Games

[tara0051 - UMD]

In the book, Ender while playing the games, Ender always seems to have to go outside of the games limits and break the rules in order to win. A great example of this is in the mind game, where he ends up fighting the giant after repeatedly choosing the wrong cup. Is he justified in doing this? At what point do you draw the line, where you shouldn’t break the rules in order to be successful?

[Jeesh_girl15]

Well, Ender has to win at all cost. That's just the way he is. I mean, he could lose if he wanted to, but that is hardly ever, unless you count the time with Achilles junior.

[spaulso1]

I have just read EG for the first time, so I can only imagine this has been covered in a multitude of ways. I just found the idea of this thread interesting.

Did Ender really break rules? The computer programs seemed to be designed to specifically give him what he needed. The war concepts in EG are uncomfortable, but it opens up the ideas of rules of war, engagement, unfairness, and unnecessary acts. Perhaps it is wrong, but I think Col. Graff put it well, “Fairness is a wonderful attribute, Major Anderson. It has nothing to do with war.”

If you believe your entire world will be destroyed, do rules and fairness really apply? Why would you handicap your ability to win in war, or handicap your survival.

[Jeesh_girl15]

Hey welcome spaulso1! I can't offer any limeade, but I think gzoya is fine. You'll understand it later if you don't now.

Nice view of that. I agree totally.

[joh02305]

@spaulso1 I agree with your point completely. Survival is the utmost goal. I wonder though if Ender would have achieved the success he did, if he had known that the games were reality. I think his innovation and “win-at-all-cost” techniques were derived 1) from his intelligence and 2) his un-encumbrance with bad habits or the status quo – as older soldiers seemed to be. So if he knew that the games or simulations were real, would he have experienced the same outcomes?

[^Peter]

joh, this is something that has frequently been debated on pweb. What's mostly been decided is that Ender had what it took NO MATTER WHAT.

[Eskarina]

Uh, I think there's a similar conversation in the thread "who's the best wiggin" or "is Ender the only wiggin who could defeat the buggers"

Oh no. Referencing another thread is just so uncool, it's like you were saying this thread could be well embedded into another one because it's not bringing anything new to the debate.

That's spoiling my plans for making a What ways would Peter kill the Giant? thread, and I hate you for it.

[Jeesh_girl15]

Why doesn't anyone welcome the new people?! Am I the only semi-friendly person here?

Welcome to Pweb, Joh. I think you'll find people here can be a little catty here. Don't go picking fights. (experienced in that here)


ender does have whatever it takes, no matter what ,though.

[mcswe002]

I agree with what has been said about the rules of the game. When you are in a war, rules change, and sometimes the rules need to be broken. War a lot of times is just about survival of the fittest. Ender is expected to be the next Alexander the Great, and none of those guys got anywhere by following the rules all the time. Yes, Ender probably would have acted differently had he known that the game was actually reality, but he may not have won as a result of this. It just goes to show the lengths people will go to win.

[Pseudonym]

In the book, Ender while playing the games, Ender always seems to have to go outside of the games limits and break the rules in order to win. A great example of this is in the mind game, where he ends up fighting the giant after repeatedly choosing the wrong cup. Is he justified in doing this?

Well, the thing about this statement, is that it's not entirely accurate. Ender never chose the 'wrong' cup, instead, there was no right cup. So, what would any rational person do, when given a choice between death...and death? Choose life ofcourse, at any cost.

At what point do you draw the line, where you shouldn’t break the rules in order to be successful?

At what point do you draw the line? Who says there's a line at all? Depending on perspective, the line could be a dot.

Also, Ender didn't break any rules, he just did something that no one else had done before. Unless you're given a strict code to follow, the rules of the world are what you make of them, even then, rules only have power if you obey them.

So my answer to you good sir, is that one should never give up, never surrender. Life is always the more favorable choice when paired against death.

[cameronlanyk]

I've seen previous posts which state that Ender had to bend or break the "rules" to win the battle simulations. Since when are their "rules" in war? Ever heard the quote "All is fair in love and war"? In its simplest sense, it is survival of the fittest. In the days of the cro-magnon man, the strongest man with the biggest club would win, plain and simple. These days, the nation that will win any given war is the one that has the deadliest weapons, the most organized, and has the best strategy. War does not care about "right and wrong". Their are no rules, only survival.

It may have been unfair for Ender to hack into the system as he did when the odds were overwhelmingly stacked against him, but he did what was needed to win. However morally aprehensible it was to destroy the entire bugger planet, it was the only way for Ender to win and he knew it. And we can all agree, Ender will win any challenge no matter what the cost.

[Person122]

Speaking of the rules of war, there are the Geneva Conventions, however it doesn't seem like anyone is really following it nowadays.