Children & Responsibility

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simmo141
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Children & Responsibility

Postby simmo141 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:14 pm

I absolutely loved this book. It was an easy & exciting read for me. I was bothered by the ethics of this book though. I don't believe children should have to be trained for war. I didn't undertand why the adults were training children to fight instead of each other and other adults. The adults seemed to learn more from the children, which told me they were incapable of defending their world. I also disagreed with the way the children were manipulated and abused. They were isolated, not being taught how to have a relationship with anyone. Ender had to question whether or not someone was his friend. The children were also taught that not only could they not trust each other, they also couldn't trust adults or family. To not be able to trust anyone, except for yourself, would make this a sad world, one not worth fighting for.

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Postby Jeesh_girl15 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:48 pm

*trying to remember*

I think it said somewhere in the books that they used younger children because humans tend to be in the prime of their life at a young age. The IF couldn't use adults to kills the Formics, because adults wouldn't have the strength to knowingly wipe out a whole other species. Ender and he other children's ignorance allowed them to kill the Buggers completely and totally, without second thought. (at least so they thought) To them, they were just playing a game.

It's true that the kids were misused to a point. But not all the kids were isolated. Most of the kids actually did develop friendships and all that. Ender was just isolated to bring out the qualities that the IF needed in a good commander, much like Bean was isolated. They both had to prove that they had what it took to become great.

On the contrary, the kids did trust each other. At least in the Armies. You read how much the Dragon Army trusted each other, and knew how everyone thought, and understood each other.
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Postby ptr.arkanian » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:03 am

to add to what jeesh girl said about the kids trusting each other, i believe thats another reason why they used kids. adults tend to think things through too much and most adults dont find a person trustworthy until they are sure they know them. because kids trust eachother so much more easily, it was easier to get them to work together. the IF didnt have time to have adults "get to know eachother" enough to be trustworthy. they did have time for kids to meet eachother and immediately gain eachothers' trust through just a few simple battle games.

another thing, adults wouldve thought too deeply into the project of destroying the formics. Graff couldnt have kept the fact that a fleet was being sent toward the formic homeplanet secret if he had adults in battleschool. if spread, this news wouldve reached earth and caused political turmoil. the children at battleschool were so serious about the game itself that they gave little thought to what it was actually training them for.
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Postby perspicacious.emperor » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:43 pm

Oh please. Children are just easy to manipulate. Once you know their behavioural patterns, it's not hard to make them go in a direction you want. And the best thing is most of the time they don't even know it.

And really, they're the ones doing the act, not taking the responsibility. No one is thinking about the consequences on the children. The kids grew up with anti-bugger propaganda. They're not going think about taking responsibility for a eliminating a whole race. They're thinking about how it would benefit them if they become heroes.

Battle School employs a Darwinistic system because the bugger conflict is a Darwinistic situation. They're still in that stage where they don't have enough power to give something a chance. Like Bean says (or OSC narrates through Bean's eyes), you can't wait until you become stronger; you have to make yourself stronger right then or else you're dead. They can't afford the luxury of equality amongst the races until they have the power to take them down if need be.

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Postby ptr.arkanian » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:04 am

in my opinion, the darwinistic system only worked at battleschool because they were kids. because kids are selfish. they want to survive and they think little to nothing about helping the people around them. adults on the other hand wouldve thought of the bigger picture and wanted to help their fellow schoolmates in order to make easier the burden on themselves. the IF didnt need this, the IF only needed a very small group of brilliant people who fought their way to the top simply because they wanted to survive.
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Postby perspicacious.emperor » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:21 pm

I admire your faith in adults but I don't think that's always the case...

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Postby ptr.arkanian » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:15 am

i didnt say i have faith in adults. i believe they look at the "bigger picture" alot more than kids do. but that isnt necessarily a good thing. especially in war or military training, it is much more important to live in the present and face the current issues than to worry about what is to coming tomorrow or after that. because first you have to live to tomorrow, so there truely is no day but today. live each moment as your last. i believe that is more of the way a child thinks. they dont think about long run consequences its about what will fix the problem right now. i think that's one of the reasons why ender suceeded in the final exam. he was so focused on winning the current battle that he didnt need to think about saving some ships for next time. in the end, this was the only way to victory.
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Postby perspicacious.emperor » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:03 pm

adults on the other hand wouldve thought of the bigger picture and wanted to help their fellow schoolmates in order to make easier the burden on themselves.
heh heh. "help".

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Postby ptr.arkanian » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:12 am

would you prefer if i used a different word?
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Postby perspicacious.emperor » Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:36 pm

It is fine. :]

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Postby spanish_rockette » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:33 am

children are easy mangable. adults arent. you change an adluts mind easily. but with children you can. why do you thin they have us going to school when we are 5?
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."

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Postby Froth » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:38 am

children are easy mangable. adults arent. you change an adluts mind easily. but with children you can. why do you thin they have us going to school when we are 5?
Or younger.

The ethical side of it...well, is there really a way to raise a kid completely ethical? No matter what you do, youre going to raise your kid with bias. Youre going to instill a sense of purpose. It's just that battle school was a little more straight forward with it. Like the Spartans or some other war based society. So yes, they didnt grow up in the same setting that any of is here grew up, but does that necessarily mean they were raised in an immoral setting? I think the only immoral thing is taking kids from the parents, and the Wiggins didnt seem to fight about that.

Did it seem to anyone else that a computer could have played the game? I mean the buggers were pretty straightforward with their tactics. Computers can beat humans at just about any game where theres straight forward rules.
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such is me and my humor.

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Postby spanish_rockette » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:23 pm

that is true. i agree with the whole taking kids from their parents thing.
"leaving both her husbands behind, the one whose life had a monument and a book, and the one whose only monument was in her heart."


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