Earth Afire

Discuss all things pertaining to the EnderVerse milieu.
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Earth Afire

Postby Cassandra » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:28 pm

Release date: June 4th, 2013

I have to admit that I'm SUPER excited for this.
I loved Earth Unaware (much more than most of the shadow series.)
How mush Mazer do think we'll see in this one?
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby dk55717 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:40 am

I bought it! I read it! Its amazing!!!!!! I love the prequels and now I completely cannot wait until the next one! It took me less than a day to finish it and I plan to reread it soon. Its now got me planning for a bugger apocalypse instead of a zombie one haha!
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Rootersfriend » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:16 am

How mush Mazer do think we'll see in this one?
I liked the amount of Mazer but I want more haha I loved hearing all about the SAS stuff, that kind of tacticle stuff is just super fascinating to me. (The whole capture the flag game was awesome (which may have been in EU now that I think about it...Mixing them up)) But I am super excited to see where the final one goes and how they connect Mazer back in and all that!
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Boothby » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:02 am

I just finished reading (well, listening to the audio book) of Earth Unaware, and I'm about 1/3 of the way in to Earth Afire. They're both a lot of fun!

I am having some slight problems with the physics, of course (though, overall, Johnston & Card are pretty good with it all!)

  1. Just what, exactly, is the bandwidth of the Formic interference? If it kills radio signals, why does it also kill laser-line communication (implied visible or near-visible frequencies). And iif it kills those visible and near-visible frequencies, wouldn't the spaceship appear as a high-speed "blur" against the static background?
  2. The whole concern with doing things at "high speed" in space seems too much like a made-up problem. You're in space, speed is relative. If you're docking two ships at "high speed," you have to ask yourself, "At high speed when compared to...what?." Every once in a while the whole "High speed with respect to the space particles!" problem is mentioned, but it feels like an afterthought.
  3. I'm really loving the "gravity lensing" airship.....
  4. On El Cavador (Viktor's original ship), it sounded like the main centrifuge had to be slowed to a stop to get on or get off it, and then sped back up. Other times, Johnston/Card implied it was a little bit easier to access it, but they never went into detail. Card already knows how to solve that problem--I told him. He uses it in Shadows in Flight.
  5. In Earth Afire, they mention that the Formic ship uses side-thrusts to slow it down, so it doesn't get entrained in its own preceding plasma wake. A thrust vector to the side won't do anything to stop your forward velocity. And we've already been told that there are no side protuberances on the Formic ship. Larry Niven put actual thrusters out to the side of his ramscoops (well, that's how *I* always drew them!).


Like this:

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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Rootersfriend » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:20 am

Great thoughts Boothby!

I totally agree, I think with a lot of this stuff though I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for the sake of the story, because the rest of it is so good and well thought out. (Not saying you disagree with that.) I also agree about the GravLens, so cool. I think what's so hard with all of this kind of stuff is that there isn't really anything to reference. I mean we have the math to figure out a lot of this stuff, but we've never actually built ships like the ones described, we've never had colonies on the moon, or supply depots out near an astroid belt, so in addition to just being able to write a compelling, entertaining, at least some-what believable story, OSC is having to be an inventor, and try to back those inventions up as much as possible to quell the picky minds of people like myself, you, and the rest of the PWEBers haha. Us EG lover's are a loyal, hard to appease bunch, so he's got that to contend with. My hat's off to OSC for what he does. :hatsoff:

Again not saying you disagree with or were even saying anything contrary to this.


I have yet to read SiF so I'm excited to see how that issue was solved/used!
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Boothby » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:32 am

Or, you could read my chapter in "The Authorized Ender Companion"....

I do like how the Luna base uses solar energy. Lots and lots of solar energy. I also note how the Jukes (spelling? I'm listening to the book as audio books) are not just some pure-evil-villain, but are also responsible for some of the good tech, and do show compassion every once in a while. Typical Card (meant as a compliment!)
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby neo-dragon » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:26 pm

I also note how the Jukes (spelling? I'm listening to the book as audio books) are not just some pure-evil-villain, but are also responsible for some of the good tech, and do show compassion every once in a while. Typical Card (meant as a compliment!)
I haven't read "Earth Afire" yet but I remember thinking the same thing about Jukes when I read "Earth Unaware". I thought the main Jukes guy would be a standard corporate a-hole but I was pleasantly surprised when he demonstrated redeeming qualities.
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Ender's Father » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:16 am

I just finished reading (well, listening to the audio book) of Earth Unaware, and I'm about 1/3 of the way in to Earth Afire. They're both a lot of fun!

I am having some slight problems with the physics, of course (though, overall, Johnston & Card are pretty good with it all!)

  1. Just what, exactly, is the bandwidth of the Formic interference? If it kills radio signals, why does it also kill laser-line communication (implied visible or near-visible frequencies). And iif it kills those visible and near-visible frequencies, wouldn't the spaceship appear as a high-speed "blur" against the static background?
  2. The whole concern with doing things at "high speed" in space seems too much like a made-up problem. You're in space, speed is relative. If you're docking two ships at "high speed," you have to ask yourself, "At high speed when compared to...what?." Every once in a while the whole "High speed with respect to the space particles!" problem is mentioned, but it feels like an afterthought.
  3. I'm really loving the "gravity lensing" airship.....
  4. On El Cavador (Viktor's original ship), it sounded like the main centrifuge had to be slowed to a stop to get on or get off it, and then sped back up. Other times, Johnston/Card implied it was a little bit easier to access it, but they never went into detail. Card already knows how to solve that problem--I told him. He uses it in Shadows in Flight.
  5. In Earth Afire, they mention that the Formic ship uses side-thrusts to slow it down, so it doesn't get entrained in its own preceding plasma wake. A thrust vector to the side won't do anything to stop your forward velocity. And we've already been told that there are no side protuberances on the Formic ship. Larry Niven put actual thrusters out to the side of his ramscoops (well, that's how *I* always drew them!).


Like this:

Image
1) The Formic interference is caused by the slowing own of the Formic ship. It pulses, it fires an exhaust of Gamma Radiation that vents from the ship causing it to slow down. Gamma Radiation is extremely powerful/energetic and tends to screw with ALL KINDS of things. Including radio waves, laser lines, and of course organic material. It is extremely toxic to humans. This is what kills in most nuclear explosions, not the blast but the Gamma Radiation.

2) Although speed is relative in space, as you state. You must also understand that due to the speed small changes in rotation/orientation/direction or speed can result in LARGE differences in just a few seconds, as opposed to minutes or hours at slower speeds. If 2 ships are traveling relative to each other, at lets say 25,000 mph, sure they don't appear to move independently thus the illusion of relativity. But a small change, at lets say 100,000 mph would be 4 times as likely to change the vector or velocity of the other object. So it doesn't seem like much, but at higher speeds the margin for error is smaller. If things diverge in the smallest, the trajectory can change VERY quickly.

3) Yeah Gravity lens, this is of course the MD Device, or Doctor Device. So named because it is a Molecular Destabilizer Device, MD (or DR/Doctor). It was created by Jukes and tested by Jukes son. Then improved with respect towards it being a weapon. The device basically eats matter, the more matter the more the chain reaction can continue and the larger the field grows. Jukes Son almost got killed by it when he first fired it.

I can't address #4

5) First of all the ship doesn't appear to have any protuberances but it does. I mean it must if 3 huge ships come out of the Mothership. And also remember the Formics attacked Humans on the outside of the ship before they could plant explosives. There are other things that often come out of the ship/ships that are hidden at first.
Now as for the venting of ship. I can imagine a number of scenarios that would make this not a problem. Perhaps the vents are not exactly perpendicular to the ship but at an 89% angle. The ship would slow down (over a long enough time period), and due to the speed of the ship in relation to what is being vented, only a fraction of the (probably back part) of the ship would ever be subjected to the radiation.
Also there may be a shielding of gamma radiation from the formics ship. perhaps their force fields? I mean think, how does the gamma radiation get vented, it's created somewhere, goes through a series of ducts, surely there is a shielding in place here. Why not shield the entire outer hull in such material/technology. Then you can vent any which direction you want and it doesn't matter, as long as the radiation isn't INSIDE the ship.


BTW does anyone know how to get ahold of the author to fix a printing error/grammar error? Found a glaringly obvious one and want to report it to the author so future editions will be fixed.

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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Boothby » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:05 am

EF,

In space, all is relative. There is no way to know if you are moving at 25K mph against a stationary background, or if you are stationary, and the "background" is moving 25K mph with respect to you.

If two ships are travelling at 25K (or 100K) mph w/r/t each other, a slight push off to the side will be just that. Your velocity vector will have the long-axis components (which won't change much) and that slight sideways/outward vector which wouldn't be any different regardless of your main speed vector.

I'm thinking that the gravity lens is related to the MD device, but is MORE related (eventually) to the star-drive. Time (and additional novels) will tell. Read my chapter of the Alcubierre drive in "The Authorized Ender Companion"

And re. point 5, I think you missed my point. Johnston/Card talk about side-pointed deceleration bursts. Those would do nothing to decelerate you along the long-axis; they would just start moving you off to the side.
Last edited by Boothby on Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Rootersfriend » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:14 am

I think I'm with you Boothby, although you and EF's first points with vectors and all that is waaay over my head so I'm choosing not to comment on those and just smile and nod :wave: (or just wave stupidly)

I agree on the Grav Lens, I hadn't thought about the stardrive at first but that makes a lot of sense.

Also I feel like when I read about the side pointing venting I stopped and was confused for just that reason, but then something in my head became ok with it and said it made sense but going back and rereading it and such, you're right...Don't really get it.
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Boothby » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:41 pm

Here's a modern-day HUD in a protective (motorcycle) helmet:

http://i-hls.com/2013/08/a-new-smart-he ... d-hud/#%21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Earth Afire

Postby jmckey » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:00 am

I'm on my 2nd reading of this book (audible.com, so more listening I guess) and I'm starting to question again the idea that the Formics wouldn't have guessed at our species having sentience (I've read all of the Ender series including the Shadow books). I mean, how would a non-Ramen species even develop space travel? Or have the ability to leave their ships and systematically try to destroy your ship? Am I missing something obvious?

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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Boothby » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:49 am

JMCKEY,

IIRC, there's a mention in "Shadows In Flight" that the Hive Queen was full of s*** when she spoke to Ender about how it was "all a great, big misunderstanding."

I find it hard to believe that after your soldiers have been fighting a bunch of space-faring aliens (in space, no less, on and around their own space-ships!) that you would accidentally miss the oh-so-subtle clues that those "other" creatures are, perhaps, sentient.

Certainly, by the time you start spraying defoliant on those creatures and their planet, you've lost the right to say, "But...but...I didn't realize that there was an intelligent species living there!"

I think if someone were to find that dolphins were creating works of art, or multiple-story dwellings with elevators and a sensible floor numbering scheme, that it would continue to be OK for Japanese fishermen to just go and slaughter them wholesale for the meat markets.
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Luet » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:56 pm

Am I the only one thinking that we really don't need SIX Formic War novels? I mean, come on.

I'd really prefer him to get on that Shadows Alive/descolada book. Grrr.
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Boothby » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:16 pm

Personally, I really think that he's milked this whole thing for all that it's worth. He's serializing the story, and he's allowing for others (Johnston, his daughter Emily) to mop up for him.

He (Card) does this: he starts out great (and I seriously mean that), but then lets things carry on for far too long. Well, that's MY opinion, at least!

All we really need is for him to say in an interview is, "The descolada is....X!" and we can all get on with the rest of our lives.
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Luet » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:15 pm

I totally agree. Some of my favorite books of his are standalones: Pastwatch, Songmaster, Worthing Saga.

I wish he would leave all of these prequels and spin-offs alone and just finish the series once and for all. Though, I guess he's thinking of making money for retirement or whatever.
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby neo-dragon » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:20 pm

Yeah. This prequel trilogy isn't bad, but the only Enderverse book that I REALLY want to read is "Shadows Alive" (or whatever he ends up calling it). Anything else is just filler and is starting to dilute the greatness of the original saga.
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby Luet » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:06 pm

I agree that the prequel trilogy is pretty good but now they are planning a *second* prequel trilogy, so SIX altogether about the Formic Wars. That seems excessive.

And now the YA "Fleet School" series that is planned.

It's just enough already.
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Re: Earth Afire

Postby ukko » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:08 pm

I really like how things turned out, and the definition of Strategos, Polemarch and specially The Hegemon was quite nice!


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