Would Ender be Ender?

Discuss all things pertaining to the EnderVerse milieu.
kroll074
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Would Ender be Ender?

Postby kroll074 » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:42 pm

Do you think that Ender would have been able to defeat the Buggers and be the Speaker for the dead if he had not grown up with Peter and Valentine? How much do you think that they shaped him? They were only a part of his life for a short time. Would his interactions with them in the first 6 years really make him capable of killing and wiping out an entire species..and then being able to love his enemy?

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Postby neo-dragon » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:09 pm

No, I don't think that he could have done the things that he did if not for them. As we see in Xenocide, he's internalized Peter and Val to such an extent that they represent the two extremes of his personality in his own mind. Ender feels guilt and empathy when he hurts people because he knows that Val wouldn't do it and he fears that it makes him like Peter. Yet, he's capable of utterly destroying his enemies because he's learned ruthlessness from Peter. These traits are no doubt in his genes as well, but I think having his siblings be the angel and devil on his shoulders affected many of his choices and actions.
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Postby Peterlover14 » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:44 pm

Yet the Peter that Ender has in his soul is not the real Peter. The real Peter has a good heart but was just really jealous as a kid
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Postby Lusitania_Fleet » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:59 am

Ofcourse he would have been able to. Peter and Valentine motivated him, but he was Ender. They were not. Curse of the Wiggin children remember? Jon Claude and Teresa were BRED to make these kids. They were who they were.
Life is but a walking shadow, a poor player who struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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Postby Glass » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:24 pm

No, I don't think that he could have done the things that he did if not for them. As we see in Xenocide, he's internalized Peter and Val to such an extent that they represent the two extremes of his personality in his own mind. Ender feels guilt and empathy when he hurts people because he knows that Val wouldn't do it and he fears that it makes him like Peter. Yet, he's capable of utterly destroying his enemies because he's learned ruthlessness from Peter. These traits are no doubt in his genes as well, but I think having his siblings be the angel and devil on his shoulders affected many of his choices and actions.
What i found most interesting was in Ender in Exile, Ender himself tells Valentine that he is trying to create a mental world for Alessandra were she feels herself.
Alessandra later says that she's tired of people making worlds for her to feel happy that it's hurtful and mean. she even tells Ender that he never reveals any sort of emotion to anyone else, Petra notices and says this also. All of these traits are similar to the way Peter behaves. He is the personification of "evil" in Ender's eye's. In addition, Peter also never reveals his true feelings to anyone...his bedroom is sterile, it reveals no personality.
"...there silence suggested that they didn't want to talk about what they didn't want to talk about."

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Postby Peterlover14 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:04 pm

This kid it doing better than me and she has been here for a less than a day.
"I'm drowning in FOOTWEAR!"

-Spike, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Season 7

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Postby Glass » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:08 pm

Rofl I'm flattered. It's great that this forum exists, talking to the friends who havent read EG is getting frustrating. >_<
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Postby Peterlover14 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:15 pm

Hahaha everybody here can understand that completely.
"I'm drowning in FOOTWEAR!"

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Postby Jeesh_girl15 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:22 pm

No duhr. When I first read Ender, I was in 6th Grade. I was always the smartest kid in the class, and *couch* don't mean anything, but I was pretty popular and nice. The people respected my views, I guess. However, even when I tried showing Ender's Game to some friends, they took one look at the cover, read the back, and replaced it to the shelf. I swore it was the best book ever, but they didn't seem to appeal of the whole "science fiction future" topic, and "alien wars." I've still tried recommending the books, but no one listens... It's sad that I'm like the only one who's read it. I feel good here with all these other Ender fans.
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:22 pm

Ofcourse he would have been able to. Peter and Valentine motivated him, but he was Ender. They were not. Curse of the Wiggin children remember? Jon Claude and Teresa were BRED to make these kids. They were who they were.
Jon Claude? Jean Claude? The Timecop?!

Maybe John Paul? ;)
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Postby Glass » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:26 pm

No duhr. When I first read Ender, I was in 6th Grade. I was always the smartest kid in the class, and *couch* don't mean anything, but I was pretty popular and nice. The people respected my views, I guess. However, even when I tried showing Ender's Game to some friends, they took one look at the cover, read the back, and replaced it to the shelf. I swore it was the best book ever, but they didn't seem to appeal of the whole "science fiction future" topic, and "alien wars." I've still tried recommending the books, but no one listens... It's sad that I'm like the only one who's read it. I feel good here with all these other Ender fans.
yeah you seem nice.
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Postby Jeesh_girl15 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:57 pm

Haha, thanks, I guess :) You're not to bad yourself.
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Postby Lusitania_Fleet » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:11 pm

lol may badsyphon. Amateur mistake. I've never even seen timecop, i have no idea where I got teh name. I thoguht john paul, then im like no, thatsa character in Def Jam. So i changed it. Second guessed myself.

I remember when I first read Ender. Third Grade. Didn't understand half the jokes in it though.
Life is but a walking shadow, a poor player who struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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Postby Rodaka » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:59 pm

No duhr. When I first read Ender, I was in 6th Grade. I was always the smartest kid in the class, and *couch* don't mean anything, but I was pretty popular and nice. The people respected my views, I guess. However, even when I tried showing Ender's Game to some friends, they took one look at the cover, read the back, and replaced it to the shelf. I swore it was the best book ever, but they didn't seem to appeal of the whole "science fiction future" topic, and "alien wars." I've still tried recommending the books, but no one listens... It's sad that I'm like the only one who's read it. I feel good here with all these other Ender fans.
Agh, I've only convinced one person to re-read Ender's Game, since required reads are always less appreciated when they're required (if you're teacher doesn't know how to teach a required read). I've never gotten someone to go beyond and get to Speaker for the Dead, though I've got one person who added it on their list.. their list is 60 books long though x.x
"I once heard a tale of a man who split himself in two. The one part never changed at all; the other grew and grew. The changeless part was always true, the growing part was always new, and I wondered, when the tale was through, which part was me, and which was you."

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Postby Crazy Tom: C Toon » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:26 pm

ANYWAY... back to topic

I agree that yes, Ender was a genius, but even without Peter and Valentine, he was still Ender, and he would have had other childhood experiences which would have shaped him as well. If, however, he had grown up like Bean... well, he would have died, but assuming he lived, I think he still could have pulled off a win. He was a good commander becaue of his charisma and genius, not because of his siblings' influence.
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I sold you and you sold me:
There they lie, and here lie we
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Postby Peterlover14 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:31 pm

Sorry this is off topic, but since you haven't posted anywhere else...

Welcome to Pweb Crazy Tom! Glad to see you're posting a lot already. Keep it up. :)
"I'm drowning in FOOTWEAR!"

-Spike, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Season 7


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