Reaction to Ender's Game

Discuss all things pertaining to the EnderVerse milieu.
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Reaction to Ender's Game

Postby palaz010 » Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:21 pm

I read Ender's Game for a sci-fi class and am not surprised that this is usually the class favorite. The whole book revolves around games (mostly like video). My favorite part about the book is that children are treated like little adults. Children are quite able to understand so many things and are like little sponges. They soak up information and really know how to think for themselves that is until adults start to mold their minds differently. It seemed very important that Ender was able to think things through for himself without help from adults to become the leader they needed to defend humanity against the third invasion.

I'm wondering if the rest of the series revolves around video games.

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Re: Reaction to Ender's Game

Postby UnnDunn » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:03 pm

I'm wondering if the rest of the series revolves around video games.
It doesn't. But don't let that stop you from reading them. The sequel, Speaker for the Dead is widely regarded to be better than Ender's Game.

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Postby Luet » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:13 am

I don't know about "widely regarded"...I think SftD is terrific but in a completely different way than EG.
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Postby UnnDunn » Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:47 pm

I don't know about "widely regarded"...I think SftD is terrific but in a completely different way than EG.
Well, nearly everyone I've spoken to who has read both has preferred Speaker (though they unanimously agree that EG made a bigger impact on them.) Granted, that's only maybe 5 people (apart from you guys.)

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Postby Kara » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:05 pm

I read Ender’s Game for the first time in 8th grade, about 7 years ago. I read Ender’s Shadow and Shadow of the Hegemon shortly thereafter, but Ender’s Game definitely stood out in my mind as a more memorable novel than the other two. I remember Shadow of the Hegemon being quite difficult to get through; politics played a strong role and, as a 13-year-old, I found it boring and a bit over my head.

Anyway, I recently picked up and re-read Ender’s Game for school again this past week, and I was shocked at how much the novel seemed to change. I only had vague memories of what the plot was about as I started, but as I continued reading things began to come back to me. It was very interesting, understanding things now that were a bit confusing in 8th grade – for example, the end of the novel, with Ender finding the game he played in battle school brought to reality on one of the buggers’ worlds.

I’ve seen Ender’s Game in both the children’s section of bookstores, and in the adult science fiction section. Having read it as both, I can say that, in my opinion, it does fit in both places. Children can relate to Ender because he is a child, even though he doesn’t behave like any kid I’ve ever met. Adults can enjoy it because of the entwining storylines and layers of meaning. And, of course, both can enjoy it because it is a good story.

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Postby akrolsmir » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:16 pm

I don't know... I read the entire shadow series in 7th grade, and loved all the political maneuvering and such...

I don't understand why everyone likes SftD better. Yes, I know its completely on a different standard than EG. Still, EG strikes me as more... actionful? not so philosophical and somewhat dreary.
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Postby UnnDunn » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:02 pm

I don't know... I read the entire shadow series in 7th grade, and loved all the political maneuvering and such...

I don't understand why everyone likes SftD better. Yes, I know its completely on a different standard than EG. Still, EG strikes me as more... actionful? not so philosophical and somewhat dreary.
To me, EG was really quite simple. Impactful, riveting and highly enjoyable, but still quite simple. SftD may not have had the visceral impact of EG, but it was so much richer and it stands up well to multiple readings.

Part of it is that in EG, Ender's life was controlled and manipulated so thoroughly that while his achievements are extraordinary, it's almost as if they aren't really his. In SftD, we get to see what Ender does when he isn't being manipulated and controlled by everyone around him, and his character turns out to be much more compelling as a result.

There's a saying that goes something like "diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means." In EG we get to see Ender make war. In SftD we get to see Ender make diplomacy. The latter is always more intriguing than the former, IMHO.

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Postby mgumd » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:10 pm

I enjoyed Ender's game. I liked the way the children of the story were so mature and wise for their age. I liked that greed and power was intertwined with the story in a way that left the protagonist unaware enough of the harsh reality that he, himself, did not change that much. His killings were unintended, all of them. He was simply used - that's a good word for it- by them to accomplish their evil.

I think that this is an interesting theory - using one's genius in order to destroy. Especially if the genius is unaware. I can't really think of a modern-day example, but when I think of the geniuses who are employed by "evil companies"....perhaps those that do questionable research, or test on animals, I think of Ender's Game. It is true that Ender was aware of some of the evil, but not to the extent that say a brilliant scientist in today's day and age would be about the innerworkings of whatever company he/she might work for.

It is just interesting to ponder moral responsibility and how much Ender was responsible versus those who cultured his environment and circumstances and then lied to him were.

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Postby NickUMD » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:36 pm

I have just finished Ender's game for the first time. I was assigned this book for a SciFi class and I haven't YET read the other novels in the series. Its very easy to see why so many kids who have taken the class say it is their favorite work of all of them. I flat out loved this story!

I really enjoyed the detail that Scott Card goes into in describing the battles that Ender's army goes into and how he wins them. It was cool to read about the different tricks that Ender and his crew had up their sleeves with each test thrown at them.

At first it was weird to think of these children that are so young being so intelligent and acting in the manner they do. However after a while it just seemed to make the story more enjoyable for me. I would stop after a page and think about 6 and 7 year old kids fighting out these little battles and just laugh.

As I had mentioned before I really enjoyed this story and I hope I can find the time soon enough to continue the journey. :twisted:

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Postby powerfulcheese04 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:28 am

perhaps those that do questionable research, or test on animals, I think of Ender's Game..
I know this has nothing to do with the actual content of this post, but that phrase bothers me.

1- what is "questionable research"? Very little that has any ethical complications gets past any of the review boards that govern scientific research (or really any research that involves more than reading what other people have written) anymore. I suppose rogue researchers may exist, but they don't operate within the scientific norm or our community.

2- Animal testing is not, in and of itself, inherently wrong. In fact, one of my favorite posters shows an image of animal testing protestors and notes that thanks to animal testing, the protestors' life expectancy has been increased by 23.5 years: (http://store.fbresearch.org/DisplayImag ... upsize=200) Essentially, animal testing isn't inherently unethical. As long as the animals are humanely treated during their lives, animal testing is an excellent tool in the development of both human and animal medicine.


(I may be biased in these areas though as I was actively involved in undergraduate research (on cells, though) and am currently in veterinary school with the intention of going on to be board certified in Lab Animal Medicine.)
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Postby zeroguy » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:06 pm

2- Animal testing is not, in and of itself, inherently wrong.
I don't see how you can say something like this unqualified. If someone were to treat animal life as ethically equally significant as human life, it most certainly would be wrong. (If it weren't, why would you not test on just humans?)
In fact, one of my favorite posters shows an image of animal testing protestors and notes that thanks to animal testing, the protestors' life expectancy has been increased by 23.5 years: (http://store.fbresearch.org/DisplayImag ... upsize=200)
This makes little sense to me; since something benefits the protesters, it makes some kind of paradox for them to be protesting it? Sort of along the same lines with the above, replace "Stop animal research!" in that image with "Stop african-american research!" (And all of the people in the protest were caucasian or something)

Edit: I don't protest against animal testing or anything; and I wish you the best in vet school and all that good stuff.
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Postby shadow_8818 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:32 pm

:o
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Postby jorg0231 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:08 pm

...snip...

Anyway, I recently picked up and re-read Ender’s Game for school again this past week, and I was shocked at how much the novel seemed to change. I only had vague memories of what the plot was about as I started, but as I continued reading things began to come back to me. It was very interesting, understanding things now that were a bit confusing in 8th grade – for example, the end of the novel, with Ender finding the game he played in battle school brought to reality on one of the buggers’ worlds.

...snip...
I also just recently re-read EG for school, and still managed to get many new things out of the novel that I missed on my first reads through. (I have now read this novel 10+ times since I first picked it up) Every time I read this novel I am reminded again that it is truly a wonderful piece of literature it is. Now that this class has me back on an EG kick, and I am planning on re-reading each and every one of the novels in both the Ender Series and Shadow series (All have been read once, some have been read more than that, but none as often as EG).

I also want to say Kudos to you folks here on the outstanding forums, and for opening my eyes to the fact that Ender's Exile is now out! I must have been living under a rock for the last few years trying to keep my school work under control. As soon as finals week is over I am definitely going out to buy this book!


That leads me to my real question...I missed Ender's Exile, what else have I missed, and where can I find them?! (I own and have read Enders Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind, First Meetings, Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, and Shadow of the Giant) Thanks ;)
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Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:24 pm

There are 4 short Enderverse stories in Intergalactic Medicine Show (1: Mazer, 1: Han Tzu, 1: new characters introduced in EiE-actually, this story is word for word a chapter in EiE, 1: Bonzo).

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Ethical Dilemmas

Postby danzanel » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:31 am

When does a living thing cease to be a resource and become a being worthy of being treated as an equal? Ender's Game manages to slip this most important of questions right under our nose. Many people when asked will have strong opinions on this, but will not be able to provide a working definition.



In the first novel the Bugger's attempted to colonize earth because they could not recognize our means of communications. In their eyes we were somewhat akin to mosquitoes buzzing around (ironic since they themselves were bugs). However, the buggers had to amend their definition when they saw that we could fight rather effectively to protect our lives and home world.



Within our realm today we have many of the same sociological issues that still need to be dealt with, but will hopefully help us avoid being the "Buggers" to another civilization. One one extreme we have the original draft of our constitution (I am based in the USA) which defined an African American as 3/5 of a person. If you watch the movie "Hotel Rwanda" you will see that a Tutsi is less than human -- a cockroach.



But on the other extreme we have vegans and the practitioners of some far eastern religions (i.e. Buddhism) who believe that any living thing has consciousness and should be regarded as an equal. I have heard of Buddhists that won't even eat an apple until it is about to turn so that they will not destroy another consciousness.



So how do we move forward on both this planet and on other potentially colonizable planets? All too often I run across people who dress their poodle and revere it as an equal human being. I see them feeding their pets heated food and paying for veterinary care that even humans in other counties would be lucky to get (cataract surgery for a dog? Really?). But where does this stop? Few would object to surgery for a horse. How would we approach colonizing a planet inhabited by horses? What if it was inhabited by dolphins?



Yes, Orson Scott Card was able to sneak a doosie of an ethical dilemma right in front of our noses. Pretty impressive for a book many read at the age of 13.

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Postby lyons24000 » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:44 pm

Come on, Jebus. Slip something funny in.
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Postby Jebus » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:17 pm

EDIT: Bah, just delete my posts instead of editing out the part that makes it make sense.
Last edited by Jebus on Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby lyons24000 » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:58 pm

Hmm, I didn't really find that funny but I know you don't care, huh? :P
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Postby Luet » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:35 am

I'm glad about the edit, your post was actually bothering me when I couldn't sleep last night, jeebs. But I didn't know if I was being oversensitive because of my past, so I wasn't going to say anything.
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Postby Jebus » Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:24 pm

I don't really take issue with editing the content, just the way it was edited was absolutely pointless. Changing it from a mention of rohypnol to "spiking" makes it better somehow?

Sorry for upsetting you Luet.

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Postby Luet » Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:33 pm

I didn't see how it was edited, only the afterwards when you deleted the whole thing.

Thanks Jebus, and no worries, on the whole I find you delightfully witty and refreshing. :wink:
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Fantastic!

Postby rachel UMD » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:57 pm

I am new to the science fiction genre but I really really enjoyed reading Ender's Game. I read the book in 2 days, I just couldn't put it down. Once my semester is over, I hope to read the others in the series and I can't wait. While I loved the book throughout, I especially enjoyed the ending. I had a feeling the Buggers were smart enough to do something like that and I liked how Ender dealt with what he had done to them. I felt as though it was a perfect ending to such a great book.
I also loved the way Card used language to describe the Battle School and all the characters and games. I felt like I was watching all the battles in the school take place and I could picture the training game Ender was playing. Of all the science fiction books I have read for class thus far, this was by far the easiest to follow. There were no confusing parts and I felt as though it was a "new to science fiction crowd" friendly. Is there a film on this book? If not, there should be!

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Postby Jebus » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:41 pm

There is a film, Rachael, it was made back in the 70s, but a lot of plot elements where changed, and so was the name of the main character as well. It's called Logan's Run, you should check it out.


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