Reading and Re-reading: Impressions along the way

[Taalcon]

THIS THREAD WILL HAVE SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING EXCEPT SHADOWS IN FLIGHT. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

It's been at least six years - if not more - since I last read Ender's Game. The last of the 'new books' I read was Shadow Puppets. My name is mentioned in Shadow of the Giant, and I don't even know why. I haven't read it.

With a lot of the movie news coming through, I realized I didn't remember much about the first book, and not a lot about the individual characters. I made the decision to re-read Ender's Game, as well as the other books in the series my own way. I'm going to share some of my impressions here as I go through the books. Expect spoilers for the specific books under discussion. This will certainly be more a thread for readers familiar with everything. While much of this will be revisiting old territory for me, some of it will still be new. (As I said, I haven't read Shadow of the Giant or Ender in Exile. I will be looking forward to reading Shadows in Flight with everyone else...but I might be late to that, depending on how quick this reading goes.)

E N D E R'S G A M E
I just finished Ender's Game. There's a lot, detail wise, I had forgotten. I'm a very different person now than I was the last time I read it. There's a lot of lines that had a lot more weight for me now than they did then. Overall, it was still just as exciting, and I was just as involved. Just...in different ways. Back in the day, I don't think I really grasped the gravity of Ender realizing he was a tool for Xenocide. I mean, I intellectually got it, but I didn't feel it. It was part of the story, and I followed it, but I didn't dwell on it.

When I first read it, it was an adventure story about the smart kid that nobody understood, and felt isolated from the world. That's a key part that resonated with me then, when I first read it during my high school years. Now, over a decade later, with more life experience, as someone who has experienced real pain, sorrow, joy, and, above all, fatherhood. I'm different. So, the story is different. I still find it fascinating, and important. Just for different reasons.

I have no idea how the movie plans to approach the end. I hope they go the route I somewhat remember from Ender's Shadow, and that I experienced this time as I read the book - with full knowledge of the gravity of the situation, but knowing that Ender doesn't know. Seeing him make those decisions, with us knowing he's sending officers to die, and seeing that he is very literally ordering the death of an entire species - all while he doesn't know it. That is high drama. That is tension. Knowing exactly what's at stake - being horrified at the decisions being made, wanting to shout out and give him more information... the fact that the 'surprise ending' can be re-read and have a very different but just as powerful (if not more) reaction really goes to show how well crafted and powerful the inherent underlying story is.

This is fun.

[locke]

The rule is after a reread you have to make a poster or write a trailer.

at least that's how I think it used to go, 10 years ago.

[Taalcon]

Heh.

I'm most of the way through Ender's Shadow now. It's interesting to read this from understanding Bean really as a savant. I have never met any true savants, but I have known individuals with different degrees of autism. Individuals who have been very logical and goal oriented based on the way their mind worked, but found many emotional responses not based on pure logic and detail incredibly hard to comprehend.

As intelligent as Bean is, I found it fascinating that in seeing through his eyes, I was seeing it through a very unreliable narrator. Bean has no comprehension of how others normally develop. Therefore, anyone who is his age - or older - who doesn't understand things the way he does must be an idiot. There was no real other point of reference. They had access to the same info he did, so why didn't they come to the same conclusion he did?

When Bean is slamming Ender, he's doing it based on his own, well, 'wiring'. He's taken emotion out of the picture - a key element in Ender's reasoning, drive, and methodology. Many times when Bean is pointing out faults in Ender, they aren't really faults. They're just a different way of doing things than Bean would. Which, in his mind, equaled 'stupid'.

Really enjoying this re-read-through. There are ao many details and nuances that I had either forgotten, or at the time of initial reading didn't have the experiences I have had since to notice and appreciate them.

[Luet]

So, what order are you reading them in? Obviously not the Speaker series before the Shadow one. I just started a reread of the Shadow ones to prep for Shadows in Flight and I'm really enjoying ES even though I've read it a handful of times in the past.

[Taalcon]

I'm open for change, but as it stands, this is the plan:
Ender's Game
Ender's Shadow
War of Gifts (First time read)
Shadow of the Hegemon
Shadow Puppets
Shadow of the Giant (First time read)
Ender in Exile (First time read)
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind
Shadows in Flight (First time read)

[locke]

One of my problems with Ender's Game/Ender's Shadow today is the whole idea of emotional savants. Child Genius is well known but it tends to occur in areas that are removed from emotion, mathematics, playing musical instruments, chess, for example, which are also the most common ways child genius manifests itself. Being an empathic savant is sort of what makes Ender so special, and unlikely, I'm not sure how much I believe in his abilities as written anymore. But a big part of that is more due to reading Bakker in the past few years, so A religion founding uber-genius that can read anyone and everyone and know what they are thinking and feeling is somewhat more appealing as the a****** Kellhus than the benignly inoffensive Ender.

[UnnDunn]

I'm open for change, but as it stands, this is the plan:
Ender's Game
Ender's Shadow
War of Gifts (First time read)
Shadow of the Hegemon
Shadow Puppets
Shadow of the Giant (First time read)
Ender in Exile (First time read)
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind
Shadows in Flight (First time read)

Unless you plan to burn through all those books in the two weeks before SiF releases, you might as well just read SiF immediately after reading EiE since (I believe) that's where SiF will fit in the timeline.

[Wind Swept]

Reread progress:
Ender's Game
Ender in Exile (first read)
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide - In progress

I don't recall what I thought of the OCD-as-gods subplot the first time I read Xenocide. I don't recall having a strong reaction to it.

I'm having a terrible time forcing myself to read Qing-jao's chapters this time through.

[Luet]

That's interesting. The Path subplot was some of my favorite parts.

[Wind Swept]

Ugh. Can't. Finish. Chapter...

"Repulsive" is the word I would use.

[UnnDunn]

Really? That bad? I agree that it's a fairly throw-away plot, but meh...

[Taalcon]

Finished Ender's Shadow a few days ago. I forgot how coldly wicked Achilles was. As if it wasn't clear enough, Card gave LDS readers (of which I wasn't one last time I read this book) an additional insight into Achilles' literally diabolical goals and strategies when he puts noticeable phrases closely associated with Satan in the unique LDS scriptural tradition directly into Achilles' mouth (or thought, as it were).

I will next be shooting through A War of Gifts (a first time) as sort of an intermission before I leap into Shadow of the Hegemon. Knowing the premise of A War of Gifts if not the details, I found the 2 or 3 references to Sinterklaas in Ender's Shadow amusing.

I don't remember much about SotH at all. In fact, I only remember a few brief things:

1. Bean meeting Ender's parents in Greensboro. I remember this, because Ami and I discussed the 'wrong' version of this from the digital ARC before she sent in the correction to Scott. The correction which, by oversight, didn't make it into the hardcover edition.

2. Carlotta dies.
3. Peter gets parents approval.

I remember both of those, because I recently re-read a letter I had written to OSC as a pre-reader (which he replied to), pointing out my initial emotional reactions to both of those events.

That's it. So in many ways, I'll be going into this happily blind. I'll get to read the story anew again, much like I just did with Ender's Shadow. I'm actually quite looking forward to it.

But first... A War of Gifts.

[Taalcon]

A WAR OF GIFTS

This was a very quick read. I mean, it was a single-serving short story.

I always find it interesting when Card writes about dangerous religious fanatics - mainly because he always places in their mouth explanations of things I gather are his genuine beliefs, but then he goes beyond with additional tenets, and gives them horrific twists. Its a sign that he recognizes that all it takes is a slight course correction from something that viewed as useful, good and pure, and be made into justification for something almost universally understood as horrific and dangerous. (I'm reminded of the Reverend who serves the Unmaker in the Alvin Maker books).

I also found the not-very-veiled assault on the absurdity and double-standard of both sides of vocal participants in the whole 'War on Christmas' cultural debacle amusing, if not heavy-handed.

Heavy-handedness of that issue aside, I do think the story served as fulfilling a bit of a void in the Battle School Years Stories (ES, ES), as showing the way practical issues of cultural and religious observance were handled. And knowing a little about the events of the novels that are coming, with the attempts to re-establish the Caliphate, I think it's actually quite a good thematic prologue. But definitely to be read after Ender's Shadow, as some minor elements introduced there are expanded upon (such as certain aspects of Dink's role).

It reads like a 'deleted storyline', that I've seen in some DVDs, where an entire story is removed from a cut of a film. The Peter/Mother stocking scene seemed particularly superfluous, serving only to show that yes, this was a tradition Ender's family did back home. And to show how to Ender's family, there really was a mourning-as-if-dead process going on. Both of which would have been more effective in a longer-form story than in this 'deleted scenes' story.

I'm glad it exists. It's not perfect, but I think it does serve a helpful thematic purpose, especially if read as an intermission between EG/ES and the rest of the Shadow cycle.

[Ela]

Heh.

I'm most of the way through Ender's Shadow now. It's interesting to read this from understanding Bean really as a savant. I have never met any true savants, but I have known individuals with different degrees of autism. Individuals who have been very logical and goal oriented based on the way their mind worked, but found many emotional responses not based on pure logic and detail incredibly hard to comprehend.

As intelligent as Bean is, I found it fascinating that in seeing through his eyes, I was seeing it through a very unreliable narrator. Bean has no comprehension of how others normally develop. Therefore, anyone who is his age - or older - who doesn't understand things the way he does must be an idiot. There was no real other point of reference. They had access to the same info he did, so why didn't they come to the same conclusion he did?

When Bean is slamming Ender, he's doing it based on his own, well, 'wiring'. He's taken emotion out of the picture - a key element in Ender's reasoning, drive, and methodology. Many times when Bean is pointing out faults in Ender, they aren't really faults. They're just a different way of doing things than Bean would. Which, in his mind, equaled 'stupid'.

Really enjoying this re-read-through. There are ao many details and nuances that I had either forgotten, or at the time of initial reading didn't have the experiences I have had since to notice and appreciate them.

You have summed up pretty well what bugged me about Bean the first time I read Ender's Shadow. But I was reading from a much different perspective than you were, in terms of the age I was when the book came out and my own life experience (was a mother of two pre-adolescent kids).

***

Locke, I have to say that I have never found Ender's combination of brilliance and empathy unrealistic, just based on some very brilliant individuals I have encountered throughout my life.

[Taalcon]

SHADOW OF THE HEGEMON

I'm half-way through Shadow of the Hegemon. And I'm quite enjoying it. I love that I've forgotten most of the details, or how things I do remember specifically come together.

So far, I think one of the most poignant exchanges is when Carlotta tells Bean that if he dies now, he'll probably go to hell, but due to his amorality rather than a lack of belief in doctrine. Her expression of hope for him that as he continues to live, he'll continue on the progression and path she's already seen him begin to take.

Carlotta's unselfish love for Bean's soul, and the sacrifices she's willing to make to help him find true salvation because of it, which downright baffles Bean (a Randian anti-altruist of sorts?).

It's kind of fascinating seeing Bean's 'conversion', so to speak, and his inward struggle against the irrationality of love. Being able to translate his raw mechanical survivalist perfectionism into something more.

On a more personal nostalgiac note, I'm reminded again of when I first read the book - a printout of an emailed copy sent to the original PWEB staff by OSC. I begin to remember more the circumstances around the launch of PWEB, the jeesh.html dragon-image-puzzle inspired by Petra's dragon, etc. That was the only time I had read the book - in that raw form (and, of course, I made sure and read the revised section in the paperback around Bean's visit to Greensboro). I appreciate the distance of time which allows me to approach the story separate from the rush and fun of those experiences.

I didn't think time and separation from these things would be too kind... but I still really enjoy following the characters, and seeing them grow and develop, and change.

For the first time in years, I'm excited again to read new Ender novels that I haven't read before (very soon, with Shadow of the Giant, Ender in Exile, and Shadows in Flight).

I don't think I could have jumped into them with any amount of enthusiasm without having gone through this re-reading experience.

[Taalcon]

Finished Shadow of the Hegemon.

Its interesting to begin to see this as the story of Bean becoming aware of his need for others in a capacity more than simply utility. It's a deeply tragic story. Bean is a savior of the world, but he couldn't care less about that. He has no emotional connection to the world.

Poke's death was an initial pea in Bean's mattress disturbing his sleep. Carlotta's death was a loud wakeup call. The proposition of Petra dying was what propelled him out of bed.

In many ways, its clear that Ender's Shadow and Shadow of the Hegemon were intended originally to be a single book - they do tell one story, the story of how Bean becomes A Real Boy, and not just a machine - or a puppet driven by the capacities of his genetic code. This realization makes it all the more significant to me that the next book is now called Shadow Puppets. Bean has just now recognized his own strings holding him down, and he will try to do what he can to untangle himself, and even snip them, and become a true Person.

I'm fascinated with this aspect of Bean's story, and will be interested in seeing how it plays out.

[Taalcon]

First Meetings: The Polish Boy

My favorite thing about The Godfather: Part 2 is its story structure - how it goes back and forth between the present and the past, two different generations, each part of the story contributing to a greater understanding of the characters and their world. I understand there's a Chronological Cut of the Godfather saga out there, but I'm not interested in that. I love the way it flashes back and forth.

That being said, I love in-between reading Ender Novels reading a short story from the chronological past which sheds some light on some information we just learned, and bringing us 'up to date', adding greater significance.

For this reason, after Shadow of the Hegemon's revelation of the Genius and struggles of Ender and Peter's parents, this is a perfect time to read their stories in The Polish Boy and Teacher's Pest. It also gives some further background on the history of the IF, Warsaw Pact, and world situations and sanctions. And the circumstances in which Peter, specifically, grew up, and was being prepared in his own way. We see a young Graff and Chamrajnagar.

It was a quick read, and added some significant depth to the story. I definitely would not suggest anyone read this before Shadow of the Hegemon, but it fits in very, very nicely to be read directly afterward.

IGMS: Ender's Stocking

Ender's Stocking is an IGMS short story which expands the Peter material in A War of Gifts. While the Peter material seemed quite tacked on and not part of the full story in A War of Gifts, it stands alone very well as a side story, and gives some significant background to Peter, and some perspective on some the things we see as Valentine percieved them in one particular way in Ender's Game. I think I would suggest this be read right along with A War of Gifts, following Ender's Shadow, and leading up to Shadow of the Hegemon. It gives some new nuances to Peter's character somewhat preparatory to how you meet him there, without spoiling anything about him, or his parents.

UPDATE ON CURRENT SUGGESTED READING ORDER, with notes about my current read through.
Ender's Game - completed
Ender's Shadow - completed
War of Gifts + "Ender's Stocking" - completed FIRST TIME READS
Shadow of the Hegemon - completed
"The Polish Boy" - completed
"Teacher's Pest"
Shadow Puppets
Shadow of the Giant (First time read)
Ender in Exile (First time read)
"Investment Counselor"
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind

[Taalcon]

Shadow Puppets

This was, in my opinion, the weakest of the books so far. While I enjoyed the Virlomi and Peter/Wiggin Family story threads, I was put off by much of the pontificating over war strategy, and found myself skimming through the majority of it, especially when it went on for pages.

Initially, Bean's willingness and quick turnaround to have babies seemed far more resigned to getting Petra to stop bugging him than something he truly wanted. Very much like hormonal pubescent confusion. He still seemed incredibly emotionally and intellectually detached - which seems how he would be. Although I'm sure it wasn't the impression intended, Bean seemed to be getting dragged along and manipulated by Petra.

And then, I rethought that perspective. Perhaps he is, but he's willing to now go with her gut, because he does love her deep down. Love and completely trust. Perhaps his choice to do things for her even though they seem illogical to him is a sign of his complete trust of her - just like he has established that he trusts his gut instinct when something feels off, even if he doesn't have a reason for it yet. It appears now, he's turning over some of the power he gives his instinct over to Petra as well. For Bean, that's perhaps the biggest show of love one can expect from him. Perhaps even more so.

Bean has allowed himself to become a puppet, and has handed over some of the strings willingly to Petra. Because he trusts what she will do with them.

Really enjoy the Wiggin Parents banter, and interactions with Peter. I enjoyed having read Teacher's Pest beforehand, to see the genesis of the Theresa/John Paul banter, and see its logical follow through a couple decades down the road.

And now, for something lighter, my summary of the book, Book-a-minute style:

Virlomi: "Let's build WALLS out of STONES and piss off CHINA."
India builds WALLS and CHINA is PISSED.

Petra: "Lets get MARRIED and have BABIES."
Bean: "No".
Anton: "I'm GAY, but I'm still going to get MARRIED and have BABIES."
Bean: "Okay. Petra, let's get MARRIED and have BABIES."
Petra and Bean get MARRIED and have BABIES.

Theresa and John Paul Wiggin: "Peter, stop being a stupid BABY."
Peter WHINES, but then stops acting like a stupid BABY.
Theresa and John Paul Wiggin: "Let's get it on in the Launchie barracks."
They DO.

Han Tzu: "Don't let people think I'm working with PETER, or CHINA will KILL me."
Alai: "I'm the CALIPH. Salaam."
Petra: *Barfs*
Virlomi: "I'm a GOD and I KILL CHINESE. For PEACE."
Achilles: "Bean will never be able to be irrational like a HUMAN, so I WIN. Plus, I hid your BABIES."
Bean acts like a HUMAN and Achilles is WRONG and DIES.
Bean: "Lets go find our BABIES"

[UnnDunn]

Shadow Puppets
Initially, Bean's willingness and quick turnaround to have babies seemed far more resigned to getting Petra to stop bugging him than something he truly wanted. Very much like hormonal pubescent confusion. He still seemed incredibly emotionally and intellectually detached - which seems how he would be. Although I'm sure it wasn't the impression intended, Bean seemed to be getting dragged along and manipulated by Petra.

And then, I rethought that perspective. Perhaps he is, but he's willing to now go with her gut, because he does love her deep down. Love and completely trust. Perhaps his choice to do things for her even though they seem illogical to him is a sign of his complete trust of her - just like he has established that he trusts his gut instinct when something feels off, even if he doesn't have a reason for it yet. It appears now, he's turning over some of the power he gives his instinct over to Petra as well. For Bean, that's perhaps the biggest show of love one can expect from him. Perhaps even more so.

Bean has allowed himself to become a puppet, and has handed over some of the strings willingly to Petra. Because he trusts what she will do with them.

I think this aspect of Bean's character was established well before this point. He is super smart, capable and confident, but he is not ambitious. He has no desire for power; he just wants to survive and he's perfectly willing--if not eager--to give himself over to someone that he trusts to help him do that.

I mean, can you think of a single time in Bean's life where he wasn't someone else's puppet, to some extent? First he was in Poke's crew, then Achille's family, then he served both Graff and Ender in Battle School. After the invasion, he worked under Suriyawong, then under Peter. Over and over again, he made the conscious, willing decision to become part of someone else's plan, even when his instincts told him (correctly) that the plan was wrong.

I think the key difference is that Carlotta and Petra actually loved Bean, whereas most others simply used him. Including Ender.

[Taalcon]

I think the difference is that the reason has nothing to do with his survival - he turns the keys over to Petra, because the result is giving her what she wants, rather than his own survival. As of this point, Bean has no ambitions for his own survival. He has no hope for himself. He sees the end of his life coming very soon. He will die soon, and that's a fact. His goal and reasoning has appeared to have changed from Survival, to Petra's perpetual happiness.

He went in to confront Achilles knowing there was a very good chance he wouldn't walk out alive. But at this point, there were two options:

* Bean dies, and Petra has a happy future.
* Bean dies, and Petra has a miserable future.

He figured doing nothing would result in #2 anyway, so he might as well take a leap for the option of #1. If that failed, then #2 was the default.

[UnnDunn]

Oh absolutely, he let her take control because he loved her and wanted her to be happy, not for his own survival. My only point is that she loved him first. And that Bean always had a submissive personality.

[Taalcon]

Read Cheater: A Han Tzu Story. I thought it was a nice intermission before beginning Shadow of the Giant, especially since SotG begins with a scene featuring Han Tzu! Very simple straight ahead story.

I've finally begun Shadow of the Giant for the first time. So far, I'm enjoying it. More bulletins as events warrant!

UPDATE ON CURRENT SUGGESTED READING ORDER, with notes about my current read through.
Ender's Game - completed
"Pretty Boy": (Bonzo Madrid) - completed - FIRST TIME READ
Ender's Shadow - completed
War of Gifts + "Ender's Stocking" - completed FIRST TIME READS
Shadow of the Hegemon - completed
"The Polish Boy: (John Paul Wieczorek)" - completed
"Teacher's Pest: (John Paul Wiggin & Theresa Brown)" - completed
Shadow Puppets - completed
"Cheater" (Han Tzu) - completed FIRST TIME READ
Shadow of the Giant - FIRST TIME READ - In Progress
Ender in Exile - FIRST TIME READ
"Investment Counselor"
Shadows in Flight - FIRST TIME READ
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind

[Kill Devil Hill]

Enjoy. That's the best Shadow book.

[Taalcon]

Finished Shadow of the Giant

And I agree - I think, perhaps, I enjoyed this one just as much if not more than Shadow of the Hegemon. And it was fun to finally at least have an idea of what it may have been that led to me being thanked in the acknowledgments *grin*

Petra's separation was devastating. The scene where Bean has his divorce presented, and onwards, was truly wrenching. It was classic Card moral dilemma, where there is no good or easy answer, just a choice between two really bad options.

I think some of this was far more wrenching for me now than if I had read it when I first got my copy when it came out about 5 or 6 years ago. Since then, I've married, had a child, went through a miscarriage which led to my wife being diagnosed with a rare form of uterine cancer, which led a hysterectomy in the only viable attempt to kill off that cancer and save her life. While the end result of that appears to be successful, I have actually had to contemplate the possibility of my wife dying, and leaving me alone with my young daughter. I contemplated - only briefly - what it would be like to my child growing up without a memory of her mother. I didn't allow myself to think of that much, because the few times I did, it felt like my very soul was being ripped out.

So I both hated Bean when Petra did, and also knew that his solution was the only loving way to possibly provide a future for all of the children. Bean was right, and I hated that his solution really was the right one.

I enjoyed seeing Petra and Peter end up together. I enjoyed the happiness that they were able to have. I loved Peter's joyous Grandparent assertion that people applauded when his grandchildren were out for a walk (as an uber-proud papa, I tend to feel that the same thing happens when my daughter is taken out in public).

Shadow Puppets was in all ways a middle book. Shadow of the Giant was where the story needed to go, and I was very pleased with the result. While I didn't always buy the swift political machinations, I did buy the emotion reality behind the story. That has always, in my opinion, been Card's strong point. That, and the fun sardonic whit a majority of the characters he actually likes tend to have.

I appreciated the revelation that Mazer Rackham did, indeed, have to leave family behind. And with this knowledge obtained here, I feel safe now going ahead and reading the story 'Mazer In Prison', before jumping into Ender in Exile.

Not too long, and I'll be heading into Shadows in Flight, and be up to date on the EnderVerse in the first time in, well, 6 years!

UPDATE ON CURRENT SUGGESTED READING ORDER, with notes about my current read through.
Ender's Game - completed
IGMS: "Pretty Boy": (Bonzo Madrid) - FIRST TIME READ - completed
Ender's Shadow - completed
War of Gifts + IGMS: "Ender's Stocking" - FIRST TIME READS - completed
Shadow of the Hegemon - completed
First Meetings: "The Polish Boy: (John Paul Wieczorek)" - completed
First Meetings: "Teacher's Pest: (John Paul Wiggin & Theresa Brown)" - completed
Shadow Puppets - completed
IGMS: "Cheater" (Han Tzu) - FIRST TIME READ - completed
Shadow of the Giant - FIRST TIME READ - completed
IGMS: "Mazer in Prison" - FIRST TIME READ
Ender in Exile - FIRST TIME READ
"Investment Counselor"
Shadows in Flight - FIRST TIME READ
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind

[Taalcon]

Like 30% into Ender in Exile. Enjoying the fleshing out of this part of the story. Definitely understand why OSC wanted to expand and explore this time period. It's the very definition of RetCon, but I'm definitely glad I not only read the full Shadow Series (through Giant) , but also War of Gifts, and the Short Stories. You're definitely rewarded in this book for having read them before hand. And certain aspects of the Shadow series would definitely be spoiled if this were read as a direct sequel to EG without having read them first.

[Kill Devil Hill]

Ender in Exile gets a bad rep, but it's actually a really cool book, especially coming off the Shadow series because you realize how much you missed Ender. And I liked the storylines on Shakespeare. I really enjoyed the book. :p But I'm a minority opinion.

The retcon is really annoying, though.

[Taalcon]

I'm fine with the RetCon. I'm with OSC, in that he shouldn't feel the need to be holden to off the cuff details he wrote in 1985 that didn't effect the core of the original story. I think things like Stephen King did with issuing a revised and updated edition of his first Dark Tower novel are a perfectly fine thing for authors writing expanded worlds over decades to do.

Card has said he's no longer interested in just putting out the Revised Chapter 15 of EG like he said at the end of ender in Exile, but rather release an updated edition of the entire book incorporating several minor details and fixing some of the contradictions (his 'better ideas', as he put it) that came out in his later stories.

I don't think for a second it will change the main story or memorable dialogue or feel of the characters in EG, just tidy it up a bit for us. It's not like we'll be seeing Greedo shoot first The Ender Companion notes that references to the early Colony in the SftD series would be changed to Shakespeare in later printings/editions.

I think that would be a perfect thing for them to do right before publishing Shadows Alive - re-release the original Ender novels in nice new updated hardcover editions (again, just like King did with his Dark Tower novels).

[UnnDunn]

I'm fine with the RetCon. I'm with OSC, in that he shouldn't feel the need to be holden to off the cuff details he wrote in 1985 that didn't effect the core of the original story. I think things like Stephen King did with issuing a revised and updated edition of his first Dark Tower novel are a perfectly fine thing for authors writing expanded worlds over decades to do.

Card has said he's no longer interested in just putting out the Revised Chapter 15 of EG like he said at the end of ender in Exile, but rather release an updated edition of the entire book incorporating several minor details and fixing some of the contradictions (his 'better ideas', as he put it) that came out in his later stories.

I don't think for a second it will change the main story or memorable dialogue or feel of the characters in EG, just tidy it up a bit for us. It's not like we'll be seeing Greedo shoot first The Ender Companion notes that references to the early Colony in the SftD series would be changed to Shakespeare in later printings/editions.

I think that would be a perfect thing for them to do right before publishing Shadows Alive - re-release the original Ender novels in nice new updated hardcover editions (again, just like King did with his Dark Tower novels).

I don't even think of EG Ch. 15 as canon anymore. It just doesn't appear in my mental Enderverse timeline; it has been wholly replaced by Ender in Exile. As illustrated by the giant fight we had a few weeks ago.

These days, I read EG Ch. 15 the same way I read the original EG short story: it's a nice read, but it is of no canonical consequence.

[Taalcon]

50% of the way through.

I can't recommend anybody reading this who hasn't yet read the Shadow Series, or at least plans to. As much as it's a direct sequel to Ender's Game, it is a direct sequel to Shadow of the Giant. SotG, like EG, ends the 'present day' storyline, then jumps ahead to the future, to end where EG ends. eiE begins where shadow of the Hegemon begins, and goes through the full time of the Shadow series, going beyond the 'present day' ending of Shadow of the Giant, and continuing it. Ender in Exile is like the capstone of this phase of the story.



I know it's gotten a lot of flack, but I'm enjoying it. A lot, actually.

[ROFLRICK]

Considering some of the revelations presented in Shadows In Flight, I'm very curious as to how Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind will read.

I recently purchased hardcover versions of First Meetings and A War of Gifts and am currently amassing the other books in hardcover as well. In preparation for Shadows In Flight, I read Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, and Shadow of the Giant finally and loved them.

Very interested in your thoughts as you share them!

[Taalcon]

Just finished Ender in Exile and Investment Counselor. The two go together very nicely. (In fact, when the Capital of the Italian Sorreledolce was mentioned as DonnaBella, I wondered if it could be retrofitted as DoraBella, and have been a colony founded by Captain Quincy and his Fairy Wife

I enjoy seeing the progression of Ender's speaking skills at work the way he deals with both Allesandra and Achilles/Arkanian - showing them why they became who they are, and why they do what they do, and opening their minds up to further potential. The only difference between this and a speaking is that it is done in a way that allows them to change based on the speaking, seeing as they are still alive!

I appreciated the closure to Graff's life, and to a degree, Petra's. Although I'm not sure I felt I needed these things before hand, at this point, it makes the story that much more filling.

I also enjoyed seeing the origin of the Ender the Xenocide label, and where it originated. I also find it of interest that in the Speaker Books, I recall Ganges being mentioned as the colony where the first concepts of Philotic thinking were expressed and played with. Wonder if Arkanian had anything to with that before he died.

While quite an episodic book, there definitely is an overall theme of progression that I think comes to an appropriate conclusion and continuation. Perhaps it's because I've been imersing myself in the story chronologically and thematically, but I don't really feel the hate I've seen so many give to it. It's not a stand-alone masterpiece like Ender or Speaker, but it is a poignant bridge.

[Taalcon]

I've since finished Shadows in Flight, which I won't discuss here because of the NEW factor. In short, I enjoyed it, and it not only sets up some exciting things, but possibly reframes some of the material in the Speaker Trilogy.

And with that, I've re-read Speaker for the Dead, and am now in the middle of Xenocide.

I still love these books. I love seeing who Ender has become. I love the Ribeira family. I love all the different dynamics going on, and I love the fascinating exploration of piggy life, the exploration of Philotics (what I named this site after to begin with!), and the deep moral dilemma.

As much as it might frustrate Scott to hear this, decades later, I find this material to be his best, most solid work - at least that I've read.

Reading this made me want to bad to see a fully realized version of this on the screen. There's high drama, high emotion. High mystery and drama! Right now, I'm at the part in Xenocide where Father Estevao was martyred. The sequence leading up that, and what follows, gives me chills.

I'd love if they worked on a Shadow Series and Speaker series simultaneously. Although I would think the chances of that would be slim, there wouldn't be much overlap in actors at all, until Children of the Mind. And then how much fun would it be to have Abigail Breslin return to play NuVal?

I know many hate Novinha. I know many hate Quing-jao. I don't think we're supposed to get all cuddly with them. they are frustrating, even enraging personalities. But they make sense as of who they are.

I love reading this, because while I remember much of the feelings, there's so much detail I had completely forgotten. I find it fascinating readin gthis after having gone through the Shadow Series, and Ender in Exile... and even Shadow in Flight. The world and story seems to really be building to this.

Really enjoying it. I'm so glad I've come back to re-read these.

[UnnDunn]

I completely agree with you regarding the Speaker series. I found myself enjoying it so much more than the Shadow series, and I'm more anxious to see what happens to Peter and Young Val than I am to see what happens to the Leguminotes.