Question on Xenocide

Discuss all things pertaining to the EnderVerse milieu.
Lauro's Eyes
Launchie
Launchie
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:18 am

Question on Xenocide

Postby Lauro's Eyes » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:27 am

Hello there, been a long time fan of Ender's game, but am just now getting around to reading the rest of the series. Finished up Xenocide the other day and have a question about something. I would go back and reread the part, but I had to give it back to the person I borrowed it from.

So, did the people of Path still believe in the Gods after Han Fei Tzu and Si Wang Mu infected them with the corrective virus, and they believed the virus was the Gods' way of rewarding them for their servitude to be free of the need to purify? Or did Jane, Fei Tzu, and Wang Mu tell them that it was all fake, a genetic mutation that Congress put in them?

Cheers!

User avatar
Luet
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4460
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:49 pm
Title: Bird Nerd
First Joined: 01 Jul 2000
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby Luet » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:08 pm

You know, I'm not sure and currently all my books are packed up because I'm in the middle of a move. But if no one else comes along to answer, I'll try to remember to look it up soon.
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer." - Albert Camus in Return to Tipasa

User avatar
Petra
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:20 pm
First Joined: 0- 8-2000
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby Petra » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:48 pm

From what I remember, most of Path accepted that it was a virus and they were cured. Qing-jao, however, insisted she was still godspoken and continued following her lines even though the compulsion was no long there.
"I seem to remember that when I was younger, overly sugared brats were sent down into the basement to fend for themselves, like Lord of the Flies."

Lauro's Eyes
Launchie
Launchie
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:18 am

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby Lauro's Eyes » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:50 pm

From what I remember, most of Path accepted that it was a virus and they were cured. Qing-jao, however, insisted she was still godspoken and continued following her lines even though the compulsion was no long there.
Ok, because I thought I remember the book mentioning that the people of Path believed that the gods still existed, they just sent the cure to reward them for their loyalty. Maybe I misread something.

Thanks for the answer!

UnnDunn
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 9:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby UnnDunn » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:11 pm

That was the official story, to keep the people in check while the plague swept the planet. And when Jane left the note explaining the DNA alteration and the effects of the virus, the note was attributed to the Gods (but they accepted the explanation anyway.)

But soon after that, the idea of the Gods started falling into the status of myth. Just like ghosts or pixies or leprechauns. Everyone knew about and acknowledged the idea and perpetuated it, but they stopped truly believing in it. Except for Qing Jao.
Last edited by UnnDunn on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lauro's Eyes
Launchie
Launchie
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:18 am

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby Lauro's Eyes » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:28 am

Ah, ok, that's what I was looking for. Thanks a bunch, to all of you!

EAGLE
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 348
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Sac Town
Contact:

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby EAGLE » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:45 am

Been a while since i read it...like 5-6yrs but didn't she deny the truth that June gave and instead insisted the gods where still around? Hence devoting herself to the lines.

And unforntunately my book are also packed away some where. I'm gana try to reread them soon but i haveto catch up big time on the newer stuff
Pweb member since 2002

"Remember kids...A smart man knows when...to run like a little bi**h"
-Desert Punk

User avatar
thoughtreader
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 791
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:00 pm
Title: will wrestle you to the ground
First Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: Portland OR
Contact:

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby thoughtreader » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:00 am

I remember it being similar to that, She refused to believe what Jane said (the truth). And thus continued to trace the lines hoping the gods would speak to her again. But they never did, she became a symbol of divitions and was named the god of path after her death.... something like that.

As for the people of path they still believed in the gods, but stopped believing the OCD was the voice of the gods speaking, while she continued to believe and do anything to hear them again

EAGLE
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 348
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Sac Town
Contact:

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby EAGLE » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:57 am

I remember it being similar to that, She refused to believe what Jane said (the truth). And thus continued to trace the lines hoping the gods would speak to her again. But they never did, she became a symbol of divitions and was named the god of path after her death.... something like that.
Thought so thanks and darn you auto correct iphone!

*Jane not June bad phone!!
Pweb member since 2002

"Remember kids...A smart man knows when...to run like a little bi**h"
-Desert Punk

User avatar
Tiny genius
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:59 am
Location: Starship Herodotus

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby Tiny genius » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:38 pm

Eh. The people of Path accepted it as a virus but when Qing-jao showed such devotion their belief in the gods was aroused and re-established.
"Other universes may exist, but ours seems to be based on war and games" - William S. Burroughs

darth_ender
Launchie
Launchie
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 8:17 am

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby darth_ender » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:25 pm

I'm don't want to have to start a new topic, so I plan to hijack this thread instead. I'm partway through Xenocide for the first time in more than 10 years, and several thoughts occur to me. It seems to me that while Xenocide has many interesting aspects in it, including a massive moral dilemma of exterminating one entire sentient or another depending on one's efforts: humans, piggies, buggers, Jane, descolada, they're all under attack, and the only way to stop one happens to guarantee the death of another. I like many of the characters, particularly those on Path, but I'm finding several things to complain about that I never picked up on my last time reading this. For instance, the horrible Ribierra , who appear to be broken in spite of years of Ender's influence. Grego's an impulsive and destructive bigot, Quara's an impulsive blabbermouth who would rather risk up to three guaranteed sentient species in exchanged for the preservation of a potentially sentient species of varelse, Novinha is still as hardhearted as to risk her own world and those she loves in order to preserve her pride by closing off access to important records and shutting herself away from everyone including her husband for things that were clearly outside his control, Ender seems weak...I'm just becoming irritated. Valentine and Miro are the best humans on Lusitania. I feel like Ender's efforts have been wasted on such a petulant woman, who still remains as closed off and self-absorbed as ever, in spite of her seeming recovery at the end of Speaker for the Dead.

Anyway, last time I read this, I loved it, now I'm finding it problematic in terms of both character direction and logic. But the reason I started writing this comment in the first place is because of Jane. I think she's a fascinating character...so why is she such an idiot? Her efforts to block the Lusitania fleet drew attention to herself: why did she not simply alter communication between the fleet and Starways Congress? She's demonstrated her ability to replicate faces, why not formulate her own messages and keep up a charade that would ultimately lead to a different end (she could send the fleet elsewhere while simultaneously leading Congress to believe the planet was destroyed, and they wouldn't know for years and years about anything different). She need not block all communication, perhaps simply intercepting appropriate messages. As a complex piece of software, she could alter the course of the vessels and lead everyone to believe there were saboteurs on board. And when it comes to Path, the moral dilemma ended up being that she could not cut off their ansible without the possibility of their being annihilated as well. But she doesn't have to block all communication. She is capable of reading and interpreting any data that gets off the planet, of monitoring all messages from anyone, of altering them if need be. She could have simply intercepted any message Qing-Jao sent or any attempt to utilize a cohort for that same end. If nothing else, she could have bought herself more time.

I'm not sure if I'm being clear, but it seems Jane underutilized and misused her powers and now faces the prospect of death. She should have been smarter than this, and then many of these dilemmas would not have cropped up.

User avatar
Tiny genius
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:59 am
Location: Starship Herodotus

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby Tiny genius » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:24 pm

I had some of the same thoughts about messing with fleet messages and only intercepting Qing-jao's messages but I'm at as much of a loss to explain them.
"Other universes may exist, but ours seems to be based on war and games" - William S. Burroughs

UnnDunn
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 9:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby UnnDunn » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:16 pm

I'm don't want to have to start a new topic, so I plan to hijack this thread instead. I'm partway through Xenocide for the first time in more than 10 years, and several thoughts occur to me. It seems to me that while Xenocide has many interesting aspects in it, including a massive moral dilemma of exterminating one entire sentient or another depending on one's efforts: humans, piggies, buggers, Jane, descolada, they're all under attack, and the only way to stop one happens to guarantee the death of another. I like many of the characters, particularly those on Path, but I'm finding several things to complain about that I never picked up on my last time reading this. For instance, the horrible Ribierra , who appear to be broken in spite of years of Ender's influence. Grego's an impulsive and destructive bigot, Quara's an impulsive blabbermouth who would rather risk up to three guaranteed sentient species in exchanged for the preservation of a potentially sentient species of varelse, Novinha is still as hardhearted as to risk her own world and those she loves in order to preserve her pride by closing off access to important records and shutting herself away from everyone including her husband for things that were clearly outside his control, Ender seems weak...I'm just becoming irritated. Valentine and Miro are the best humans on Lusitania. I feel like Ender's efforts have been wasted on such a petulant woman, who still remains as closed off and self-absorbed as ever, in spite of her seeming recovery at the end of Speaker for the Dead.

Anyway, last time I read this, I loved it, now I'm finding it problematic in terms of both character direction and logic. But the reason I started writing this comment in the first place is because of Jane. I think she's a fascinating character...so why is she such an idiot? Her efforts to block the Lusitania fleet drew attention to herself: why did she not simply alter communication between the fleet and Starways Congress? She's demonstrated her ability to replicate faces, why not formulate her own messages and keep up a charade that would ultimately lead to a different end (she could send the fleet elsewhere while simultaneously leading Congress to believe the planet was destroyed, and they wouldn't know for years and years about anything different). She need not block all communication, perhaps simply intercepting appropriate messages. As a complex piece of software, she could alter the course of the vessels and lead everyone to believe there were saboteurs on board. And when it comes to Path, the moral dilemma ended up being that she could not cut off their ansible without the possibility of their being annihilated as well. But she doesn't have to block all communication. She is capable of reading and interpreting any data that gets off the planet, of monitoring all messages from anyone, of altering them if need be. She could have simply intercepted any message Qing-Jao sent or any attempt to utilize a cohort for that same end. If nothing else, she could have bought herself more time.

I'm not sure if I'm being clear, but it seems Jane underutilized and misused her powers and now faces the prospect of death. She should have been smarter than this, and then many of these dilemmas would not have cropped up.
This is explained when Jane consults with Valentine as she is traveling to Lusitania...
The trouble was that she couldn’t do it without Congress realizing that she existed—or at least that something was wrong. If the fleet didn’t confirm the order, it would simply be sent again, and again, and again. The more she blocked the messages, the clearer it would be to Congress that someone had an impossible degree of control over the ansible computers. She might avoid this by sending a counterfeit confirmation, but then she would have to monitor all the communications between the ships of the fleet, and between the fleet and all planetside stations, in order to keep up the pretense that the fleet knew something about the kill order. Despite Jane’s enormous abilities, this would soon be beyond her—she could pay some degree of attention to hundreds, even thousands of things at a time, but it didn’t take Miro long to realize that there was no way she could handle all the monitoring and alterations this would take, even if she did nothing else. One way or another, the secret would be out.

Card, Orson Scott (2010-04-01). Xenocide: Volume Three of the Ender Quintet (Kindle Locations 1145-1153). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

darth_ender
Launchie
Launchie
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 8:17 am

Re: Question on Xenocide

Postby darth_ender » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:27 pm

As I'd said when I wrote that comment, I hadn't completed the book. Nevertheless, I do not buy that explanation, given Jane's immense processing powers. I mean, she can conceive of a spaceship down to it's subatomic particles to push it Outside! But to keep things simpler, she could have merely sent the Lusitania fleet on a wild goose chase or destroyed their vessels, meanwhile sending a false signal to the Starways Congress that there had been a mutiny. I enjoyed the book, but I do think this was something of a plot hole.


Return to “EnderVerse Novels and Stories”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests