Philotic Web

Okay well at first i wasn't sure if i would like this book because it is kind of like a big video game, and i am not into video games at all but as it turns out this has been my favorite sci fi book so far.
My question to all of you out there is: What do you think about Ender's novels being the basis of a religion? Do you think it is right that a religion is started on the basis of the murder of an entire race?

The religion was not started in the murder of a race. It was started in the understanding of a race. The Hive Queen was written so that the human race could understand the Formics because Ender found that we misinterpreted their intentions. We destroyed them without knowing exactly why they were fighting us, and Ender knew that once he found the new hive queen and began writing about their history and civilization.

I do agree that the xenocide is what led to the writing of The Hive Queen, but it was not the basis for the religion. He wrote the book to give humans an understanding of the Formics because we did not know them at all. People read into his writing and found a more pure way of speaking about someone after their death. They liked it better to speak the truth of a persons life rather than the half truths that religions gave at funerals.

And with that... the Speakers for the Dead were born with the comprehension of the Formics.

I think that there wouldn't be much in the Ender books to base a religion off of. According to Wikipedia, a religion is "A of way of life based on tenets (or a belief system) about the ultimate power". Although I don't really know for certain what the "ultimate power" is, there seems to be nothing of the sort in the Ender book; not much to be a religion. Although the Ender books are partially about morals and people doing deeds, I'm not able to see a religion being concived of out of the stories.

Why not? If the human race can make religions based on six-armed women and fat men as well as aliens, then why not off stories as well?

It really is not all that far of a stretch of the imagination to think that it could turn into a religion. All you need is enough charismatic and influential people to hop on board *cough*, Scientology, *cough*

Science Fiction authors start all the best religions.

Especially based on bets...

Tcashon is right, anybody can make a religion legitiment as long as it is something people can believe in.

Look at human history... we used to worship Cats, land, people, celestial bodies, one God, multiple Gods and no Gods. It's all in how much a group of people believe. Some nutjob convinced people that if they drank the poison and died while a comet was passing by Earth that they would be taken to the comet and transported to Heaven or some crazy stuff like that.

OSC does pose some very thought provoking theological questions as do many SF writers. For instance, what is sentience? Just because we can't communicate effectively with something does it mean it's not self aware. In the case of the Formics, they were obviously self aware, or at least the queen was. The Pequininos were self aware as well but what about the descolada? Then, since I am a Christian, I ask myself does sentience equal a soul? The questions can go on and on if you apply the central beliefs of other major religions (ie: reincarnation).

I think if a person could solidify in their mind the answers (or what they feel are the answers) to questions like these, could convince others to believe the same things, and could come up with a solid structure for a religion you could end up with a Cult of Ender. Considering all of the crazy cults that have cropped up over the centuries, like "the comet's gonna take us home!" I think it could happen. Would it be right? I don't think so. But it could happen.

As for me I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid!

What about the lime-aid?

Welcome!

I think that there wouldn't be much in the Ender books to base a religion off of. According to Wikipedia, a religion is "A of way of life based on tenets (or a belief system) about the ultimate power". Although I don't really know for certain what the "ultimate power" is, there seems to be nothing of the sort in the Ender book; not much to be a religion. Although the Ender books are partially about morals and people doing deeds, I'm not able to see a religion being concived of out of the stories.

i have two problems with this:

A) wikipedia is the worst resouce i've ever scene.

and B) if you read the entire series it is blatently obvious what the "ultimate power" is, it's any aiua that can get into the world of "out". if the idea about the whole thing by OSC is correct than anyone could make an entire universe and be god.

Look at human history... we used to worship Cats, land, people, celestial bodies, one God, multiple Gods and no Gods. It's all in how much a group of people believe. Some nutjob convinced people that if they drank the poison and died while a comet was passing by Earth that they would be taken to the comet and transported to Heaven or some crazy stuff like that.

Some of the more awesome people believe in Flying Spaghetti Monsters.

I always give props to OSC as a rather clever mormon, seeing how he subtly worked quite a bit of mormon-centric ideology into the Speaker series...so if you don't start your own (lol too much work) might as well look up his source material and give that religion a try.

I hope this doesn't evolve into independent islands and free koolaid for all... Either way, OSC puts alot of religious idea's into the books anyways so as far as it sparking a full on religion itself: probably not. I'm sure in the next decade or two we'll see a few people having their deaths 'spoken' rather than the traditional funerals we see now.

Other than that, I doubt it.

If Star Wars nerds made a "Jedi" religion, why can't we?

So true, PC. But then I would be part of so many religions.... or would that be sacreligious?

I guess it would be a bit sacreligious... Then again, aren't we all a bit at some point?

I do believe the original point was whether or not the books that Ender himself wrote(i.e. the Hive Queen and the Hegemon) could become a basis for the religion that develops in the Speaker series, NOT whether the series could become a basis for actual religion

On that point, though... Any religion which is not truth (I will not specify; I do not want to start a religious debate) is damnable. If some idiot wants to start a religion based on a science fiction series... well ok, I don't really care.

i believe these books are real life, or will someday be real life
in this way i believe speakers, as created in the enderverse series, should exist in the real world. but this is not necessarily a religon.