Bean and the Movie
Bean and the Movie
I read a couple of posts regarding Bean, and as a newcomer to Enders Game and this site, I'm sure I'm on trodden ground, but...
I always got the impression from EG, that Ender simply empathized with Bean as he was so young and small, and was much quicker and smarter than most of his classmates. It seems that Ender just saw a lot of himself in Bean. I guess there was much more to the relationship in the following books. Please expound.
And, I guess I don't understand, but why does every book that is popular and masses of people like have to become a movie? Most of you are just going to complain about how parts of it weren't true to the story, and how the characters weren't cast right, etc, etc...
Why can't it just be a great work as it is, in novel form?
I always got the impression from EG, that Ender simply empathized with Bean as he was so young and small, and was much quicker and smarter than most of his classmates. It seems that Ender just saw a lot of himself in Bean. I guess there was much more to the relationship in the following books. Please expound.
And, I guess I don't understand, but why does every book that is popular and masses of people like have to become a movie? Most of you are just going to complain about how parts of it weren't true to the story, and how the characters weren't cast right, etc, etc...
Why can't it just be a great work as it is, in novel form?
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Because the story is important, thus deserving to be told in a wide variety of media?
I've always had a problem with people who were upset about adaptations, mostly because the chief complaint is that the director/writers left something out that they liked, which inevitably leads to claims of it being "ruined." The point of adaptations isn't to just film the book; it's to tell the story through a different medium. If that means changing something, or leaving something out, that's okay.
I've always had a problem with people who were upset about adaptations, mostly because the chief complaint is that the director/writers left something out that they liked, which inevitably leads to claims of it being "ruined." The point of adaptations isn't to just film the book; it's to tell the story through a different medium. If that means changing something, or leaving something out, that's okay.
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I agree. I'm definitely not one of those fans who complains about adaptations. I know what Ender's Game looks like in my mind. I want to see it brought to life. Even if it's terrible (like David Lynch's Dune) it won't replace the version I have in my mind. That will always be there, and I can ignore the film if I don't like it. If it's great (like the Lord of the Rings films) it will actually enhance my enjoyment of the book and provide me with a whole new way to immerse myself in the story.
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OSC has written it a couple of times as far as i know. he's been working on it for like 10 years now. hopefully they'll move on it someday.
OSC has written it a couple of times as far as i know. he's been working on it for like 10 years now. hopefully they'll move on it someday.
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Regarding the first, question - there's an entire series of books where Bean is the main character which are sequels to Ender's Game, which is where most of the discussion of the character comes from.
I'd say, at least here, most people prefer the direct sequels to Ender's Game than Bean's Shadow series, but if you want to know why people are interested in him, that's why.
I'd say, at least here, most people prefer the direct sequels to Ender's Game than Bean's Shadow series, but if you want to know why people are interested in him, that's why.
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I think that Ender was a much bigger part of Bean's life than Bean was of Ender's. Ender never really knew that Bean was shadowing him during the Bugger wars, and in fact seemed to be the one person who never fully grasped how smart and talented Bean was (though he did recognize he had talent in Dragon Army).
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You wanna talk ruined? Okay let's talk ruined.
Ella Enchanted was ruined. How? Characters taken, concept taken; development, storyline, imagery, all disposed of and mashed into something horribly indistinguishable from its original form, all to make it a sellable story. One of my favourite childhood books ruined by a movie. I've never forgiven movies-from-books since.
Everytime I see a movie version of a book, I complain (even the pandemic Twilight ughhh). But I always think about the epitomy of fail that is Ella Enchanted. Then I feel better. Slightly.
My point: I'll always complain. But a movie seems nice, if only to get the story across a broader range of audience.
Ella Enchanted was ruined. How? Characters taken, concept taken; development, storyline, imagery, all disposed of and mashed into something horribly indistinguishable from its original form, all to make it a sellable story. One of my favourite childhood books ruined by a movie. I've never forgiven movies-from-books since.
Everytime I see a movie version of a book, I complain (even the pandemic Twilight ughhh). But I always think about the epitomy of fail that is Ella Enchanted. Then I feel better. Slightly.
My point: I'll always complain. But a movie seems nice, if only to get the story across a broader range of audience.
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Maybe they should make sure it relates to a more mature audience and be confusing and use big word to where only really smart people and people who have read the books can understand. That way it won't turn into some annoying teenage-type movie like Twilight.
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Screenwriters are always going to have this problem: old crew vs. new audience. You either stick to the original religiously to gain approval from people who already love it, or you create it into something everyone can relate to. Based on sellability, there is no reason to assume they will ever seriously consider the former. They're already guaranteed that the existing fanbase is going to be attracted to the film. So all they have to do is to make it appeal to the general public.
I think that's what Twilight did, except it already had a pretty big fanbase, but it truly became infectious after the film. (I am, ashamedly, a pre-movie Twitard. I should know lol.)
I think that's what Twilight did, except it already had a pretty big fanbase, but it truly became infectious after the film. (I am, ashamedly, a pre-movie Twitard. I should know lol.)
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Well, as I have read in other forums concerning the movie, OSC seems to be sticking pretty damn close to the original story, and because of this is having issues finding a producer willing to make the movie without any major changes. I applaud him for this. I don't want Hollywood destroying the meaning of the entire story by, for instance, making ender unregretful after destroying the Bugger world. It is just such things that, to an outsider, seem to have no effect at all on the story, but to us, completely changes who Ender really is.
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I agree. These actors should be quoting calculus formulas and making references to political commentaries, even if some of the audience doesn't get it. Unfortunately, the modern audience is pretty ignorant. To show exactly how ignorant they are: I saw "Yes Man" last year, and there was a joke referencing Karl Marx, and nobody laughed except me and my educated friends. Another audience member even asked me who Karl Marx was.... ya, that's how sad modern education is. My point is: make the movie appealing to people who get it; this increases the value of the humor and of the movie overall. Even if most people are ignorant.I think the movie should be targeted towards an adult audience or a more academic community. Since the kids are smart, they should act that way and use complex words etc.
Under the spreading chesnut tree
I sold you and you sold me:
There they lie, and here lie we
Under the spreading chesnut tree.
I sold you and you sold me:
There they lie, and here lie we
Under the spreading chesnut tree.
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True, but those who have read the book will know what the book is talking about in terms of philosophy and ethics at least, and that is all one can ask for, although it is true that with the complexity of the books and the fact that most of the thinking occurs in someone's head (there are no people that the characters "confide in"), the market for the movie may be severely limited to the fans of the books.
I agree. These actors should be quoting calculus formulas and making references to political commentaries, even if some of the audience doesn't get it. Unfortunately, the modern audience is pretty ignorant. To show exactly how ignorant they are: I saw "Yes Man" last year, and there was a joke referencing Karl Marx, and nobody laughed except me and my educated friends. Another audience member even asked me who Karl Marx was.... ya, that's how sad modern education is. My point is: make the movie appealing to people who get it; this increases the value of the humor and of the movie overall. Even if most people are ignorant.
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Thats how I want it, but that is not how Hollywood wants it. Hollywood wants to make money, and the best way to do that is to make it as appealing as possible to as many people as possible. Hopefully, keeping the movie true to the book WILL make it appealing to the masses...... the market for the movie may be severely limited to the fans of the books.
Under the spreading chesnut tree
I sold you and you sold me:
There they lie, and here lie we
Under the spreading chesnut tree.
I sold you and you sold me:
There they lie, and here lie we
Under the spreading chesnut tree.
Okay, I cannot listen to a discussion of "Dumb it down for mass appeal vs. smart it up but lose audience" and not interject the universal example that no such conflict need ever exist:
GILMORE GIRLS.
Fine, this is a room full of sci-fi fans, and most of you probably don't know or care much about a girly TV dramedy, but please bear with me.
Gilmore Girls is chock full of references no one gets. It was explicitly and intentionally written that way. There are so many music, movie, TV, literature, and other obscure references that I'm quite confident that no one on the planet gets them all. And yet the show still works, and had mass appeal and good ratings for years. Because you don't have to get them to understand what's going on, and (this is the important part) everyone gets some of them. Not only were the characters interesting, deep, diverse, and complex (something the show certainly has in common with Ender's Game and OSC's writing generally), but people got the little drops of euphoria of going "Hey! I get that one!" scattered throughout a show that, even without that, was pretty great.
So do that.
Put it all in. Have history, science, math, military, cultural, and sci-fi references buried all through the thing. Known ones, obscure ones, pile 'em on. Have Wu reading The Tale of Genji in the background somewhere. Have Dap reference Jane Austin and Ender notice with an questioning arched eyebrow. Have Bean's 2+2=pi*sqrt(2+n) moment occur on screen. Have fun with it, and the mass audience will have fun, too.
_________
"The kids are vicious. They make Lord of the Flies look like Pollyanna."
"When did you read Pollyanna?"
"It was a book?"
-- Ender's Shadow, intro to Chapter 9
GILMORE GIRLS.
Fine, this is a room full of sci-fi fans, and most of you probably don't know or care much about a girly TV dramedy, but please bear with me.
Gilmore Girls is chock full of references no one gets. It was explicitly and intentionally written that way. There are so many music, movie, TV, literature, and other obscure references that I'm quite confident that no one on the planet gets them all. And yet the show still works, and had mass appeal and good ratings for years. Because you don't have to get them to understand what's going on, and (this is the important part) everyone gets some of them. Not only were the characters interesting, deep, diverse, and complex (something the show certainly has in common with Ender's Game and OSC's writing generally), but people got the little drops of euphoria of going "Hey! I get that one!" scattered throughout a show that, even without that, was pretty great.
So do that.
Put it all in. Have history, science, math, military, cultural, and sci-fi references buried all through the thing. Known ones, obscure ones, pile 'em on. Have Wu reading The Tale of Genji in the background somewhere. Have Dap reference Jane Austin and Ender notice with an questioning arched eyebrow. Have Bean's 2+2=pi*sqrt(2+n) moment occur on screen. Have fun with it, and the mass audience will have fun, too.
_________
"The kids are vicious. They make Lord of the Flies look like Pollyanna."
"When did you read Pollyanna?"
"It was a book?"
-- Ender's Shadow, intro to Chapter 9
It occurs to me that Gilmore Girls is far from the only TV show to refuse to dumb things down for the masses. Fraiser prattled on and on about art, fine dining, and opera since his days on Cheers. The Big Bang Theory actually employs a physicist to keep their obscure science references accurate.
There's no particular reason references to things a viewer isn't likely to know necessarily disrupts the flow of the story, and for those viewers who do know it the effect can only be to prove intellectual legitimacy.
There's no particular reason references to things a viewer isn't likely to know necessarily disrupts the flow of the story, and for those viewers who do know it the effect can only be to prove intellectual legitimacy.
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