Which is better?

Discuss all things pertaining to the EnderVerse milieu.

Choose!

The Speaker series
70
65%
The Shadow series
37
35%
 
Total votes: 107

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Jebus
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Which is better?

Postby Jebus » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:34 pm

Shadow series was a load of rubbish!

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Postby v-girl » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:05 pm

personally, i am appalled that two people (so far) put the shadow series.

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Postby Gravity Defier » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:25 pm

Speaker series wins, hands down.

Some days, I pretend the Shadow series doesn't exist.
Last edited by Gravity Defier on Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Jayelle » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:44 pm

word to all y'all.
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It needs to be about 20% cooler.

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Postby Hegemon » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:08 am

speaker all the way

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Postby mr_thebrain » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:16 am

I think both are good. However, I prefer the Speaker Series. I've never been crazy about bean, and I think the whole test tube baby crawling into toilets to hide... seemed... well, like a little bit of a reach. I like Peter in the Shadow series, as well as the war stuff. I just think the Speaker series has more depth.

Anywho, that's my 2 cents.
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Postby Hegemon » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:24 am

There are some aspects of the Shadow series that just felt wrong with me. Particularly the portrayal of some of the characters.

In ES it felt almost like OSC tried too hard to make Bean look good, and because of this I found that at times he made Ender look rather weak in comparison. I know that you need to make the main character of a book look good, but it shouldn't come at the expense of an already established character.

What really bothered me was that they made Peter look like a tool in a number of the books, particularly in Shadow Puppets. Peter is supposed to basically be like the second smarter person on the planet, now that Val and Ender are gone, yet at times he looked like such a fool. Thankfully I feel that Peter was somewhat redeemed in the last book.

Like Josh, I also think that the Speaker series has more depth. I found that the characters were more endearing and that there were more emotionally powerful moments (POSSIBLE SPOILER -- although I have to say that the scene in SotG where Petra goes home and finds Peter has spent every day with her kids was very powerful). I think that the difference might be that the Shadow series is written as more of a fast paced action book, whereas the Speaker stuff was slower and more contemplative.

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Postby anonshadow » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:27 am

I can't choose, because there are different aspects in both that I like far more than the other.

For one thing, it depends on the book--I preferred ES to EG, for reasons already outlined in the other thread. It was a new perspective to a book that I loved, and I love new perspectives. I prefer Bean as a narrator to Ender, because you get a better idea of what's going on around them. I think that the writing in ES was better than that in EG. (Don't stone me.)

For that reason, I liked the Shadow series as a whole as well. We heard about the ramifications hundreds and thousands of years into the future in the Speaker series, but the Shadow series shows them happening, and I'm a sucker for backstory.

I liked many of the characters in the Shadow series more than the characters in the Speaker series--probably because EG and ES are my favorite Ender books, and most of the characters are from that. Where the Speaker series only has Ender and Valentine, the Shadow series has all the characters (minus Ender and Valentine) from my favorite Ender books. For that, they also have a little spot in my heart.

The Speaker series is better written. In a lot of ways, it's deeper. It addresses the same concerns that get addressed in the Shadow series much better, and through the eyes of an adult, not the eyes of children and teens--albeit very intelligent children and teens, children and teens nonetheless.

It has more layers, and it has more complexities. You get to see how it all ends. You get to see what the reaction to Ender is later, and how the hero and villain have been reversed. You get to see more culture, more perspective... they're just better written and deeper.

So... yeah. I can't choose.



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Postby wigginboy » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:50 am

I liked both series, and one of my favourite books is CotM, but I would have to say, as i did previously on the old site, that the Shadow Series was my favourite. I liked the politics and the military application, and Bean Petra and Peter were all well drawn characters. ES was a good book but it is still not as good as the original. Aside from that, the rest of the Shadow series had me rivitted to the seat when i first read them, and all the subsequent times. Anyway, thats my opinion. Thnaks for listening.

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Postby lyons24000 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:00 pm

Jebus and Hegemon said exactly what I have been saying for years.
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Postby Mahatma » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:13 pm

I like both series, but the Speaker series is more my style of reading. Very philosophical, moral, all those questions -- what it means to be human, why life is hard, why war is terrible -- I like to think about. The Shadow series has those elements too, but they get overshadowed very easily with the action. Plus, I just don't love Bean as much as I love Ender. That's probably it, really. I just love Ender absolutely and completely.
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Postby CRash » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:45 pm

I'm with you, Mahatma, in enjoying the style of the Speaker series more. Moral issues interest me and I like to read about them, but I seldom read thrillers or anything based on action. My brain gets more use than my reflexes.

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Postby Blitz » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:59 pm

I like the pequininos, so I'm going to go with the Speaker series.
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Postby canvasch » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:04 pm

shadow series is the best..... no question..... i'm not into the whole sci-fi thing.... but i love ender's game is did enjoy the speaker series (children of the mind the most)........... though bean's saga just has so much more depth to me and i love the political feel that is constant throughout the series.

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Postby Jayelle » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:11 pm

~this post may contain spoilers for SotG~

The problem I have with the Shadow series is that they're just not as well written as the Speaker series. OSC is better at Sci-Fi then political fiction.

Also, when Bean "invented Jane" in SotG, I threw the book across the room (literally), it was just too unbelievable.
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Postby mr_thebrain » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:28 pm

yeah, i would have prefered jane being unexplained.
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Postby zeroguy » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:30 pm

She wouldn't be completely unexplained. Most of her (the most important aspects) are explained later in the series. Who really cares who originally wrote her, anyway?

It's just really annoying how OSC seemingly just keeps trying to tie in more and more random things to Jane's origin, for no real reason.
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Postby peterlocke123 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:08 pm

The whole Speaker series and Ender's Shadow and Shadow of the Giant were my favorites...Shadow Puppets and Shadow of the Hegemon didn't really appeal to me...

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Shadow Rocks!!!

Postby Kaira » Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:06 pm

-_- shadow rocks. honestly, you guys say that theres not as much depth... its sad that you dont see it. speeker is really good but... shadow has it beat by just a little. ya'll dont know how to dig for it, to connect... sad :cry:
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Postby Young Val » Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:24 pm

i certainly don't hate the Shadow series, but i've definitely got more attachment to the Speaker series.

if i had to pick a favorite from the Shadow books, Shadow of the Hegemon is it by far.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby Hegemon » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:42 pm

Of the Shadow books, my favorite is Shadow of the Giant....

But my least favorite is Shaddow Puppets because OSC had forgotten who the characters he created actually were and turned Peter into a complete imbecile.

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Postby Peter Wiggin » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:02 pm

I would kill for another book in the shadow series, I absolutely love the 4 characters at the end. (You know who, I don't want to spoil anything)

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Postby Qing_Jao » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:54 pm

I like both series, almost equally.
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Postby pooka » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:25 pm

I did have to think about it for a second, but I do like the speaker series better. Ender's shadow has a more powerful ending, but getting there can be so painful. The scene where Ender leaves battle school, I just have to skip. I've also come to a new appreciation for Speaker, and Xenocide is my favorite. Children of the Mind, probably because it has Peter in it, seemed a lot like the Shadow books.

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Spoiler Warning

Postby Bevis » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:11 pm

I went with the Speaker series here. Predominantly for the loss I felt when Ender turned to dust as opposed to the who-the-hell-cares I felt when Bean went into space. I enjoyed following Bean more than Ender but I believe it was established as early as ES that Bean was going to die young. At the end of SotG I felt as if I'd been preparing for this great departure. Then it turns out he's just going for a space ride.
Last edited by Bevis on Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby wigginboy » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:24 pm

Children of the Mind, probably because it has Peter in it, seemed a lot like the Shadow books.
Perhaps that is why i liked CotM so much, because it was like the Shadow Series. But im not sure, so i think im going to read CotM again. I just finished reading SotG, so it'll be good contrast. Thanks for the comparison though pooka.

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Postby Ela » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:55 am

I thought the Ender's Game/Speaker series was much better written and more thought-provoking than the Shadow series.

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Postby Eversica » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:42 am

Speaker, by far. I really like the morality issues that the characters have to face in it versus the political ones in the Shadow series. I usually only read EG-CotM over and over and over again, with a little ES thrown in, but recently I reread the Shadow series for the first time (I'd only read 'em once, compared to the 20-30 times of some of the others) and I realized WHY I didn't like it as much, and was able to enjoy the story a bit more after I got over it.

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Postby eriador » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:23 pm

yeah, i would have prefered jane being unexplained.
Wasn't Jane (partly) explained in Xenocide?

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Postby zeroguy » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:58 pm

Pretty much. Well, mostly.
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who could have created jane other thanBean?

Postby shadow_gangsta » Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:58 pm

I dont' get why people like xenocide and CotM they sucked ass

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Postby Young Val » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:54 pm

i favor the Speaker series because i prefer to read about people as opposed to events.

that being said, i did enjoy the Shadow series.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby eriador » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:13 pm

xenocide was a great book imho.

there were exciting events, great ideas and wonderful characters. I liked it, and don't think that it "sucked ass."

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Postby Dragonteen » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:27 pm

Until I can track down a copy of Children of the Mind, I can't comment on which is best.

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Re: who could have created jane other thanBean?

Postby zeroguy » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:13 am

I dont' get why people like xenocide and CotM they sucked ass
Sorry if some of us just appreciate ass sucking. It's an acquired taste, I hear.
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