What Do You Think About The "Romances" In EnderVer

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What Do You Think About The "Romances" In EnderVer

Postby spanish_rockette » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:37 pm

i think some werent so important. (aka: alai and virlomi.) or were a waste of time.
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."

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Postby neo-dragon » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:08 pm

Alai and Virlomi wasn't a romance, it was political.
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Postby spanish_rockette » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:56 pm

sorry, after i posted that i reazlized what it said.
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."

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Postby spanish_rockette » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:00 pm

well try relationships.
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."

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Postby ptr.arkanian » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:05 pm

some enderverse relationships are vital: bean and petra, ender and virlomi, wang-mu and young peter

and some are just there: valentine and jakt, captain morgan and dorabella
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Postby spanish_rockette » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:42 pm

ENDER ABD VIRLOMI?
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."

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Postby Psudo » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:46 am

I assume "Alai and Virlomi" was meant.

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Postby neo-dragon » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:41 am

Actually, I think it was supposed to be Ender and Novinha since it's listed among the significant relationships.
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Postby spanish_rockette » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:06 pm

i know its one of those 2. but i couldnt stop thinking if ender and virlomi had relationship of some sorts
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."

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Postby lennyathena » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:45 pm

-bump- :D

romances were never central to the plot, except with bean/petra's children, but i've got to admit that i'm an incorrigible romantic and i've madly perused every single romance in the series. okay, okay, i love it all, though i think ender made an odd choice in novinha.

alai and virlomi was political, and i found it really, really strange. especially... whatever happened to their marriage AFTER both went off to colony worlds? were they an estranged couple or something?

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Postby spanish_rockette » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:26 pm

So, am I. :D
I got the idea that Alai and Virlomi had gotten divorced. And I read, that Suriyawong and Virlomi had gotten married.


http://ansible.wikia.com/wiki/Suriyawong

http://ansible.wikia.com/wiki/Virlomi

But I dont believe it
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."

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Postby Jeesh_girl15 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:14 pm

And where did that person find their references? I never remember reading it that way, and i don't think that was in the authorized companion. Anywho, relationships, romancewise, were never all that crucial. Yes, they helped the story along, but they were never really central in the plot. Some, like Virlomi and Alai, Ender and Novinha, or Young Peter and Wang mu, were important in the developmet of the story. But most were not main points.
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Postby spanish_rockette » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:12 pm

I dont know, all I know is that person, does not know what the hell they are reading.
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."

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Postby MisterQwerty » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:26 am

Well, that's surprising, to say the least. I wasn't aware they got married.

Heck, OSC probably wasn't even aware they got married.

(Somebody change that before we have to burn down the wiki >.>)
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Postby spanish_rockette » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:20 pm

agreed
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."

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Postby ptr.arkanian » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:38 pm

I'm not sure if its necessarily the relationships that are important. More important is the emotional level of the characters. For example, Petra is a romantic, and that part of the story is vital. Her relationship with Bean is important, but their relationship is a result of her endless attempts to make him fall in love with her. Her romantic obsession becomes vital when Bean leaves Earth. Even though their relationship ceases to exist, Petra's devotion is what allows the legacy of Bean and Petra to live on. You can also relate this to Ender and Novinah. Naturally, Ender is fond of the forgotten underdog because he was once an underdog himself. It in his nature to care to the weak and helpless. Ender falls in love with Novinah because she needs him. Their relationship is simply a result of Ender's obsession with rescuing those who need him most.
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Postby Mitchi » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:17 pm

I found Ender and Novinha's marriage to be awkward and too abrupt. There was no real developmental lead up to it and Novinha was really quite cold to him for a while. There was only any sign that she liked him the day before they got married (putting her arm in his, letting him rest his head on her lap). In all honesty, it really seemed more like Ender was marrying her family, which makes more sense. He really was marrying Olhado more than he was marrying Novinha, which does actually happen in real life: a person will marry a single parent because they adore the kid and want to care for them.

While I have no doubt that Novinha loved Ender just as much as he loved her and her family, a little more exposition would have been nice.
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Postby spanish_rockette » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:54 pm

Yeah, I agree with that. I always wonder, when did they decide to get married?
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."

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Postby Mitchi » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:20 pm

It was almost literally a foot note. One minute they were doing the thing with the treaty, and suddenly at the end of one of the paragraphs it mentions "Oh and they got married that night."

Then I read Xenocide and almost ragequit. Hell he had more leadup with allesandra. Val and Jackt had almost a whole page dedicated to explaining their marriage and more about their relationship later on, but Ender and Novinha kinda got jack crap about them becoming romatically involved.

Maybe OSC just isn't good with romantic relationships?
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Postby spanish_rockette » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:35 am

Yeah, Val and Jakt, they arent the main characters and they have more crap explin their realtionship. and Ender and alessandra, they had like practically like half of Ender In Exile, that explained I guess thier "relationship" if you wanna call it that, since I guess Alessandra liked him for him, and Ende, well he just going trough puberty, so yeah.

and then In Xenocide, they've been married for 30 years and then she leaves him. I was thinking what the hell. They are married then I guess Novinha was jealous of Jane, then she gets pissed at him for i think supportiing the fact that Quim is going on this mission, I dont really remember. Then she leaves him and wont go back to him. Which is confusing on my level of standards.

I think OSC thought of Ender's and Novinha' marriage at the last minute or something, cause i read that part last night, and I got the idea that he just decided to put that in their marriage in there, just to put it there, and maybe give an explanation later on. Maybe in Shadows in FLight would explain thier marriage.
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Postby Mitchi » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:46 am

I sure hope it does. I'm reading xenocide and I'm getting so tired of reading about Ender being emo about Novinha. he's already practically demoted to secondary character status. Miro is least understandable with his emoness.
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Postby Locke Delphiki » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:13 pm

I think romance is one of the things Card just doesn't do very well, it's not so much romance as, "He decided he loves her." (Which I'm paraphrasing from shadow of the giant.) I never feel the romantic love.
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Postby Jeesh_girl15 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:15 pm

I would agree that of all the things in the Enderverse, the romance is what fell short for me. OSC is a great writer, but he's a bit analytic, which isn't the best quality for romance, which is a lot of emotion. (Notice I said romance, and not love. I firmly believe that love is different than romance.)
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Postby Mitchi » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:56 pm

Funny enough, I don't think he did that bad with Wang-mu and young Peter. I kinda liked a bit of it, but yeah, romance is clearly not his forte.
-Because you protected this ephemerally floating world by your own hand
Now simply fold your wings and sleep restfully
Be wrapped up in an eternal tranquility, and love through all eternity

Sleep, by this hand of mine that gently watches over you
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I will never forget for all time until my life is exhausted-

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Postby spanish_rockette » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:50 pm

I liked Young Peter and Wang-mu too. It actually made sense, unlike Ender and Novinha, you actually see their, relationship evolve, I guess.





And its better than Peter and Petra's relationship/marriage. Which I still cant get over.
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Postby Kill Devil Hill » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:22 pm

I agree that OSC did not do too well in the romantic department. The marriages are merely marriages of logic. "Well, this person will makes great babies with me, so I shall marry him/her." That's how it came across to me. Ender and Novinha made no sense. They could've been developed SO WELL, but then OSC just dedicated a sentence or two to their love. I felt nothing and just prayed he would divorce her ASAP. I did NOT want him to follow her to the Children of the Mind of Christ thing and abandon Jane. That was the last thing he should've done. She essentially treated him like crap.

Young Peter and Wang-mu were cute at the beginning, but then I felt it rushed a bit at the end. They were better than most of the other relationships, but I could've used more crescendo.

I felt Petra and Bean were also rushed together, but when they were together, I loved what OSC wrote for them. Bean's protectiveness over her as the books progressed was cute. When Bean died, I felt so awful for Petra, because I truly felt she loved him.

I may be in the minority, but I really liked Petra and Peter together. I was kind of shipping for them from the beginning. I loved Bean and Petra together, but I still secretly preferred Petra and Peter together. They weren't as rushed as the other couples either. They were pretty much set up from the beginning.

Alai and Virlomi's "relationship" or whatever that was supposed to be was pretty unnecessary. I understand that their "marriage" tied the book together in places (Alai's insistence on sex after marriage, the need for India to be allied with the Muslims et al), but if that part had been left out of the entire book, it wouldn't've been missed. Very unnecessary. OSC is a smart man. There could've been other ways to unite India and the Muslims, but the very act of uniting India and the Muslims also felt like a copout and a little on the cliche side. Still, Alai and Virlomi weren't too bothersome, since they lasted less than fifty pages.

Miro and Young Val > Miro and Jane. The solution to allowing Jane to survive was COMPLETELY messed up. Another reason I didn't like Children of the Mind.

I liked Valentine and Jakt. Jakt actually had a personality, and I would've loved for him to have been included in the books more prominently. Still, I thought the way Valentine and Jakt interacted was perfect.

John Paul and Theresa were great. I loved how John Paul sat outside Theresa's door and kept ordering food! It's cute moments like THAT that are lacking in the books.


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