What's up with Shadows?

Drfuji · Postby **Drfuji** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:25 pm

Hey,

I just finished the last book in the series and I was wondering, what's up with a lot of the titles having 'Shadow' in it? (ie Shadow of the Giant, Ender's Shadow, Shadow Puppets)

Sorry for this stupid question :p

neo-dragon · Postby **neo-dragon** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:50 pm

The first Shadow book was about Bean being in Ender's shadow, and Card just decided to keep that theme in naming the books, I suppose. Having a common title element also makes it easy to tell which books in the saga focus on Bean's story has opposed to Ender's. In fact, the Bean-centric novels are commonly referred to as the Shadow books.

SenderMage · Postby **SenderMage** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:56 am

I actually love the titles, as they all refer to the characters rather aptly.
Ender's Shadow = Bean
Shadow of the Hegemon = Still Bean
Shadow Puppets = Bean and Petra (Puppets of Achilles)
Shadow of the Giant = Petra

That's how I see it anyway. This is all speculation.

neo-dragon · Postby **neo-dragon** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:43 pm

I think that "Shadow Puppets" and "Shadow of the Giant" can refer to multiple characters. For instance, in SP Peter is manipulated by Achilles as well, making him something of a puppet. In SotG, all of the other battleschool grads are in Bean's shadow since with Ender gone he's considered to be the unbeatable one.

Me Vexat Pede · Postby **Me Vexat Pede** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:09 am

The titles also have to do with what the publisher thinks will sell. I read (and i wish i could site it) that OSC wanted to name ES "Urchin," but the publisher wanted a more obvious connection to EG... whatever

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Fri May 01, 2009 4:38 pm

I actually love the titles, as they all refer to the characters rather aptly.
Ender's Shadow = Bean
Shadow of the Hegemon = Still Bean
Shadow Puppets = Bean and Petra (Puppets of Achilles)
Shadow of the Giant = Petra

That's how I see it anyway. This is all speculation.

I see it-

Ender's Shadow= Bean in Ender's
Shadow of the Hegemon= Bean in Peter's
Shadow Puppets=Bean and Petra (i agree with you on this, except it was Peter too.)
Shadow of the Giant= Everyone in Bean's

I love the titles too (and the actual books even if some other people on this site don't agree).

Jebus · Postby **Jebus** » Sun May 03, 2009 7:29 pm

Guys, stop messing around with drfuji.

drfuji, the Shadow series gets it's title from OSC's love of Sonic the Hedgehog's rival, Shadow. If you read the books carefully you will find other allusions to the Sonic games.

^Peter · Postby **^Peter** » Mon May 04, 2009 8:28 am

That makes so much sense! I never noticed references to Shadow the Hedgehog before. But, yeah Jeebs, I totally see it now. And 'The enemy's gate is down' obviously refers to the way Sonic often has to loop upside down to get to the finish line. All of the space ships in Enderverse are a mockery of Dr. Eggman's many gizmos and robots. Thanks!

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:47 pm

Wow. I did not expect that. Well, you guys can think whatever you like. Wow.

neo-dragon · Postby **neo-dragon** » Mon May 04, 2009 5:08 pm

"Shadow of the Hegemon"

"Shadow the Hedgehog"

OSC didn't even try to be subtle about it...

^Peter · Postby **^Peter** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:38 am

But of course. Subtlety was never Card's strong point. Half of Enderverse screams, "monogamy!"

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:15 pm

Is there anything wrong with monogamy? I being a Catholic think its good.

Jebus · Postby **Jebus** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:46 pm

Hah, em, Jeesh_girl, the Catholic church doesn't oppose polygamy. I should know, I'm from Ireland and we're s Catholic as they come, and everybody is doing everybody over here.

Syphon the Sun · Postby **Syphon the Sun** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:25 pm

Can I just say I find it terribly funny everyone keep bashing a mormon for emphasizing the value of monogamous relationships?

(Yes, I know the Mormon church hasn't officially supported polygamy for more than a century [much longer than any significant portion of Mormons ever practiced it] and has excommunicated polygamists for nearly as long, but everyone knows the myth that all or most Mormons have mutiple wives, so it's still funny.)

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:14 pm

I don't think I said that my church opposes it. I just said I thought it was better to be married before you had sex and went down that road.

how did we get so off topic?

Jebus · Postby **Jebus** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:19 pm

Ok, well as long as we're agreed that the Catholic church supports polygamy then I think we can return to the original topic.

^Peter · Postby **^Peter** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:39 pm

Oh, my bad. I don't oppose monogamy, I agree with it. It's just that it'd be nice if things like Sonic references could be more subtle.

And as for getting off topic... that's my fault. Sorry!

To get back on topic, I expect that "Shadows in Flight" refers to Bean and his kids, or his kids alone at least. (If that still is the title when it gets published, if it ever gets published)

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:03 pm

Oh, my bad. I don't oppose monogamy, I agree with it. It's just that it'd be nice if things like Sonic references could be more subtle.

And as for getting off topic... that's my fault. Sorry!
To get back on topic, I expect that "Shadows in Flight" refers to Bean and his kids, or his kids alone at least. (If that still is the title when it gets published, if it ever gets published)

I won't say what I was going to say, cause I learned a little moral lesson from someone I don't even know the other day, so I came up with something else.

I totally agree that It was probably Bean and children. Though I never thought of that. I am so STUPID!!!!!!

^Peter · Postby **^Peter** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:08 pm

I'm sorry, was that sarcasm?

The only stoopid ones here are those who flame.

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:37 pm

No I wasn't being sarcastic if you were talking to me.

And did you just call me stoopid?!

^Peter · Postby **^Peter** » Sat May 09, 2009 6:01 pm

Do you start flamewars?

sheesh, jeesh, stop trying to pick a fight

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Sat May 09, 2009 7:50 pm

Yup. I am an expert at starting flamewars. I pity those who brave my wrath. BTW did you mean to rhyme sheesh and jeesh, cause in other posts you called me jeesh_girl.

Eskarina · Postby **Eskarina** » Sun May 10, 2009 3:39 am

Please. Can you take this to PMs? I don't think it has any relevance to the topic.

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Sun May 10, 2009 9:30 am

Totally, Eskarina

I still don't think Shadow of the Hegemon has anything to to with Shadow the Hedgehog.

Syphon the Sun · Postby **Syphon the Sun** » Sun May 10, 2009 7:49 pm

You're still wrong, then, Jeesh.

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:14 pm

How do you know that? Did you contact OSC and ask him?

^Peter · Postby **^Peter** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:09 pm

That makes me wonder... Does Mr. Card have a pweb account? Does he secretly check in and discreetly post story and plot line ideas? Is he reading these very posts, at this very moment!?

Syphon the Sun · Postby **Syphon the Sun** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:12 pm

Scott doesn't have an account, but his wife Kristine had one before Pweb II crashed. Of course, she posted a total of maybe two times, but still.

He does post on his own message board over at Hatrack, though.

Plus, I think Jebus would know. He's Uncle Orson's son Geoffrey, I think.

Mich · Postby **Mich** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:33 pm

Plus, I think Jebus would know. He's Uncle Orson's son Geoffrey, I think.

Dude, what are you talking about? Scott commonly signed in here under the name Eriador!

^Peter · Postby **^Peter** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:39 pm

Okay... now I'm confused. Who's joking, who's serious, are all you all just joking?, because I'm sensing a lot of sarcasm here. Maybe I should start a thread titled, "Is OSC a pweb-er?"

Unless you all can stop messing with a very confused n00b.

Jebus · Postby **Jebus** » Mon May 11, 2009 6:33 pm

Sorry Peter^, we kind of like to joke around on this site a lot. Mich is especially notorious for it. OSC is my dad, and no he's not a Pwebber, he thinks this place is too confusing. As Syphon said, that is how I knew about his Sonic obsession.

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:15 pm

Hey ^Peter, I think everyone jokes or is serious at times, and this site is no exception. You're probably right to be confused, but I wouldn't say that. Last time I asked someone if they were being sarcastic (eh Syphon) I got my head bitten off. I was running around my house without a head for a while. I won't even get started about school...

Jebus : Is OSC really your father? I never knew that.

This site is confusing.

Syphon the Sun · Postby **Syphon the Sun** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:51 pm

Last time I asked someone if they were being sarcastic (eh Syphon) I got my head bitten off.

Actually, you got your panties in a twist because I responded to somebody else and you insisted on pretending I was talking to you, despite your own admission that nothing I said related to your posts.

Believe it or not, you're not the center of the Pweb universe and people can (and do!) reply to other people. If you see a reply that doesn't relate to anything you've said, but relates very specifically to something another person has said, I'd imagine the deduction skills necessary to determine it wasn't meant for you would be quite minimal.

I didn't "bite your head off" because my post wasn't directed towards you, which I thought was facially obvious and later specifically noted. After you pretended it was directed towards you, I very clearly told you it wasn't and that I thought it was quite obvious I never intended it to be a reply to you. If your problem with my post (where you think I "bit your head off") is that I was a mean old man and said I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't responding to you, that's fine, but don't pretend it was because you asked a simple question.

If you're going to whine about something, at least have the courtesy to whine about something that actually happened.

Jeesh_girl15 · Postby **Jeesh_girl15** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:25 pm

Yup. You just bit my head off. I can complain about that can't i

Syphon the Sun · Postby **Syphon the Sun** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:37 pm

You can complain about whatever you want, of course. You can complain about the summer heat, even, and pretend I'm the cause of that, too, if it makes you feel better. Of course, having the ability to complain about make-believe scenarios doesn't quite mean your account is true, but if you want to pretend I'm furious and am replying in some kind of majestic anger, have at it.

I wasn't really aware that I turned all green and muscular.

What's up with Shadows?

What's up with Shadows?

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