Ender's Game Reaction

Discuss all things pertaining to the EnderVerse milieu.
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Ender's Game Reaction

Postby dahl0632 » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:12 pm

I loved it! I had to read it for school which usually sours books for me, but this was an instant hit for me.

From the very beginning I couldn't set the book down, I felt some sort of connection with Ender. He is a genius that is being forced to play video games. Others are jealous of him because of his skill.

Then to learn what the IF has done to him just makes me very mad, and makes me think about how this relates to our world. Soon we will be training people to play war games and they will really be piloting bombers. Do we really need to go to war, or just sit down and talk? We are all people you know, I think we can work something out. Well before I turn this into something political, let me close by saying that I'm glad Ender was able to feel some sort of relief to find the queen back on the planet, and the potential to repopulate the species that he destroyed. Hopefully it doesn't happen again.

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Postby SaintDrogo » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:17 pm

If you enjoyed Ender's Game that much, you should definitely read the rest of the series. Ender's Game is just the tip of a huge iceberg of awesomeness.

Also, if you're a fan of Card's style and haven't already read any of his other works, I recommend the Alvin Maker series.

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Postby Jezebel » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:12 pm

Having just finished Ender's Game, I'm kinda disappointed by the way he finds the Hive Queen. It seems to me like a cop-out. It's as if Card is saying "yeah, he did all this heavy s***, but everything's good, because even though he destroyed every single bugger everywhere, there's still one, and they knew what was going to happen." It's all happiness and flowers where the ending could have been much more powerful and left Ender a tortured soul, wracked by the knowledge of what he did, and how he can't take it back.
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Postby eriador » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:17 pm

Hmmm. I never really thought of it that way... It seems to me that that ties into Christian theology, in that there's always a chance for redemption, no matter what you did wrong. However, I agree that OSC's Deus Ex Machina is silly and kinda annoying.

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Postby Black Dove » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:30 pm

It's all happiness and flowers where the ending could have been much more powerful and left Ender a tortured soul, wracked by the knowledge of what he did, and how he can't take it back.
Minor spoilors for Speaker for the Dead:

I believe that Ender needed to experience the memories of the Hive Queen in order to fully understand the nature of the act. You will find that Ender's soul in very tortured in the sequel, as humanity's view of Ender turns from savior to Xenocide because of The Hive Queen. Ender welcomes the change in opinion, even embraces it occasionally. The thing that hurts him the most is that sole survivor of the Xenocide, the Hive Queen, doesn't blame Ender but forgives him. If Ender's Game is Ender's fall and descent from humanity, then Speaker for the Dead is his return and redemption. I strongly recommend reading the rest of the Speaker series, but be warned that the novels are a highly different style of science fiction.
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Postby eriador » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:49 pm

Oooh... that's a good point. However, I do think that, at least from the perspective of EG, the discovery of the hive queen is that "happy happy yay yay" kinda thing.

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Postby SaintDrogo » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:13 pm

While I agree that after Ender's Game, the series takes a definite turn for the more "mystical," I think it was too abrupt a change in the way he found the hive queen. Something like that, I believe, would've sat better on the mind after we learned about (like above, spoilers) how the hive queen reached out and found him through the mind game, ie, proto-Jane (as we learned in Shadow of the Giant). THEN it would've seemed more likely to me. But when I read it I was all like "Oh, okay. Alien threat, war, children's crusade, corruption, we're working towards closure... wait. This reads like a cartoon."
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Postby eriador » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:18 pm

Exactlly. Because of the abrupt style change between EG and SFTD, I'd say it would be better to end EG with the Xenocide, and then have him discover the queen in speaker. Oh well. Not a whole lot I can do about it.

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Postby Jezebel » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:19 pm

I agree that it reads like a cartoon. Though I haven't read the next book, I think that Eriador's right about cutting it off and leaving the ending dark.
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Postby SaintDrogo » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:17 pm

To be fair, if any of us could fix these types of things, I'd have started with Boromir dying in Fellowship of the Ring. Bitches. He could've lived for at least another half hour.
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Postby Jezebel » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:10 pm

I guess it's all a matter of taste then :)
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Postby zeroguy » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:22 am

Having just finished Ender's Game, I'm kinda disappointed by the way he finds the Hive Queen. It seems to me like a cop-out.
Hoo boy, you're not going to like the Shadow series if you thought that was a copout. ;)
It's as if Card is saying "yeah, he did all this heavy s***, but everything's good, because even though he destroyed every single bugger everywhere, there's still one, and they knew what was going to happen." It's all happiness and flowers where the ending could have been much more powerful and left Ender a tortured soul, wracked by the knowledge of what he did, and how he can't take it back.
I never really thought about this with regards to EG before, but after reading a bit of OSC's works, I'm coming to realize that I just don't like his endings. There's always an extra section that just feels like it doesn't need to be there. Wyrms, Treason, and Songmaster all felt this way to me; possibly others I'm not thinking of.

His series seem better, but EG was originally standalone (it wasn't until later that the idea for the sequels came, wasn't it?), and it reminds me of many of his other standalone novels. If he had known there would have been sequels, that last section probably wouldn't have been there.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:54 am

I can't say that I understand where any of you are coming from with the EG ending.

Jezebel,

Yes the Buggers knew what was going to happen. They found Ender through the mind game and knew they had met their match. Fight and die or run and be hunted were the buggers only options. They choose to faint extinction for a chance of survival for the speices. They hoped Ender were come to know them and save them. It seemed logical to put the hive queen in the mind game because that is how they found him in the first place. From your postings, I am unsure if you read passed EG so I'll stop there. But Ender = a very tortured soul.

Eri,

There are a couple of things wrong with stopping with the xenocide. First it would be a too abrupt ending. Ender finally sticks it to the teachers by blowing up the planet, oh wait, it was real. Ender you just killed an entire race of alien beings. It ends there? What happened on earth? What happened to Ender? Maybe you explain that Peter becomes Hegemon, you almost have to. Otherwise, what is the point of all the Locke/Demo crap. But Ender can't write the Hive Queen and the Hegemon yet, because he hasn't found the hive queen. Which brings me to my next point. It would totally throw off the begining of Speaker (SftD spoilers ahead - be warned). The end of EG sets up the begining of SftD. Without the EG ending, the end of EG has to be plopped on the begining of SftD. I love the begining of SftD. Being thrown into a new story, on a new planet, with new characters and a new alien race. Then Ender, Jane and Hive Queen slowly get intertwined into the new story. Adding to the begining of SftD completely messes up the pacing of the book.

SD,
I don't think that there is closure without finding the hive queen. The closure point is The Hive Queen and the Hegemon. Cartoon? Never even entered my mind.

Zero,
I believe that SftD was also going to be a stand alone novel or, at the very least, the start of its own series. I remember reading somewhere(possibly the intro to SftD) that OSC intially had the idea for the SftD novel and later came to the conclusion to set that novel in the Enderverse.

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Postby KennEnder » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:26 am

Zero,
I believe that SftD was also going to be a stand alone novel or, at the very least, the start of its own series. I remember reading somewhere(possibly the intro to SftD) that OSC intially had the idea for the SftD novel and later came to the conclusion to set that novel in the Enderverse.
This is exactly what I have read, too, and OSC has actually related that story at his book signings, too. In fact, he had already written the short story for EG and was looking for a way to start SftD (as a standalone) when it occurred to him that he could effectively merge the two "unrelated" stories.
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Postby Luet » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:38 am

His series seem better, but EG was originally standalone (it wasn't until later that the idea for the sequels came, wasn't it?), and it reminds me of many of his other standalone novels. If he had known there would have been sequels, that last section probably wouldn't have been there.
Actually, you have it a little backwards. He wrote the original EG short story first with no plans to expand it. Years later he developed the idea for the Speaker/Xenocide/CotM series but it had no connection with Ender. He then had the idea to make Ender (the child from his short story) the main character in that series. That required that he expand the short story into a novel. Thus, he DID have the entire series in mind when he wrote the EG novel and he put in that bit at the end to lead into Speaker. Another bit of trivia, it was originally supposed to be a trilogy but Xeno was so ridiculously long that it had to be split into two (Xeno/CotM).
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Postby SaintDrogo » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:08 am

Then I won't say cartoon, I'll say somewhat-irrelevant family special. Ender and this new, shiny, unattached and uncomplicated character have some throwaway conversation, a little bonding, explore worlds we don't have the chance or inclination to be interested in, then there's all this mystical, larger-than-life, deja-vu-type fantasy world. I half expected a muppettish race of wolf people to welcome them. But of course it's just that previously-unmentioned-foresight-endowed alien race who's been working this out for a LONG time that built it. As it is, it seems like at that point we stumble on to the "real" and important story, which I like way way less than the one in battle school.

Which isn't to say I don't like the rest of the series. I love them. Completely. But, to be fair, they left the crappy end of EG out of those for good reason. Don't you think it's a little weird that this open and expressive man never mentions to all these people this wonderfully weird and bizarrely trippy thing that happened to him once? He's never fallen into a living version of a game or anything after that. And I know you'll say he couldn't tell about the queen, but he didn't relate the story even after they knew about it.
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Postby eriador » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:10 am

You have a point Eddie.

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Postby Jezebel » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm

His series seem better, but EG was originally standalone (it wasn't until later that the idea for the sequels came, wasn't it?), and it reminds me of many of his other standalone novels. If he had known there would have been sequels, that last section probably wouldn't have been there.
Well that's comforting. I can't wait to start in on the rest of the series.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:33 pm

Ender and this new, shiny, unattached and uncomplicated character have some throwaway conversation, a little bonding, explore worlds we don't have the chance or inclination to be interested in, then there's all this mystical, larger-than-life, deja-vu-type fantasy world.
Either I am a little mixed up or you are a little mixed up, because I don't remember Jane until SftD.
I half expected a muppettish race of wolf people to welcome them. But of course it's just that previously-unmentioned-foresight-endowed alien race who's been working this out for a LONG time that built it.
How would you like the queen to be found? They found him through the mind game. Obviously they couldn't just fly up to him and say "Here's an egg to save our race because you're going to kill us." How should it have happened?
As it is, it seems like at that point we stumble on to the "real" and important story, which I like way way less than the one in battle school.
Its not the real story, it is just a different story. Again I'm saying, you couldn't just plop this part at the begining of Speaker.
Don't you think it's a little weird that this open and expressive man never mentions to all these people this wonderfully weird and bizarrely trippy thing that happened to him once? He's never fallen into a living version of a game or anything after that. And I know you'll say he couldn't tell about the queen, but he didn't relate the story even after they knew about it.
To the same point, when does he ever talk about his experience at battle school? Even the most expressive person keeps somethings to themself. Not to mention, after it was known that he had the hive queen, Ender certainly had a lot on his mind. Then he had Young Val and Peter running around. It was kind of hectic not really much time to stop and express himself. Not to mention that his wife essentially left him in the mean time.

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Postby Xenofreak » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:22 pm

You rock eddie

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Postby wigginboy » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:06 pm

I first discovered EG by way of Audiobook at Air Cadet training in 2003. I heard the story from about the point where Ender is transferred into Rose de Nose's army. It immediately intrigued me, especially when he took command of the new Dragon Army because on my course I was in Dragonfly flight and it was a newly named flight. After camp I went to chapters and looked for the book but I didnt know the author's name so it was fruitless, however I did find it at my school library upon returning home. I read it cover to cover in two days and found it extremely moving. I was thinking, Jesus, how could they do this to this poor kid while simultaneously knowing it was necessary. I found the backstory of Peter and Val's exploits on the nets interesting as well . At the end, when Ender finds the Hive Queen, i was almost in tears because i knew that all hope for the Buggers wasnt lost. Ender and the world thought he had wiped them out when in reality there was one left. I couldn't wait for the next book, which my library didnt have. Luckily i moved to Red Deer a month later and the library had all the books in the Speaker series, as well as ES. I have been moved very much by the entire series. It has in a small way shaped my life. I try to be respectful of things now, especially those that are different because I never know if one of those things is going to become extinct. Or vice versa, I dont know if one of those things is going to become militant and try to destroy me. I try to understand all things before doing anything with or about them. anyway, i talk too much.

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Postby keats » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:36 am

Having just finished Ender's Game, I'm kinda disappointed by the way he finds the Hive Queen. It seems to me like a cop-out. It's as if Card is saying "yeah, he did all this heavy s***, but everything's good, because even though he destroyed every single bugger everywhere, there's still one, and they knew what was going to happen." It's all happiness and flowers where the ending could have been much more powerful and left Ender a tortured soul, wracked by the knowledge of what he did, and how he can't take it back.
Yeah, all happiness and flowers to villainize yourself to the entire planet and then leave earth forever without hope of return within the lifetime of anyone you know.

Excellent analysis. *boggle*
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