Reaction to the first time reading of Ender's Game

[dinsm010]

So I read Ender's Game for the first time this past week and I have to admit that I was impressed by what was in it. I'm a huge video game freak, which may be why I was so amused/entertained by Ender and his fantasy games in the game room.

I had a few questions to bring up, hoping to get a few opinions on.
Has anyone ever taken into consideration what Ender may have felt in terms of deceit or the like when realizing the video games were actually real battles?
Also, does anyone think that Ender attempts to "right" what he has done wrong out of concern for the aliens, or out of his own guilt?

Overall, I enjoyed the book and plan on picking up the next in the series as soon as possible!

[neo-dragon]

Yes, I think that the feeling of deceit is part of what made the whole thing so hard for him to bear, and I think that both his guilt and his genuine desire to restore a noble race motivated him to look for a new home for the last Hive Queen.

Welcome to Pweb.

[Eddie Pinz]

I think betrayal is a better word for what he felt. Everything that was done was an intricate plan to get him to that point. Even when he thought he was resisting, he did exactly what they wanted.

As for the guilt, he absolutely felt it. Probably not only for what he did for to the buggers but also what he put his friends through. But he definitely has a noble desire, as neo said, to restore the race. I would site examples, but obviously you haven't gotten that far yet. So, I will hold off.

But welcome to Pweb. Have a glass of lime-aid as a welcome present. (I think I was in the Canadian Alliance at one point) Also, dinsm, watch what threads you wander into in this section of the forum, sometimes spoilers just fly as most people that come to this section have read all the books. So, be careful if you don't want to know what happens next.

[Darth Petra]

I think it was a bit of both. Guilt for destroying a whole planet, and wanted to make it right. I think it was more than guilt though. Because what he wanted most was not to be like Peter. And, in destroying a whole race of aliens, he had become exactly what he didn't want to become. But, being the compassionate kid he was, he wanted to save the buggers. Because they were destroyed senselessly- they weren't really a threat.
It was his desire to restore the species- not just because of his own guilt, but because of his compassion for the race he destroyed.

[Curk0002]

As I read Ender's Game I couldn't believe how much hatred Peter had toward Ender even as a child. He was so manipulative than Valentine had to shield Ender from Peter's ruthlessness. It seems that Valentine was Ender's rock throughout his battle with Peter the whole time. I think that the large part of Peter's jealousy has to deal with his own inadequacy's of not being chosen the way that Ender was. After all, Peter was the older brother and in his eyes it was him that should have been chosen. Overall I did like the book, I just thought that Ender was so young when he was chosen and taken from his home.

[Gravity Defier]

Welcome.

I hesitate to agree with your classifying Peter's actions as being motivated by hatred. I think I can safely agree with you on feelings of jealousy and inadequacy and I'll add that he was cruel on top of being passionate to a vicious degree. But I think he truly loved Ender as best as he could, in his own way when all was said and done.

[Janus%TheDoorman]

Personally, I've always thought Peter and Valentine were the "weakest links" in EG. Their characters were just too unbelievable, too obviously foils for Ender for me to really get interested in them.

Truthfully, both Peter and Valentine seemed, frankly... better than Ender. Wheras Ender spent his time basically being tugged around by the adults in his life, fighting back only out of sheer desperation, Peter masterminded a takeover of Earth from his back yard, and Valentine turned into the world's greatest essayist at age 14. Maybe it's partly because I first read EG when the actual internet was hitting its stride, and despite OSC's relatively accurate predictions about the net, two children masquerading as political theorists of the highest degree just seemed impossible.

As for Peter's hatred, I think a large part of it was simply in Ender's mind. Peter was obviously a little unhinged as a kid, but I seriously doubt he'd ever have tried to kill Ender, as Ender himself seemed to think. The problem is that Ender's is the only perspective we're ever given on Peter until the Shadow series somewhat smoothed him over, and Peter seemed almost unequivocally evil in EG, to the point that the ending revelations about his formation of the FPE seemed farcical.

Maybe I should read EG again, but looking back now, those two's sections in the book were definitely my least favorite elements.

[Gravity Defier]

The problem is that Ender's is the only perspective we're ever given on Peter until the Shadow series somewhat smoothed him over

Technically not true. Ender wasn't around to witness the parts where Peter and Valentine begin working together on the nets; we're given her perspective. Admittingly, it's also not the best view of him...

Truthfully, both Peter and Valentine seemed, frankly... better than Ender. Wheras Ender spent his time basically being tugged around by the adults in his life, fighting back only out of sheer desperation, Peter masterminded a takeover of Earth from his back yard, and Valentine turned into the world's greatest essayist at age 14.

Because Valentine wasn't persuaded/pushed into that essay writing by Peter. I'm not trying to lessen her writing talents or her intelligence but she was hardly better than Ender because she agreed to do it and mastered the skill of persuasive, political writing. All claims to the contrary, she's as much a puppet as Ender is in my oh so humble opinion. Peter also wasn't better than Ender; simply more ambitious.

[zeroguy]

Personally, I've always thought Peter and Valentine were the "weakest links" in EG. Their characters were just too unbelievable, too obviously foils for Ender for me to really get interested in them.

Looking through EG for passeges recently, I kinda got this feeling, too. It bothers me that I don't remember thinking that when I was reading EG at the time, though... I should probably just re-read, as well.

despite OSC's relatively accurate predictions about the net

I still maintain that the 'net existed when EG was written, and it looked a lot more like EG had it than it does today, making these predictions less impressive. But I get the feeling people are going to get tired of me saying that really fast...

As for Peter's hatred, I think a large part of it was simply in Ender's mind. Peter was obviously a little unhinged as a kid, but I seriously doubt he'd ever have tried to kill Ender, as Ender himself seemed to think.

The perspective we're given seems really scewed, but what if it's not? Sometimes people start to become what they pretend, but I would like to think that Peter is better/smarter than that.

...I think it would make a more interesting story if Peter really was that deranged, oddly enough, even if I don't think that's how he actually is.

[UnnDunn]

The thing that irked me about Peter and Valentine in EG wasn't necessarily their characters themselves; it was their parents, especially after reading their exploits in Shadow.

The idea that John Paul and Theresa knew all about what Peter and Val were doing and yet they did nothing... that didn't sit well with me. They saw the anguish Peter was going through about feeling inferior to Ender; they saw how thoroughly Peter manipulated and controlled Valentine (at least until she fought back and left). And yet, they managed to stay completely dumb about it all until Bean showed up at their door.

After reading how similar deception would almost tear the Riberao family apart, it was kinda disappointing that such themes weren't explored further in the Wiggin family.

[billmUMD]

disnm010-

I also recently just read Ender's game for the first time...I have to say I didn't really think about it til now but probably the reason why I was so interested in this book was because I am a huge video game freak as well and have been since I was a small child. That being said it would be pretty sweet if I could use my video game skills to run an entire military...although I would probably end up feeling like Ender if I had to go through what he did.

To answer your question about whether or not Ender did it to right his wrong or simply out of his own guilt...i think it was a little bit of both. I think one of the main underlying themes in this novel is Ender's ability to empathize with his enemies. Once he figured out what he had done he almost felt that pain that they went through. Because he felt their pain he was probably overwhelmed with guilt about what he had done. This is a unique trait that not too many people out there possess which is why it made him such an efficient killer...because he could easily place himself in the shoes of his enemies. But at the same time this could be seen as a weakness because Ender almost always felt terrible after he had done something to someone...as we can see when he ends up killing the other two boys over a fight.

[wigginboy]

I still maintain that the 'net existed when EG was written, and it looked a lot more like EG had it than it does today, making these predictions less impressive. But I get the feeling people are going to get tired of me saying that really fast...

Well, technically yes, there was a computer network up and running at the time that EG was written, but not the current incarnation of the internet and certainly not the WWW . The first incarnation of a major computer network was when the US government created ARPA in 1958. They began running TCP/IP WAN in 1983 and the internet took off from there. The WWW was was invented in 1989 by Tim Berners-Lee at CERN.

Off topic I know, but it does make Card's apparent foreshadowing seem a little less genuine.

[UnnDunn]

I still maintain that the 'net existed when EG was written, and it looked a lot more like EG had it than it does today, making these predictions less impressive. But I get the feeling people are going to get tired of me saying that really fast...

Isn't that the way with many sci-fi writers? That their apparent "predictions" about future technologies are merely extrapolations of then-current emerging technologies?

[zeroguy]

Well, technically yes, there was a computer network up and running at the time that EG was written, but not the current incarnation of the internet and certainly not the WWW .

Correct. I said OSC's network more represents the internet of that era than the current one. So... it follows that I was implying the the old network differs from our current one.

The first incarnation of a major computer network was when the US government created ARPA in 1958. They began running TCP/IP WAN in 1983 and the internet took off from there. The WWW was was invented in 1989 by Tim Berners-Lee at CERN.

These dates' seeming lack of relevance is confusing. ARPA may have been created then, but the ARPAnet idea wasn't even conceived until the 60s, I think. I don't see what IP has to do with this.... And I think your date for WWW is off; off the top of my head I'm pretty sure that was 90 or 91.

Edit: Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by "invented". Wikipedia sez he came up with the idea in 89, but I don't think any implementation existed until 90, and his page wasn't public until 91. Or something like that.

[MaryOutside]

Hello, Philoticweb. I'm new here, but not new to the Ender saga.

I think that Peter and Valentine can't be construed as "better" or "worse" than Ender mainly because they aren't the focal point of the novel. Granted, their characters become much more dynamic as the books progress, yes. However, I think that they weren't facing nearly as challenging an emotional and moral journey as Ender was. Peter and Valentine were left to make their own decisions, yes...and in proper Wiggin fashion excell in them, but I don't agree that this makes them "better" characters. If anything, there is less dynamicism, less development because they only have themselves to bounce their dillemas off of. Ender, however, because he is free from the burden of choosing his life path, is faced with far more compelling ethical decisions, and we can explore deeper issues between the association of morality and causation through his struggle than we can between Val and Peter.

NOT to say, however, that their characters are unimportant or flat. Card could never have brought them back in Xenocide if they were trifles.

Okay, thanks. I never get to talk about Ender in my everyday life because no one knows what I'm talking about.

[Azarel]

The first time I read Ender's Game, I didn't read anything else for 7 years.

--
I was 15 I think, I bought it in a jumble sale for maybe 20pence.

[Jamie1]

I just finished Enders Game last night. I enjoyed the book very much. I read it in two days...
I think that there are so many references to the real world and our current "war" going on between the United States and the third world countries. What ender is feeling about what he has done or did do to the Buggers and their lives makes me feel that what the soilders and what the troops over in the other countries feel like. Ender felt as if he was forced or tricked into killing and fightin gin the war. Isn't that what they do to many of the tropps or people that volunteer to fight in the army, navy, or any other military service? I am not saying that all of the soilders that are in the war or that are fighting do not want to be fighting or feel that they have been tricked into fighting, but I believe that there are def some of them out there just as Ender felt compared to Bean, Dink, and Petra. They all felt they had done a good service while Ender felt horribel about it. I think that many people are tricked into fighting for the country because they do nto feel that they have anywhere else to turn to. They may not have the support in order to go to college and they may not have the ability or the experience to find a good paying job. So the service seems like a great alternative due to the money a soldier will received once they are released. Ender wasn't looking for money, but when Graff came and got him, they made it seem as if he had no other choice. that this is what he was meant to do. This is what will make him feel worthy. That if he stays on Earth there will be no point to his life. I think that much of what Ender wen through and the after effects after the war is what many soldiers and adults deal with in the present.

[arod07]

This isn't my first time reading Enders Game, however it was just as exciting and intriguing as the first. I am supposed to go over my reaction to the book, an i feel like starting with todays youth. I know everyone has heard the saying that " the children are our future". EG takes this to a new level. I feel like todays youth are taking an more active role in the future of not only themselves but their community as a whole. This is a very interesting topic but i am more interested in the war with an enemy that is not completely understood. This is exactly how i feel with our current war in Iraq. This is a touchy subject so i rather not go all that in depth but i welcome all debate and discussion.

[smit1578]

After just finishing reading Ender’s Game for the first time, I’m not enthralled with the novel. However, I’ve found that the science fiction genre has been a bit more challenging for me to read, as it doesn’t really hold my attention. With Ender’s Game, I think it’s possible that I may have enjoyed this more at a younger age, wherein I would have used my imagination a bit more, and put myself in the story. Also, I’ve really never been a big fan of video games or action/ adventure books or movies.
With that said, I have to agree with Janus the Doorman’s post about Peter and Valentine seeming “better” than Ender. I have not read any of the other novels by OSC, but I have to say that I found the side plot with Peter and Valentine to be more entertaining, and would make for a better novel in my opinion. Maybe the author addresses some of those same topics in other novels, I’m not sure. World domination by the oldest sibling, second sibling becomes influential writer and third sibling becomes the world’s only hope for defeating the Buggers… sounds impressive, but for me personally, I was less interested in all of the action details. Maybe I did only a surface reading though, and am not delving into it enough…

[UnnDunn]

After just finishing reading Ender’s Game for the first time, I’m not enthralled with the novel. However, I’ve found that the science fiction genre has been a bit more challenging for me to read, as it doesn’t really hold my attention. With Ender’s Game, I think it’s possible that I may have enjoyed this more at a younger age, wherein I would have used my imagination a bit more, and put myself in the story. Also, I’ve really never been a big fan of video games or action/ adventure books or movies.
With that said, I have to agree with Janus the Doorman’s post about Peter and Valentine seeming “better” than Ender. I have not read any of the other novels by OSC, but I have to say that I found the side plot with Peter and Valentine to be more entertaining, and would make for a better novel in my opinion. Maybe the author addresses some of those same topics in other novels, I’m not sure. World domination by the oldest sibling, second sibling becomes influential writer and third sibling becomes the world’s only hope for defeating the Buggers… sounds impressive, but for me personally, I was less interested in all of the action details. Maybe I did only a surface reading though, and am not delving into it enough…

I think you should go read Shadow Puppets, Shadow of the Hegemon and Shadow of the Giant.

[Finith]

I still read all of the books in the series at least once a year. I have never figured out what it is exactly about them since I don't really like science fiction, or fiction in general, but something about those books is just completely enamering.

Here's to being really really excited about ender in exile!