Philotic Web

[Spoilers for Shadow series]This is a bit of a two part question. I was curious to see what your opinions would be on this, Pweb.

1. Would the FPE (meaning, one government body to rule the entire Earth,) actually, realistically, be able to rise to power and maintain power in real life? The Ender/Shadow series is a fictional, sci-fi string of books, obviously. These things haven't happened, and the possibilities may be zero for them to ever happen.

Do you think humans would ever accept, in a majority, to have one government body rule over them? In the series, it doesn't really technically become accomplished until Peter's 70. Then, from there, it gained even more power and ruled over many planets in the Starways Congress.

In my opinion, I think it might be able to be done. However, I think there'd definitely, in the end, still be 2-3 superpowers who refuse to join (like the US in SotG.)

2. Would you WANT that to happen? For instance, would you want the United Nations (UN) to become much more powerful, to the point of governing Earth?

You'd be a fool not to realize the mass amount of positives AND negatives if the UN increased its power and enforced it on countries. However, in my opinion, I do think the UN should become a global governing body. I know there'd be a lot of bad stuff that'd happen in the process, but as long as it had a large legislature, multiple main executive leaders (no ONE President/Emperor), etc. etc.

Despite all the disagreements, wars, and rebellions, I would want it to work out in the long run. If all countries worked together and focused on solving problems instead of being distracted by fighting each other, we might actually get things done.

i think it might work; but it would take a very long time. In the shadow series, the world had already been united once before under live or death circumstances. Our world is much farther away from that. We don't even have a common language.

So it's pretty much impossibe.

I think it will happen eventually, if only because there will be some global crisis or initiative that will require us to band together, much like the bugger invasion.

I just don't see it happening for the next several hundred years, unless some sort of visionary person emerges to make it happen sooner.

its not possible right now due to its in human nature to commit to war check history out but if we could look to the stars and have a united goal it might be possible

Check history...? Ow.

shadow_8818, your parents weren't brother and sister, were they?

as I said before. lots of christians view world-wide peace and one world government as signs of evil and that end of days is nigh. so it's unlikely that the united states would join a unified government.

Check history...? Ow.

shadow_8818, your parents weren't brother and sister, were they?

No afraid not,

I don't think that could happen in today's world. Theres still to many people at each others throat. I think it was SotG that Bean said to Peter,

"The world has to see the reality of war, the blood that's been spilt. But if you wait to long the feeling will have gone far to deep to rescue any of us."


Not a direct quote, but you guys get what I'm saying. Right?

What makes OSC such great writer is that he is able to create circumstances that, in real life, would really have that sort of effect on the world. I think that if there truly some common threat to all of humanity, there should be no reason all of Earth should unite... but then there're religious tensions...economic differences... ... well, it would be waaaay in the distant future until a unified Earth is even possible... I'm contradicting myself...

The FPE hadn't unified the entire world 60 years in, and oddly enough it was still the US holding out

as I said before. lots of christians view world-wide peace and one world government as signs of evil and that end of days is nigh. so it's unlikely that the united states would join a unified government.

The United States is ALREADY PART OF a unified government. It's called the United Nations, one of the most destructive institutions that the US has joined. The UN makes horrible policy decisions reguarding pretty much... everything.

The World will never be united under a one-world government for the simle reason that man is incapable of doing so. Mankind is naturally competitive. Too many empires have tried to unite the world. The Emire of Alexander the Great rose... and fell. The Roman Empire rose, then fell. The British Empire rose then fell. The American Empire rose...

Seeing a trend?

I see a trend, I also see that in the past empires the only reason they mainly fell was because the ruler eventually became an egotistical and arrogant moron or that they died because people only live so long. In the modern time, conquering could never be faster. All you have to do is threaten the major population centers with extermination and everyone surrenders; of course, that is pretty hard to do with all those ethical restrictions in place, but rules are made by the people in power, and there is no reason why that rule can't change, although whatever empire that is created will probably be destroyed by an egotistical and arrogant leader just like before. Democracy is stable, but it won't work if your conquering the world because democracy doesn't give people political superiority.

So... what do you think? is world peace possible? I think there will always be some moron who ruins everything. Always. Mankind is natually sinful, and peace is an unnatural state. It is not possible.

... and speaking of egotistical morons... why look! Who's in office now?

The closest we'll ever come to "world peace" is "world unification". There's never going to be no conflicts in the world. The whole point of government is to resolve conflicts and prevent conflicts from arising. The day we have world peace is the day we dissolve governments because we are tolerant enough not to create conflicts between ourselves.

((Also, without conflict, the world is boring p:))

I agree except for the idea that the world will ever even be unified. There is too much evil in Man's nature, too few good people in the world for this ever to come to pass

I never said that the world will be unified lol

The closest we'll ever come to "world peace" is "world unification".

yes you did

There's an invisible "if we will ever attempt it" implied.

I don't believe we'll ever be unified. That's boring ._.

lol, I agree completely.

What a depressing thread. No one else thinks that even a unified world is possible?

I guess I'm a "suspecter" of the unification of humanity. Even if it turns out pragmatically impossible, having an idealistic goal to attempt is still important. Similar to how perfection may never be achieved, but trying to become so still brings about good.

United how?

If you looking for a weak central government, we already have it. The UN, WTO, WHO, and Red Cross unite virtually the whole world under a loose set of international rules. They allow for a lot of international chaos, even multiple wars between multiple combatant nations at once. But they do bring a very limited unity and diplomacy to the world as a whole. They could be considered a global government, if a very weak one.

If you're looking for a very strong global nation-state which, with a single legislative effort, can change the laws of all the world in a day, you're waiting for something that will never happen. Even after a US Federal law is signed by the President, it often takes months to implement and years of court challenges before it is solidly codified. Even then, enforcement is often inconsistent even within the USA, even within the various states.

Consider the new, strict Arizona immigration law; it's primary changes to the law are 1) to allow state police to enforce national immigration law (including checking immigration papers just as the INS would), and 2) to prevent city or county governments from refusing to comply (ie, to prevent sanctuary cities). It is trying to create a uniformity of enforcement across the state precisely because there previously wasn't one, and in doing so has created an inconsistency of enforcement between it and neighboring states. The USA as a whole still lacks any national consistency in immigration enforcement. Can the USA really be said to be unified under one government in the strictest sense when such inconsistencies abound? Can a government the size and diversity of the USA, or of the world, possibly enforce laws uniformly across one global jurisdiction? Even if it could, in the face of the vast array of cultural differences, would that truly be justice?

Various compromises between those extremes are possible but not yet implemented. They can be argued on their own merits, though I support diverse nations over imposed global unity in general. The latter requires too much authoritarian force for my tastes, while the former allows for mutually exclusive cultures to coexist by allowing them to disassociate from each other.

What definition of unity you seek greatly affects whether and when you'll see it implemented.

Possible. The bugger invasions always reminded me of Watchmen, and vice-versa. Not sure which came first. Uniting humanity would a=only be possible if there was an external threat (or we think there is). If we do it once though, doing it again wouldn't be that hard. FPE is possible, but only because of the unification first forced by the buggers.

The bugger invasions always reminded me of Watchmen, and vice-versa. Not sure which came first.

The first Watchmen comic was published in September of 1986. The novel Ender's Game was published in 1985, based on the short story of the same name published in August 1977. Ender's Game came first.

FPE is possible, but only because of the unification first forced by the buggers.

Very interesting theory. It's certainly easier to repeat what has already been done rather than break new ground.

the 13 colonies did decide to unite right? so there are points in history when these things have happened. Now there's peace in the US in for the simple reason that states in the US don't go to war with other states when they get pissed off at each other. That pretty much would be the measure of world peace. When people work out their differences instead of fighting a war.

There's also a tendency to view history as easy snapshots when all the great changes in the world came from great struggles. Just because the UN, etc. aren't able to create world peace yet doesn't mean that it won't succeed. And because we keep trying it'll happen one day. And on that day if it's the UN that does it people will see it as a good idea that was the beginning.

i dont think a country would just give in to be ruled under ONE person in the world? or goverment? i never really undertstand that.

... and speaking of egotistical morons... why look! Who's in office now?

He's alot better than the last egotistical moron in office. Im just saying...

... and speaking of egotistical morons... why look! Who's in office now?

He's alot better than the last egotistical moron in office. Im just saying...

Ninja edit:

Check history...? Ow.

shadow_8818, your parents weren't brother and sister, were they?

Ouch, diss.... Seriously, did his comment really justify that response?

I think it is very unlikely that one government will ever rule over the entire world. The only way it could happen is if we were forced to unite together to battle against a common enemy (like in Ender's Game). If it were to happen, however, it would be very bad. This is because there are too many differences in cultures and ways of thinking. A single government could never impose policies that would be fitting for everyone.

Personally, I think governments (or at least ours in the US) impose too many random policies as it is. Live and let live, the rest will sort itself out.

Interesting, so many opinions, non politically educated... There is 2 main things needed for an unify world: Compromise and Tolerance... Are u willing to compromise and tolerate???

Thomas Jefferson said it best. Democracy only works with an educated populace. That is why I am a teacher. As each generation passes the torch to the next, we hope that our children learned from our mistakes. We must strive to be more educated than our parents were. When you eliminate ignorance, then compromise and tolerance will follow.

Thomas Jefferson said it best. Democracy only works with an educated populace. That is why I am a teacher. As each generation passes the torch to the next, we hope that our children learned from our mistakes. We must strive to be more educated than our parents were. When you eliminate ignorance, then compromise and tolerance will follow.

Love it!!!

Thomas Jefferson said it best. Democracy only works with an educated populace. That is why I am a teacher. As each generation passes the torch to the next, we hope that our children learned from our mistakes. We must strive to be more educated than our parents were. When you eliminate ignorance, then compromise and tolerance will follow.

Which is why, as an individual and father, I am seeking to become as educated as possible on our history (as a world, not just a nation), and be able to share that with my children. I don't doubt, AviLocke, that you will be a better teacher than those I had teaching me history. Because I left the school system knowing nothing about history. I'm now reading histories on my own time, and learning how much essential information I simply wasn't taught.

I'm also far more interested and self-motivated in learning (and applying) history now than I ever was in high school.

Which is why, as an individual and father, I am seeking to become as educated as possible on our history (as a world, not just a nation), and be able to share that with my children. I don't doubt, AviLocke, that you will be a better teacher than those I had teaching me history. Because I left the school system knowing nothing about history. I'm now reading histories on my own time, and learning how much essential information I simply wasn't taught.

I'm also far more interested and self-motivated in learning (and applying) history now than I ever was in high school.

Do not forget that history is subjective, The only way to have a better idea of the truth is to read both sides of the story