootersfriend
ES page 126 at the bottom

"No point in getting emotional about anything. Being emotional didn't help with survival. What mattered was to learn everything, analyze the situation, choose a course of action, and then move boldly."

I didn't have these words at the time because I didn't read them until several years ago, but that phrase summs up my life from about 10-22 yeears old, heck even until now, but I'm learning how to not just shut things out haha, hooray for being screwed up! :)

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:27 am
by BobbyOodle
Sounds like you're blaming Ender :)
I finished SotG and Shadows in Flight. And I enjoyed Flight much more than I thought I would. Now I just want Shadows Alive.

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:35 am
by Rootersfriend
No blame, I'm greatful for all that I've learned through Bean and Ender. I think I relate much closer with the Bean, though a lot of the though processes of Ender are kind of spot on with how I think. I think it stems from always being the small kid and getting picked on, you learn to end battles before they turn into wars, I've got a quick tounge and can hold my own when I need to.

I know what you mean, doesn't it suck when you just want to have more and more of the story but for whatever reason can't just yet? Haha, hang in there!

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:22 pm
by BobbyOodle
Bean is a lot more, active than i am. He reacts so quickly, but Ender is more suave and slow about it, and I think I'm more like Ender.

Luckily I am reading Ender in Exile, and have First Meetings and A War of Gifts in my possession.

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:51 pm
by tofuriku
For me it's Ender's Game all the way. It was just so easy to read and so interesting. The Speaker series and sequels to Ender's Shadow felt like an enormous slog to get through and I had to drop them.
I also adore the short stories and EiE. The short stories gave such a unique perspective and I found myself loving all of the characters in them.

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:29 am
by KelPark
I would have to agree that Xenocide stands out as far as any book can stand out in a series of books that comprise a complete story, a complete voice. Scott Card always talks about how Ender's Game, and Ender's Slhadow are stand alone books from ther rest of ther series. But I disagree, just like everything has as a beginning, all life is born, as all stories need a beginning, a foundation that speaks for the lives that each story represent. But I digress...
Xenocide posits one of the greatest ethical questions that can be asked. What constitutes a living being, a sentient life form, while concomitantly asking, what rights do such beings hold, comparitively speaking? Scott Card answers this dilemma with such beauty and vision that it left me contemplating my own actions toward people and situations I don't understand. His words made me realize that to stop at meer forms is only allowing to further breed ignorance and judgement upon other people and the beauty of this ecosystem we live in.
What I took away from this novel, is similar to what I understand of Myazaki films, that just because nature cannot speak, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be heard. That simply because we see a tree as something inert, disposable, and designed for human consumption, does not mean that this being in nature deserves our respect any less than an animal or being of this planet.
I believe that Scott Card asks us to look deeper and realize that all life shares a symbiotic relationship that is dependent upon each other, that to devalue one piece of the system out of hubris or misguided acts of self deluded dominance is a fools mission, an errant misunderstanding of what life is meant to be, what it means to enjoin, include, rather than exclude, or conquer. Life is beautiful, it is something we all share in common with every organism on this planet, we are all made of the same four elements, shouldn't that be reason enough.
The killing of the trees, subsequently the death of the pequeneos still haunts me as reader because it represents so much of who we are as a society. What we fear, what we subjugate, or attempt to conquer, we do from lack of understading. All life has a place. All voices have a forum.

Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:22 am
by TerresaWiggin
My favorite parts of the series are primarily those with Petra. As a girl in comouter science and engineering I'm used to being surrounded by guys. Petra's sass, sarcasm, persistance, and dedication (along with brilliance of course) was inspiring to me as I grew up with her, reading both series at times fairly well aligned with her own age. (Perhaps a bit young near the end) I do feel that while there aren't a ton of female characters in the Enderverse those that do exist are pretty damn impressive.


Re: Favorite book in the Enderverse and why...

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:02 pm
by Ender's_Disciple
My favorite book would be the classic "Ender's Game", because it brings you through Ender's childhood, his upbringing, and into his very soul. The way the book is wrote reminds me of someone doing a Speaking, just by the feel of the words and the sentence structure. Ender's Game is by far my favorite, if only because I'm only experienced enough to relate to him as he was when he was a child.