The best wiggin

Discuss all things pertaining to the EnderVerse milieu.

who do you like more?

Peter Wiggin (Locke) the hegemon of earth
35
40%
Valentine Wiggin (Demosthenes)
10
11%
Andrew Wiggin (ender) the speaker of the dead
42
48%
 
Total votes: 87

TerresaWiggin
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Re: The best wiggin

Postby TerresaWiggin » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:14 am

I most admire Valentine because of her sacrifice for Ender.

Sharpe
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Re: The best wiggin

Postby Sharpe » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:34 pm

Defiantly Ender. I fell in love with the books because if fell in love with him.

Reading the Shadow books following Peter show that he is the much more relateble character with character flaws, he can't match Ender. As my Mum pointed out about Ender, "He's a saint" or a christ figure. He is basically presented as being morally unblemished.

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Re: The best wiggin

Postby dpito » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:12 am

I've only seen New Peter discussed in a couple of posts. I know we only meet him it the last few chapters of CotM, but he is basically Ender without the baggage. He handles (manipulates) Admiral Lands and Quara precisely as I imagine an engaged Ender would. Upon finishing CotM, I was most interested in the future of New Peter and what he could accomplish. I was very disappointed to learn that Shadows Alive will focus on Bean's decendants. I would be much more interested in reading about the Peter/Wang Mu/Miro/Jane quartet than the Bean/Petra family. I cannot believe that the latter could more effectively reform Starways Congress (SC) and deal with the Descoladores than could the former, nor do I believe that New Peter had the raw ambition that Old Peter had. Old Peter wanted power first, and realized later that being an agent of peace was the best means to that end. New Peter wanted the same thing that Ender wanted throughout the SftD series: The reform (or dismantling, if necessary) of SC and the assumption that a new alien species (when not a direct threat anymore) was ramen, not varelse. So my vote for favorite Wiggin is New Peter.
However, if the vote is confined to the "original" three, my vote goes to Val. All three were tools of others at some point in their lives, but Val least of all. And Val was the most committed to sacrificing her personal life for the sake of the Human, Pequenino, and Hive Queen races. Old Peter was dead, Ender disconnected for the sake of that hag Novinha (not a big fan of her, btw); only Val would continue to have a real life.

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Re: The best wiggin

Postby Wang Mu » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:15 pm

Peter 100%.

After Ender's Game, Andrew (Ender) became a peacemaker and lived the rest of his life in shame. Peter, he's my type of guy. Now mind you I'm only half way through Shadow of the Hegemon, so that might change.

I didn't even think Valentine should have been on this poll. Lol.

-Wang Mu
~Si Wang-mu~

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Re: The best wiggin

Postby BenMcLean » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:56 pm

Why no option for John-Paul?

I love the way he totally bamboozled Graff and romantically courted Teresa.

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Re: The best wiggin

Postby thebelgian » Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:45 am

Between Ender, Valentine, and Peter, it can easily be said that the worst person among them was Peter. In Ender's Game he didn't have the same capacity for compassion that Ender or Valentine had, but That is perhaps not a bad thing.


Valentine was compassionate, but she was not ambitious enough to attempt anything truly revolutionary even though she had a brain far superior to most of her peers. She acted as a support character for Peter when she wrote as Demosthenes, allowing him to grow up into his Locke identity before he would have to take on the world by himself, but then she earth in obscurity. She spent the rest of her life cataloging the achievements of humanity up to Ender's present, and then wrote political essays that nudged society in one way or another. Her influence may have been incredible, but the method by which she did it means that the mark of her hand on her own work is practically invisible. She also supported Ender, and helped him to keep the Lucitanian Aboriginies and the Formics safe.

Andrew (Ender) had instinct for self advancement that Peter had, but he also had so much compassion inherent in himself that to act on his ambition and his instinct for self preservation caused lasting psychological injuries. His trust in others combined with an unmatched need to succeed in every battle allowed him to be manipulated into destroying the formics (which may or may not have been destroyed by humans in the long run anyway), and this combined with his horrible childhood and his killing of Bonzo and Stilson haunted him for the rest of his life. He spent the rest of his 3000 years of existence wandering space trying to atone for the deaths he caused, none of which were actually his fault, because he could not forgive himself for a failure that he wouldn't have even considered to be a failure if he hadn't been so emossin compassionate. Near the end of his life, he forged a peace between the Piggies, the Hive Queen, and the Humans of Lucitania, and he also gave one of his bodies to Jane, a 4th sentient life form. He also helped to stop the Lucitania fleet, but most of the actual work was put in by his "children" and step-children because he was too stubbornly domestic to do much else besides fixing his marriage and literally falling apart. The only thing that he ever seemed to struggle with was his relationship with Novinha and her family, and while the rest of the family seemed very much improved by Ender's intervention, Novinha was broken inside so thoroughly that Ender, unable to abandon her, forsook his place in the thick of the worlds' problems and died for it.

Peter on the other hand was originally a kind of terrible person with very little compassion and a great deal of ambition, however he worked all his life to overcome that and eventually became the Hegemon that the human race needed.He basically maneuvered humanity so that the political system would be so stable that the human race could focus on colonizing new worlds (thus getting rid of some population pressure) instead of having bloody wars to the same effect. He did this with his priorities being to maximize the power of the Hegemony and to minimize the suffering of the people of Earth. He also gave states to oppressed minorities, and refused to add to the Hegemony except by the willing participation of the citizens of the nation being taken in. These things he did not only when he was posing as a good person because he wanted to get power, but also once he had all the power that there was to have. All this, and he found the time to take care of Bean and Petra's children without being asked to do so. He simply cared for Petra, and wanted to make sure that her children were happy. All of that being said, it is important to remember what Ender said to Abra, that one should not be proud of a skill he is born with, but instead should take pride in the things that he had to work to achieve. Peter worked hard not only to achieve greatness, but also to achieve goodness. In short, Peter bit off more than he could chew, and then he chewed it.

I voted for Peter.


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