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Postby jotabe » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:26 pm

Well, i have to say that Ghana showed what the future of the african national teams should be. For too long, african teams have been about the exceptional quality of a few stars that play in european leagues. Instead, Ghana, while not lacking talent, has worked on creating a team. They reminded me of how Spain or even Italy (in the good sense) play: defensive organization, short passes.
So you shouldn't feel bad for losing to a worthy adversary.

Hehe Sonikku, i should be saying that. I'm a bad bad galician nationalist XD
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Postby Petrie » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:46 pm

Pfft. You, clearly, are entirely too rational and I want none of it. :P


It was an excellent game after half-time (much more one-sided the first) and Ghana was amazing pretty much the whole way through with the pressure/presence they put on the US (I swear, it was a sea of red everywhere, they were attacking the ball, and they didn't let the US have as many opportunities as they had against Algeria, though they did have them). But I'm still sad to see the end of it for the US.



You'll also note, I work(ed) today, so I didn't get to watch quite as closely as I wanted.

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Postby Graff^ » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:49 am

R.I.P U.S soccer team!

Viva Espana!
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:28 pm

I can't find myself rooting for the Spanish side, though I really don't want to root for a team with Ronaldo on it either. So I guess am rooting for never ending PKs.

But I only see 5(maybe 6) teams that even have a chance.

1) Brazil. They are the favorite because, well, they're Brazil. They have been workman like in their effort. Kind of like the rest of the tournament is a foregone conclusion.

2) Argentina. They have been the best team in the tournament so far. Very entertaining to watch. I hope they make the final.

3) Netherlands. They have been the most impressive European side. A team that usually comes in with much fanfare, looks great in the group phase and then flames out in the knockout round; has been flying very much under the radar. I don't think they have peaked yet, which is very good for them.

4) Germany. Their demise is always over exaggerated. They have a knack for making it further than they should. But Argentina will be tough. It might be the most entertaining game of the tournament.

5) Spain. Talent wise, they can stack up against anyone. But after breaking through in the European championships, they choked in the Confederation's Cup and haven't been all that impressive so far. Given thier history of World Cup disappointment and the fact that Torres doesn't look right, I can't see them getting by Germany/Argentina. Not to mention, that Portugal is no slouch.

6ish) Portugal. I give them an outside chance. A lot of things have to go their way. They a very much a counter attacking team, which can be an effective way of playing, but it is also harder to come back if a team is laying back with the lead.

So there is my analysis of everything. My condolences to Uruguay, Ghana, Japan and Paraguay. But at least two of you will win one more game.

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Postby Graff^ » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:46 pm

You show an accurate analysis of the cup.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:07 pm

You show an accurate analysis of the cup.
Yeah. It looks that way, but it rarely plays out that way.

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Postby jotabe » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:57 am

Argentina has the best team, but one serious drawback: Maradona. Maradona is an idiot, a pompous ass (and a druggie, to boot). He's a terrible coach, and almost managed to get Argentina out of the World Cup in the qualification stage, only making up for their poor performance in the repechage. Argentina had a tough time with Mexico because they just couldn't break their defensive line... only the referee's help did it.

Plus, a big deterrent for argentinian players is Maradona's promise to get naked by the obelisk in Buenos Aires would the national team be celebrating the victory.
Not only that, the infamous argentinian ex-coach Carlos Bilardo promised that he would let the player who scored the victory goal in the final match to sodomize him. No, i am not joking, i wish i was.

I think it will be Germany's turn to put their steamroller to work.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:25 am

While Maradona certainly is an idiot and they did struggle during qualification, I don't really agree with your assessment of the game. The game was fairly even to start, Mexico had the best early chance. Hitting the crossbar early on. The call on the first goal was absolutely terrible, but you can sit there a bitch about the refs or you can respond by playing better. Mexico did not and they have no one but themselves to blame. When the pressure is put on Mexico, they routinely fold. And they did again. I actually quite liked this Mexican side, which is odd because the are the United States' principle rival. And hate is a strong word, but I usually like them very much. I think they have a lot of young talent. If they live up to their potential, they could be dangerous next cup and actually get passed the round of 16.

Germany is a strange side. I don't know how I feel about them. Looking top to bottom, they shouldn't win this match. But they continue to find a way get the job done. They will certainly test Argentina's back line. But I still don't think they will win. Should be a great game, but I think Messi gets his first goal and Argentina gets the win.

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Postby jotabe » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:23 am

The call on the first goal was absolutely terrible, but you can sit there a bitch about the refs or you can respond by playing better. Mexico did not and they have no one but themselves to blame.
While that's true, it wasn't simply the fact of being sure it was not a goal. It was more the fact that the situation was being shown on the stadium big screen, and that after conceding the goal, the referee acted as if he was going to call it off by going to the linier and ask him. All that taking several minutes, only to eventually conceding the goal anyway. That's bound to be a hit in their concentration.

Argentina is a much better team, but badly directed, which is why they were even at the start. Mexicans were already doing their best, just holding them off, and had a fair shot at the win (look at the Switzerland-Spain game lol). The referee changed all that... which is why i really look forward to the time when we can do completely away with them. Referees are human, after all, and bound to make mistakes.

About Germany... i can only stand by what Gary Lineker said: "Football is a game for 22 people that run around, play the ball, and one referee who makes a slew of mistakes, and in the end Germany always wins." :wink: that's enough.
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Postby Sonikku13 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:03 am

Even as a US fan, I can say this - Ghana might not win the World Cup in 2010, but their future is bright, as Ghana won the 2009 U-20 World Cup, defeating Brazil 4-3 in PKs. Ghana is the youngest team in the World Cup, so that talent they showed in the U-20 World Cup is going to show this year. Ghana will probably get through to be the first African team in the final four.

Uruguay vs. Ghana - I see Uruguay finished 5th in CONMEBOL qualification, which means they aren't as good as a Brazil team, or an Argentina team. However, South America has been dominant in the World Cup. However, Ghana has home continent advantage, and five Ghana players are from the 2009 U-20 national team that won the U-20 World Cup. Right now, I lean toward Ghana.

Netherlands vs. Brazil - The media says Brazil. But this will be tough, it's number 1 in the FIFA rankings vs. number 4. But then, FIFA rankings mean squat, it's the World Cup. South America has been dominant, however, in this year's World Cup, so I'll lean toward Brazil.

Argentina vs. Germany - Both teams got extremely lucky as Argentina got a goal offside, and England had a goal ruled not a goal. FIFA rankings are 6 vs. 7, nothing there. South America has been dominant, but Germany has the history of making it far in the World Cup. Anyone can win this game, but I'll lean for Germany on my ethnicity.

Spain vs. Portugal - What a horrible matchup for the round of 16. However, thats how the draw went. FIFA rankings say it's number 2 vs number 3. I give the edge to Portugal if Ronaldo plays well, due to their defense, a 0-0 draw against Brazil. However, if Ronaldo doesn't play well, I'll say Spain has a slight edge. Spain lost to the USA in the 2009 Confederations Cup, and they lost to Switzerland in the opening group stage game. A team that loses their opening World Cup game has never won the World Cup. Spain might advance here, but I'll lean with Portugal.

Paraguay vs. Japan - Paraguay is a good team, they even beat Brazil 2-0 and they beat Argentina 1-0. I don't know much about Japan. However with a common opponent, Ivory Coast, Paraguay drew 2-2, while Japan lost 2-0. So I'll lean for Paraguay.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:20 am

I'm not saying the goal didn't change the game, but you can fight back at that point or you can lay down. Mexico routinely lies down and that is the knock on them. This is why they don't beat the US anymore outside of Estadio Azteca, because the US certainly isn't more talented. They have a good young team, but need to learn how to step up to diversity.

All of this being said, the refs have been particularly dreadful. That terrible goal being allowed, two goals disallowed for the United States and one for England. That is just off the top of my head. I am sure there are more.

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Postby jotabe » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:59 am

I'm not saying the goal didn't change the game, but you can fight back at that point or you can lay down.
I just don't see how Mexico could fight Argentina back, being behind in the scoreboard. As strategic as fooball is, maybe they should allow the option to resign, as in chess, lol XD
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:50 am

The United States did it in every single one of their games. Maybe they should take notes.

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Postby jotabe » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:43 am

What i mean is that Mexico's strategy seemed to be defending and waiting for fast counters. It's a good strategy when the rival is technically superior. After getting behind in the score, that strategy won't work any longer, and Mexico doesn't have quality players enough to play openly against Argentina... and hope to win.

Plus, how many other times are they going to play against Messi, Higuaín & co.? They probably wouldn't want to miss the best plays. :wink:
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:46 pm

I would like to personally thank Aaron Heilman and Adam LaRoche for last night's performance. It wasn't looking good and then these two make two really terrible throws in the bottom of the ninth inning to bring out the win for St. Louis.

Also, I'd like to thank the local trial lawyer association for my very nice (and free) seat.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:56 pm

What i mean is that Mexico's strategy seemed to be defending and waiting for fast counters. It's a good strategy when the rival is technically superior. After getting behind in the score, that strategy won't work any longer, and Mexico doesn't have quality players enough to play openly against Argentina... and hope to win.

Plus, how many other times are they going to play against Messi, Higuaín & co.? They probably wouldn't want to miss the best plays. :wink:
You really amaze me sometimes Jota. Yeah, that is a good strategy. But you need some type of backup plan. You can't just say "Well let's just sit back and hope we put up a clean sheet and hope we get lucky on a rush." "Opps, they scored. Well, game over. See you guys in four years." And the Mexicans do it against inferior teams too. They show little fight when their back is against the wall. What do they have to lose at that point(Especially against Argentina)? They should have come back attacking right after that, but they didn't. They sat back. Became more undisciplined. Gave up a bad goal on a turnover. Came out flat in the second and gave up another (albeit deserved) goal. Then they started to attack and they got a goal! If that would have happened earlier, they may have had a chance. I mean was the United States better than Mexico in 2002, hell no. But, they got a quick goal and the Mexicans never recovered. They need to get better at that.

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Postby jotabe » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:08 am

Man, i wish i had a dime for every time someone tells me something akin to "you amaze me" XD

I'll agree that i have peculiar views on football (well, on most things :wink:).

In any case, nah, i don't think they had a chance. It simply happened that after getting a wide margin, the argentinians just relaxed, and hence they allowed a goal in. It did not matter.
What do they have to lose? Well, same thing that chess players that resign. Time.

Of course, it seems that some teams don't mind wasting everybody's time, like Portugal >.< I mean, why do you bother even sending your players to play, having world class players in your team, when all you can come up with is placing a bus in front of your goal? Really, the coach should have just said "look, guys, i can't do it, you just better go out to the field without any strategy at all rather than my own, because i suck that much."
Words cannot express the sheer disappointment i felt on seeing how Portugal played. It could have been a beautiful game. And it was, but only at times, and on one side only.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:51 am

What do they have to lose? Well, same thing that chess players that resign. Time.
That's not necessarily true. The game lasts at least 90 minutes whether you give up or not. And you might be right about Argentina relaxing, but if there is a weak point on their team, its their defense. I understand wanting to stay back and not get beat badly in the group phase because of the goal differential. But at this point, what is the difference if you lose by 1 or lose by 40. You're going home no matter what if you lose, so you might as well go down swinging. I just didn't any fight in Mexico. Hell, even England, who slept walked through three games, showed some fight and should have tied it in the first half.

And Portugal is the ultimate team that employs your counter attack strategy! That being said, after seeing the highlights of the games yesterday, I'm glad I didn't have the chance to watch either of them.

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Postby jotabe » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:59 am

Well i don't think it would have mattered if England tied and fought on, against Germany. Germany is simply better, and will flatten England no matter what :lol:

Yea, i know! But Portugal is not allowed to use it! :evil: With players of the calibre of the ones in the portuguese national team, they should be playing football instead of WWI, just because they can :wink:
I really wanted Portugal to get far in this world cup, but after seeing them play, i am glad they went down in flames [/bitterly disappointed].
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:33 am

I think you are letting you prejudices come in to play here Jota. The great thing about being a USA fan is that we haven't been good long enough to have legit rival, although Ghana is really starting to piss me off :). So your saying that the offside goal that was allowed demoralized Mexico so badly that they had no chance of winning, but would have had a real chance of winning otherwise. But the good goal that was disallowed for England didn't matter? Even though it would have evened the score, England would have had all of the momentum and Germany certainly would have been down because they were playing well and still even after scoring two goals. But England would have still gotten flatten, even though:
(Argentina - Mexico) > (Germany - England). I don't get it man. I just don't get it.

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Postby jotabe » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:40 am

Well, as a wise person put it: "Football isn't a matter of life and death; it's more important than all that."

When you talk about football, you are allowed to be heavily prejudiced XD it just doesn't matter.

And i better stop talking about football as if i knew about it lol.
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:11 am

Europeans are different than Americans, Ed. They don't know how to "puke and rally."
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Postby jotabe » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:29 am

I dunno about rally, but we do know how to puke!
You should see the brits after they get drunk on our cheap ale!

On second thought, we know how to rally too! most world rally champions are Europeans :lol:
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:57 am

Man, if I had a dollar for every time I had to puke and rally, I would have what? Like 50 bucks or so?

Oh Jota, I didn't mean to insinuate that you weren't entitled to your prejudices, you certainly are. And I definitely have mine in the american professional leagues, but I also try to come in with an objective view when evaluating performances. For example, I will for always and forever hate the Yankees and their fans and I wish them both sports misery for the rest of time. And while I don't think they played all that great in the world series last year, they certainly played better than the Phillies and deserved to win (as much as it pains me to say that). Same for the Blackhawks(although I don't think the sports misery applies for all of time, maybe just like 10 years or so).

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Postby jotabe » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:10 am

Man, if I had a dollar for every time I had to puke and rally, I would have what? Like 50 bucks or so?
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I hope you don't drunk drive! D:
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:55 am

Holler at me Netherlands. I didn't get to watch any of this game, but I am very pleased with the result. My finals prediction is still alive and well. I wish I would have bet it. But I refuse to reveal what it is because God knows that teams that I openly root love to kick me in the balls.

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Postby CezeN » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:17 pm

Ghana certainly deserved to win, and would have, had that one player not used his hands to block the ball from going in like he was a goalie.

Also if more of the Ghana team sucked less. :x
(seriously, you miss two penalty kicks in a row, wtf)
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Postby Sonikku13 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:52 pm

What happened in the Uruguay - Ghana match was simply this: Suarez knew the ball was going to go in the goal if he didn't do something. His reflex was to use a hand to block it. This gave away the penalty kick, but Ghana had to convert it, and they didn't. It's like in the final moments of a basketball game, down 3, hit a quick 2, foul, force the opponent to make free throws. That's kind of what happened. The repercussions are probably larger for Uruguay, as Suarez, the Uruguayan striker, has scored 3 goals in this World Cup. He will not play against the Netherlands, which is a big blow. This means I see the Netherlands getting to the final.

In the future, I see Ghana getting farther in 2014, as they won the U-20 World Cup. This means their players are going to get better and better.

Still haven't chosen someone for Paraguay - Spain. I want to see another underdog story, like Butler in the NCAA Tournament last March. So I'll cheer for Paraguay, although I think Spain should win this game.

On other notes, who would have thought Brazil would hit the self-destruct button?!
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Postby Satya » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:59 pm

Is it over now? Can America stop pretending to care now?
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Postby Sonikku13 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:45 pm

It's not over, and you can't argue this.
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Postby jotabe » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:59 am

It's not over, and you can't argue this.
Omg... vuvuzelas in the US, too? :shock:
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Postby jotabe » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:52 am

double post, i know, but...

GERMANY 4 - ARGENTINA 0

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You were right, Eddie, it was the most entertaining game of the tournament so far. I enjoyed it immensely. Maybe more than a hypothetical final where Spain wins. :wink:
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Postby Sonikku13 » Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:02 am

Germany vs. Spain - This is easy. Whomever scores first should win this game. Spain knows how to hold possession, and Germany is great on the counterattack. If it goes to penalties, I'll lean toward Spain.
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Postby jotabe » Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:46 am

I actually think Germany will get it, if anything because they have proven a better acclimatation to the ball. On the rest of parameters, they seem to be quite even. Also, Germany seem to be in better shape, spanish players look like they get exhausted to the endgames.
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Postby Sonikku13 » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:08 pm

Well in the last two games, Germany got to play against weak defenses, while Spain got to play against stout defenses. That makes them even for me.
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