Does age matter?

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Does age matter?

Postby obera004 » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:47 pm

This is my first time posting here, I just finished Ender's Game a few days ago.

I liked the book very much, the author gave it the sort of style that you enjoy getting to know the characters which was great. However, this book also left me with much lingering uneasiness.

First of all is the way Ender was chosen; he not only fought back when attacked, but sent a message to his enemies. This is a recurring theme throughtout the book. Whenever anyone wanted to engage Ender, he killed them, maybe not always intentionally, but that was the outcome. There was the kid Ender killed when he was only FIVE, the kid in the shower, and the entire Bugger race.

One of the other things about this book that left me uneasy, was the fact that these children saw no other option when the government came for them, it was their duty to join the fight against the Buggers. Ender was only five when he first left. Did being exposed to so much destruction at such a young age ultimately make Ender's final decision for him? Also, when he decided to use Dr. Device, he was under false pretenses, and therefore not able to make an educated decision. Not to mention the fact that the whole future of the planet and race was in his hands at the tender age of 11.

These are just a few of the things that I had a hard time with in the book, but overall I liked it.

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Postby Gravity Defier » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:53 pm

There was the kid Ender killed when he was only FIVE
An 8 year old child in AZ, just this year, murdered his father and one other person (not sure of the relation). Not the same as Ender, but I no longer have any doubts that the lower age limit for being capable of murder is much lower than I ever considered it would be for a person not participating in war. Then, of course, there are the many children kidnapped in various parts of Africa and turned into little soldiers.

The world in which Ender is drafted into the military, it is expected (well, I always assumed so until reading EiE...which made the practice seem much newer than I always thought) and even an honor to be chosen, so there really wouldn't be much of a fight put up.

So no, in the end, I'm not convinced age does matter for the actual acts of violence but it does for the emotional/mental well being.
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Postby theevilpplz » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:39 pm

They joined because as Gravity Defier said, for honor. To fight to save the human race. And also, it sounded fun. And at 5, you don't know how long around 15-20 years of service actually is. And you can make an educated decision under false pretenses, using all the information you know, but it isn't a fully-educated guess.
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Postby Jeesh_girl15 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:24 pm

FYI, the kid in the shower was Bonzo
Anyway, Ender didn't know the whole fate of the world was in his hands.
Graff and Mazer used him.
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Postby CezeN » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:57 am

Aren't there like young kid in Africa constantly getting recruited into "armies"/"wars"? Blood Diamond anyone. Based on the realistic truth of some of the stuff that goes down there.
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Postby elfprince13 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:20 am

a huge part of OSC's work, was that being 8 or 9 or 10 years old doesn't make you a "kid" if you've lived through things that most grown-ups can't imagine. He emphasizes it with pretty much all his young characters, and even comments in his introduction that its one of the things about his books that turns a lot of adults off Ender's Game.....because they find it seriously disturbing to realize that kids don't always think like kids, and they certainly never feel like kids.
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Postby Jeesh_girl15 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:17 pm

True. No of the children from Battle School are really still kids.
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Postby greenbrowngreen » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:44 pm

Several have mentioned kids in Africa kidnapped to become soldiers, though probably not the best analogy as most of them are taken against their will etc. However, look at ancient Sparta, their military training started at a very young age and was viewed as not only an honor but a duty to Sparta and to their homes and families.

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Postby caspe056 » Thu May 14, 2009 3:53 pm

I agree that it was unsettling in the fact that these children are taken from home with virtually no say. However Jeesh was correct in say that Ender didn't know the worlds fate was in his hands.
Graff and Mazer did use him, just as they have used countless others in the past.
One of the main themes, in my mind, of EG is isolation and alienation. Graff's isolation and manipulation of Ender and others could only be achieved when they are young and do not know any better. It is also this isolation that plays a large part in Ender becoming such a strong military leader.
To me, the acts by Graff and the teacher are one of the aspects that walk the fuzzy line between good and evil.

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Postby Jeesh_girl15 » Fri May 15, 2009 4:56 pm

Hey capse056! Welcome to P-web. I can't offer limeade, but have gzoya/gyoza (can you tell I have know clue how to spell it, and am to lazy to look it up in a dictionary even though there's one on my computer)

I was just going over what we learned about ancient Greece earlier in my head. Oh good, I have my book with me. Well, the boys left around age seven to live in barracks. A year or so after Battle Scho They were harshly treated to make them tough. They had to eat gross food called black broth that was boiled in animal blood, salt, and vinegar. EWW! They entered the real military after 13 years. Not quite as short as Battle school. I think I'd rather be a girl in ancient Sparta.
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Postby elfprince13 » Fri May 15, 2009 6:38 pm

I was just going over what we learned about ancient Greece earlier in my head. Oh good, I have my book with me. Well, the boys left around age seven to live in barracks. A year or so after Battle Scho They were harshly treated to make them tough. They had to eat gross food called black broth that was boiled in animal blood, salt, and vinegar. EWW! They entered the real military after 13 years. Not quite as short as Battle school. I think I'd rather be a girl in ancient Sparta.
Except Battle School graduates then go to Tactical or Pre-Command and then Command.
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Postby Jeesh_girl15 » Fri May 15, 2009 7:49 pm

Oh, I forgot to say that they stayed in the military barracks til they were 30 , then left, but were still part of the army til they were 60. Imagine a 60 year old man in combat. :)
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Postby elfprince13 » Sun May 17, 2009 12:08 pm

Oh, I forgot to say that they stayed in the military barracks til they were 30 , then left, but were still part of the army til they were 60. Imagine a 60 year old man in combat. :)
There are plenty of 60 year old men who stay fit enough to be in "fighting shape"
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Postby Jeesh_girl15 » Sun May 17, 2009 12:27 pm

The book did say that the men exercized and stayed fit even after they went home to their families. Even the women and girls did sports and stuff. All the Spartans were in excellent shape.
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Sun May 17, 2009 7:31 pm

Well, it's not like there were a lot of them, given that the life expectancy at the time was around thirty.
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