Philotic Web

In the Acknowledgements of Shadow Puppets it is mentioned that there is a "timeline combining the story flows of Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow on The Philotic Web. Where is it located?

It's... misplaced. Let's see here. Nope, can't even find it on the Wayback Machine.

Let me assure you that it did exist at one point. The closest thing we currently have (and is probably actually more accurate) was posted elsewhere on the forum, where we're discussing what things to put when we remake the site sometime in the future. Here it is again:



This was borrowed from Wikipedia Commons, apparently.

Welcome to the forum, by the way! Mostly because we've all talked about Ender's Game to there and back, we tend to congregate in the Milagre Town Square section, where general discussion is approved. We do ocassionally whip out our ol' copies of EG, though, and have a bit of a verbal tussle.

Thank you both for your swift replies and helpful information. I'll be sure to mind my p's and q's if I post anything in the future. I must admit, I am worthy of my assigned title of "launchie" seeing as how I'm only in the middle of Shadow of the Giant. This is all a bit new to me but maybe I'll figure it out.

Thought I'd add this, as it helps show the flow and relationship between Ender's Game, the Shadow Series, and Ender in Exile:



As much as Ender in Exile it's an expansion/direct sequel of/to Ender's Game, it is also very much a direct sequel and followup to Shadow of the Giant.

SotG, like EG, ends the 'present day' storyline, then jumps ahead to the future, to end where EG ends. EiE begins right before Shadow of the Hegemon begins, and goes through the full time of the Shadow series, going beyond the 'present day' ending of Shadow of the Giant, and continuing it. Ender in Exile is like the capstone of this phase of the story.

Here's an expanded one that shows the relative (not to scale) chronology of all the stories and novels:

This was borrowed from Wikipedia Commons, apparently.

Forum member philoticweb made an up to date and more detailed version of the Wikipedia Commons flowchart in this thread. For consolidation and completeness sake, I include it below:

This one is helpful because it also shows which stories were translated into Comic Adaptations. Thanks philoticweb!

I don't like care for these vague timelines. I want me some hard dates.

I've figured out how to get this done: A shared Google Spreadsheet: http://goo.gl/PDEVS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm at work, so the data I've provided so far is pretty... Minimal.

Start filling in the gaps!

I think 'at a glance' timelines are helpful for general orientation as to where one is in the overall flow of things. Certainly not replacements for a detailed to the year/month/day type timeline, just serving a different, but just as useful purpose.

By the way: I would focus your attention on finding the best dates and events documented and occuring for pre-Ender's Game, and post Shadows in Flight - the areas that could potentially be the most practically useful to OSC (writing the Formic Wars novels, as well as the Adventures of the Leguminotes

ASSIGNMENT!

I just discovered a significant contradiction that OSC would want to work into a revision.

Speaker for the Dead notes that the destruction of the Formic World occurs 1180 years before the formation of Starways Congress/Code. However, during the events of Shadows in Flight (430 or so years after the end of the Formic War), there already is a Starways Congress. Same during the events of Investment Counselor. This will be the date OSC wants to keep and harmonize with, so dates would need to be adjusted.

Could we focus around finding the closest dates for establishing when this needs to have happened? This would start by establishing the year for the destruction of the Formic World. If we can get that, we can determine the year OSC originally stated SC was formed, and then work from there.

According to what OSC has said, the latest written things are more 'accurate' in terms of canon.

I've got the Formic homeworld being destroyed in 2201 CE based on Bean being seven years old at the time. I've based the dates for events SftD on that date + 1180 years to the original founding date of Starways Congress + years since that date. I think those dates should continue to use this math to maintain Ender being 3000+ years "old", regardless of what we find Starways Congress' "actual" founding date to be.

Derp. Jane says Ender is Objectively 3081 years old when he's called to Lusitania. Adding the years since Starways Congress--1948--to the years since Ender's victory until Starways Congress--1180--plus Ender's age when he was victorious--11--puts him at 3139 years old.

Side note: This process would be absolutely miserable without ebooks.

So the question is, what would be the least amount of significant changes needed to line the SC dates up with the established SiF timeline?

Well, the SftD timeline puts the formation of Starways Congress in 3381 CE. I'm choosing to interpret "400 some odd years" as a generous, "earlier than 2640 CE" as the latest Investment Counciler could have taken place. Which gives us at least a 741 year gap, likely larger.

So, either you have Ender mentioning that he's less than 2400 years old instead of 3000+, or you add 750+ to all the Starways Congress dates mentioned in the Speaker trilogy.

Either way, we haven't nailed down a "new" founding year for Starways Congress. We just know that it happens sometime between the end of Shadow of the Hedgemon and the beginning of Investment Counciler.

I don't recall it being mentioned in EiE, so perhaps we could make the assumption that it forms sometime between EiE and IC...

I started two new columns that will help us find all the relevant information that would need to be consistent - one for Ender's 'Earth Age', and one for his 'Subjective Age'. When we know what these SHOULD be (in accordance with the NEW chronology), we can then find all the places where information is referenced that would need to be adjusted.

This is cool. Great idea and initiative, Chris. Once we have this worked out, I plan on sending a message to OSC to show him, let him know who are all involved, and also invite him to put us to work on any other issues he may want figured out

Quick, if somewhat pedantic question: are we sure Starways Congress "years" are based on Earth "years"? Could that be used to explain the timeline discrepancies somehow? I think this is a question that has to be nailed down before any serious discussion over firm timelines can take place.

I would imagine Stark years would be based on the orbit of whatever planet Starways Congress' HQ is located on. Are we sure that is Earth?

Definitely Earth years. I'm giving up if it's decided otherwise.

I used this timeline to prove a point in a age of Ender discussion with a friend last night

It's interesting to look at the different speeds at which the characters move through time.

Ender and Valentine's flight from Eros to Shakespeare lasts 41 years objectively, two years subjectively. So, they're traveling at an average rate of 20.5 objective years/subjective year.

Ender | Eros - Shakespeare | 20.5 oy/sy
Bean | Earth - SiF start | 84.2 oy/sy
Ender | Shakespeare - Ganges | 15.4 oy/sy
Ender | Ganges - EiE end | 1.5 oy/sy
Ender | EiE end - Moctezuma | 96.4 oy/sy
Ender | Moctezuma - SftD | 250 oy/sy
Ender | Trondheim - Lusitania | 572 oy/sy

It's interesting to look at the different speeds at which the characters move through time.

Ender and Valentine's flight from Eros to Shakespeare lasts 41 years objectively, two years subjectively. So, they're traveling at an average rate of 20.5 objective years/subjective year.

Ender | Eros - Shakespeare | 20.5 oy/sy
Bean | Earth - SiF start | 84.2 oy/sy
Ender | Shakespeare - Ganges | 15.4 oy/sy
Ender | Ganges - EiE end | 1.5 oy/sy
Ender | EiE end - Moctezuma | 96.4 oy/sy
Ender | Moctezuma - SftD | 250 oy/sy
Ender | Trondheim - Lusitania | 572 oy/sy

In looking at that list (which is awesome, by the way, fantastic work. ) one particular thing strikes me as odd:

Ender | Ganges - EiE end | 1.5 oy/sy
Ender | EiE end - Moctezuma | 96.4 oy/sy
Ender | Moctezuma - SftD | 250 oy/sy

This is the period during which Ender and Valentine do the bulk of their planet-hopping, which means they spend lots of time on-planet, where it's 1 oy/sy. This should greatly depress those oy/sy averages. 1.5 oy/sy from Ganges through the end of EiE makes sense, but 96.4 oy/sy? 250 oy/sy? There's no way that is possible, not with all the planet hopping they did in that period.

Bah, this is why writers should generally stay the heck away from time manipulation stories.

Well, considering they would have the option to take flights in stasis, they could have spent eight years planet side between Moctezuma and Trondheim and 1992 years in flight in stasis moving as fast or as slow as they pleased.

I started a new sheet where possible date adjustments are made:
1) new dates if all dates stated POST Starways Congress formed remain the same, but with Starways Congress formation given the start date at cir. 2625 CE, rather than the old 3381 CE. Thus, all the BSC dates would change, but the POST BS dates would remain the same.

I'm working on this part of it now, but we can/should make another row if it's assumed we want to keep Ender's '3000 years' objective age as the base time reference for Speaker for the Dead. I think it's best to see all the options placed out there for Scott to see, and then to make his decision as to what he wants to do accordingly.

Well, considering they would have the option to take flights in stasis, they could have spent eight years planet side between Moctezuma and Trondheim and 1992 years in flight in stasis moving as fast or as slow as they pleased.

Oh right, I forgot about stasis. Now it makes sense.

One more question: why is Moctezuma important? Does something important happen there in one of the IGMS shorts or something? (yes/no answer is fine, no spoilers)

I've had IGMS for a while, but I haven't gotten around to reading that stuff yet.

Moctezuma is just mentioned in SftD with a date.

Going through SftD, there's a boatload of internal contradictions that need to be reconciled first before we can hope to merge the 'new chronology' with the 'old chronology'.

I added a separate sheet for noting the uncorrected internal dates/timeline as it stands in the Speaker Trilogy.

I also added a sheet where every reference to a time, date, or age was mentioned, by chapter. I'm adding to it as I read long in Speaker, etc, making a note at the bottom of the page of inconsistincies and curiosities as I come across them.

I see your date logging petered out halfway through Xenocide. Have you given up hope on how totally screwed up the internal timeline is, or are you just taking a break?

Just taking a break I'll be back on it soon, unless someone else gets there before I do

Ender is 11 for the final battle? Not 12?

I was just listening to this song Steve sent me by Ash Can Painters. The song says Ender is 12. And I was like WAIT I thought he was 11... let me check the timeline.

Cassandra...maybe nothing rhymed with "eleven"?

Of course...what rhymes with "twelve"???


BTW, one of the writers from Ash Can Painters apologized, in advance, for the phrase "Games of Buggery." When asked why he coined such a phrase, his response was, "I panicked."

Cassandra...maybe nothing rhymed with "eleven"?

Of course...what rhymes with "twelve"???


BTW, one of the writers from Ash Can Painters apologized, in advance, for the phrase "Games of Buggery." When asked why he coined such a phrase, his response was, "I panicked."

I think that phrase was OSC's one criticism of the song when he heard it

I'm pretty bummed we were beaten to the punch on this by OSC and friends. I suppose we should have expected it, what with dates actually existing in Shadows in Flight.

How do we know Ender is 11 when he defeats the formics? Where does that come from?

mother of god... That's fantastic.