Philotic Web

I just finished Enders Game last night. I enjoyed the book very much. I read it in two days...
I think that there are so many references to the real world and our current "war" going on between the United States and the third world countries. What ender is feeling about what he has done or did do to the Buggers and their lives makes me feel that what the soilders and what the troops over in the other countries feel like. Ender felt as if he was forced or tricked into killing and fightin gin the war. Isn't that what they do to many of the tropps or people that volunteer to fight in the army, navy, or any other military service? I am not saying that all of the soilders that are in the war or that are fighting do not want to be fighting or feel that they have been tricked into fighting, but I believe that there are def some of them out there just as Ender felt compared to Bean, Dink, and Petra. They all felt they had done a good service while Ender felt horribel about it. I think that many people are tricked into fighting for the country because they do nto feel that they have anywhere else to turn to. They may not have the support in order to go to college and they may not have the ability or the experience to find a good paying job. So the service seems like a great alternative due to the money a soldier will received once they are released. Ender wasn't looking for money, but when Graff came and got him, they made it seem as if he had no other choice. that this is what he was meant to do. This is what will make him feel worthy. That if he stays on Earth there will be no point to his life. I think that much of what Ender wen through and the after effects after the war is what many soldiers and adults deal with in the present.

Yeah, I greatly agree with you.
That's one of the main reason's I love the Enderverse. The refernces OSC makes to the real world is amazing and you get another view of the events that occuring around us.
With more people being aware and giving more support I think the soldiers who feel "tricked" or otherwise may be relieved of some of the guilt and betrayal that they may feel.
After all, if there are soldiers who don't enjoy war who are out there, fighting, with no other choice, that can lead to serious post-war trauma and also perhaps to future wars....
as in the case of Hitler (it was a difference case, but it was still due to the fact that the post-war situation in Germany lead to that).

There needs to be more freedom and choice. Less war. More peace.

I just read Ender's Game for the first time and I have to say that it was the best piece of science fiction I have read. I was able to get into the story a lot more than most other science fiction books. It was a lot easier for me to understand the story and stay interested in it. I was very interested in the fact that children were used to protect the planet. I find it very hard to picture our government enlisting kids to protect us from enimies. I also found that, like most science fiction books, there were a lot of things that can relate to our own world. It seems similar to the war that is going on now. Many people do not really know what is going on and many believe that the government is keeping things from us. I enjoyed this book and all the things it made me think about after reading it.

Many soldiers have experienced the feelings that Ender experienced at the end of the book. The loss Ender feels for the Buggers is magnified. However, he did not personally know the men and women that died in the real missions, which would magnify the cost and loss that is incurred for both sides of war. This book reminds me of the movie with Mel Gibson,"We were Soldiers". He cannot forgive himself for the loss of his men and has compassion for the people that he was fighting. What makes this interesting is the fact that Ender did not know it was not a game and that people were being killed on his missions that were happening in his games. The war is also basically genocide of the Buggers. The question to be answered is how far must one go to stop an aggressor? When should the act of war start, stop, and the act of compassion follow? I believe that children were recruited to fight the Buggers because the Buggers were just trying to survive. This is the same level that children are at and they do not understand thier strength or fully comprehend thier actions, but they will play the game to win at all cost.

I think that there are so many references to the real world and our current "war" going on between the United States and the third world countries.

I don't understand how there can be references to our current war. This is 2009. Some type of armed conflict has been going on since 2001-02. Ender's Game was written in the 80's. I am willing to bet that there are no references to our current war.

Ender felt as if he was forced or tricked into killing and fightin gin the war. Isn't that what they do to many of the tropps or people that volunteer to fight in the army, navy, or any other military service?

"Okay, soldier," starts the commanding officer, "shoot that, um, dummy over there and have done with it."
The soldier looks at his CO and says to him, "Sir, that can't be a dummy. It's moving."
The CO looks at the moving "dummy" and says, "No, it isn't moving. Just shoot the dummy."
"I don't know if I can, sir. I think it's a real person. Look! Now it's struggling as if tied up."
"Shoot the dummy, young man."
The soldier shoots the "dummy". It stops struggling. He then walks over to the "dummy", uncovers it, and realizes that it was an actual human being. "I was tricked! I was tricked into killing somebody!" The soldier cried.

Nobody is tricked into fighting, killing, or joining the military. They know what they're doing when they sign on the dotted line.

Besides that, I hope I haven't discouraged you from continuing to post at PhiloticWeb.Net.

Oh, yes, and thanks for the sexual innuendo. I felt completely cheated after reading your post.

Yes, they consciously know that they are killing, but I think what the TS is getting at is that they are tricked insofar as they are given (false) motives to fight in the war.

Just because OSC wrote the book before our time doesn't mean that it doesn't/can't apply now. Jane says as much talking to Han.

Sexual Innuendo?

"my first time" like "band camp" is a phrase frought with meaning and sexual innuendo

War has gone on for thousands of years and the motives and feelings that accompany them have not changed. A twenty year time span is merely a "drop in the bucket". I do agree that a person enlisting in the military knows what they are enlisting for and the duties they are to carry out. I have great respect for the soldiers that enlist in times of war and conflict. I have no respect for the ones that enlist in peacetime and take the free college, and then complain that they should not have to honor their contract.

I had to read this book for a science fiction class, and I was skeptical at first, but WOW! I loved it! I would definitely read it again. I was a little let down at the end though, when Ender spent all this time preparing for the war, but in all actuality he was actually battling with the Buggers. It was sort of a let down for me, I was getting all ready for these great war moments, but really it was happening the whole time. Ender was just that good. It still blows my mind that Ender was just eleven. He seemed so much older than his years. I will read this book again and I look forward to the rest of the series!

"Okay, soldier," starts the commanding officer, "shoot that, um, dummy over there and have done with it."
The soldier looks at his CO and says to him, "Sir, that can't be a dummy. It's moving."
The CO looks at the moving "dummy" and says, "No, it isn't moving. Just shoot the dummy."
"I don't know if I can, sir. I think it's a real person. Look! Now it's struggling as if tied up."
"Shoot the dummy, young man."
The soldier shoots the "dummy". It stops struggling. He then walks over to the "dummy", uncovers it, and realizes that it was an actual human being. "I was tricked! I was tricked into killing somebody!" The soldier cried.

Nobody is tricked into fighting, killing, or joining the military. They know what they're doing when they sign on the dotted line.

Besides that, I hope I haven't discouraged you from continuing to post at PhiloticWeb.Net.

Oh, yes, and thanks for the sexual innuendo. I felt completely cheated after reading your post.

well as for the real world, no soldier can be "tricked" into shooting someone, however they may not know the consequences of making that shot.

ender's case however was very different, he didn't even know that he was actually killing someone (or in his case a group of someones). he thought it was just a game and firing the little doctor was just a last ditch attempt to win the game, because he had some val in him i think he never would have done it if he knew that it was real.

Firstly, they enlist children because they do not fully know Right from Wrong, what isn't possible, and don't fully accept Death yet.
And also, it goes like this on a scale for the Wiggen Kids

Understanding of Fear (peter)
Complete Understanding (ender)
Understanding of Dreams (val)

That is not specific, it is just generalised.

I read the first book, a few years ago when i was like 12 or something. I was bored , and i had read all the stuff on my bookcase numerous times. So, i asked my mom if she had anything to read. She handed me EG, and told me it was a good read, and ok for kids.
so i started it and at first was like, What the Heck?!?! I mean, starting with a killing was way weird for me (remember i was 12 at the time.) so i got as far as page 100 and put it down. I forgot about it for a while (like a MONTH). Then one night i was REALLY bored, so i picked it up again and started it over again. i finished it in a few days. After that, i read ES, Which i loved also. Don't stone me people, i know how you guys are.

I loved the whole thing. I think it s a great book to pick up and reread any time.

Just because OSC wrote the book before our time doesn't mean that it doesn't/can't apply now. Jane says as much talking to Han.

There's a pretty big difference between finding themes that apply to all people from all eras and finding "references" to events that happened twenty-years after writing the book. I understand what you were trying to get at, but there is always going to be a barrier (especially online) if the language you use doesn't reflect what you mean, which is why Lyons interpreted it differently.

Also: welcome to Pweb.

so i stared it and at first was like, What the Heck?!?! I mean, starting with a killing was way weird for me (remember i was 12 at the time.)

If you didn't make it very far, how did you know that Stilson died? Or is there another killing that I don't remember?

That being said, I'm glad you picked it up again! Also glad that you liked ES so much. You should look into the other books as well. If you prefer the tactical, strategic focus of EG and ES, I would recommend reading the rest of the Shadow Series next (Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, Shadow of the Giant). If, however, you are looking for something more like the end of Ender's Game, where moral dilemma is the most important part of the plot, then I would recommend the rest of the Ender Quartet (Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind). They're all good books!

Well... I don't know for sure that I KNEW it had been a killing, but still, a 6-year-old beating in another kid's face w/his shoe is not all that appealing to less mature readers. They would just take it a completley wrong way.
(i certainly did)

Anyway, sorry, but you're a little too late advising the other books.
FWI: The moment i finished the first book, i immediatley walked to my mom's room to get ES. I finished the Shadow Series, and loved it, then read the others.

I recently finished the whole series like a 5th or 6th time. And i still love them all.

In my first reading of this novel, I was interested in a couple of aspects. The story is very interesting in regards to having a child be the hope and the future of mankind against the Buggers. I found that Card's using the game to show how Ender was superior to his peers was a way to keep the readers from feeling that Ender was in over his head. It kind of reminds me of the Matthew Broderick movie in which he is a regular adolescent and has to play a computer for the future of mankind. Second, it is interesting to see Ender in comparison to Peter and Valentine, finding a place (personality-wise) in between the two. I also felt that this was more of a mature story hidden in what looked like a children's book, but not too bad. Overall, it was an enjoyable read.

Welcome to pweb, mikeAumd!

A question to my seniors: what's limeaid?

A question to my seniors: what's limeaid?

It's what newbies are sometimes given by pwebbers that meant to give limeade.

This was my second time reading Ender’s Game and I was reminded about just how fabulous this book is. Is it possible to read this book and not completely love Ender Wiggin afterward?! One thing I have seen since reading the book is a sort of general contempt for the adults who pushed Ender to his limits, isolated him, and didn’t prevent him from murdering other kids. It is pretty obvious, at least to me, that Ender would not have accomplished the victory for the human race that he did if circumstances throughout his life had been different. Another thing I think is that children are extremely resilient. I have no doubt that a child put through similar situations for real here on Earth would have some serious emotional and social problems growing up, but I don’t believe anyone is a hopeless case and I believe that, with the right nurturing help and guidance, such a child could recover quite well in the long run. Also, we all know how compassionate Ender is. I think his compassion for other living beings is a major factor of his personality that would help him to recover from all the scary, harsh, sad, challenging things he had been through. I don’t understand truly mean, truly evil people. Why are people like Peter so evil all the way through? Is there some good in there somewhere… some compassion? Maybe the answer to these questions lies in the other books in the series.

Hey olso1713! Welcome to the webland of P-web!!!!!! *voice echoes and echoes and echoes* You should read the other books. They're just as good if not better. (Nice take on EG)

. . . You should look into the other books as well. If you prefer the tactical, strategic focus of EG and ES, I would recommend reading the rest of the Shadow Series next (Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, Shadow of the Giant). If, however, you are looking for something more like the end of Ender's Game, where moral dilemma is the most important part of the plot, then I would recommend the rest of the Ender Quartet (Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind). They're all good books!

GCS is right. They're all good books.

This was my second time reading Ender’s Game and I was reminded about just how fabulous this book is. Is it possible to read this book and not completely love Ender Wiggin afterward?!

To answer this most likely meant as rhetoric only question, I think it is possible. Maybe not probable, but possible definitely, been there.

I didn't feel for the kid after the first reading, because his behavior was way too strange. It felt like he's trying to escape his responsibility with all the 'I had to'.

He took it seriously, he took the challenges seriously, but I still felt he would try to find ways to postpone actual caring about deeper consequences of his actions and the impact it has on other people, other than his victims and their followers. What about their families, loved ones, friends, etc.

To me, he was only a little different from Peter. He was cruel in his ways, and I didn't feel for a cruel kid. He didn't deserve the feelings of loss and he didn't deserve the betrayal, but he DID deserve some serious kick ass moment to get more than rational understanding of human motives, as those were maybe cutting it for him, but not for me.

Again, this is a view I've had after the first reading. It's not how I look on things now or how I've looked at it after second, third reading, you get the idea, but the memory still stays vivid.

How do you look at it now? *bats eyelashes mockingly sweet*

How do you look at it now? *bats eyelashes mockingly sweet*

Definitely differently.

.... Peter is less of a bastard, I mean.