Fundies!

Talk about anything under the sun or stars - but keep it civil. This is where we really get to know each other. Everyone is welcome, and invited!
User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Fundies!

Postby eriador » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:08 pm

I read this comment on a Digg story just a moment ago:
The Fundies are against tolerance. They think tolerance is what brought America Gay marriage.

Hell, if Jaysus was preachin' his "love everyone" message today, it would be the Fundie Christians that would crucify him again.
What do you think? I totally agree with what he's saying. 'Nuff said.

User avatar
Rei
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3068
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:31 pm
Title: Fides quaerens intellectum
First Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Location: Between the lines

Postby Rei » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:49 pm

I'm not sure if there are many who would disagree.

On a more serious note, I tend to suspect that the word "tolerance" is a terrible one for our society. So often we divide people into tolerant and intolerant, and those who are in the tolerant group cannot tolerate intolerant people.
Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point.
~Blaise Pascal


私は。。。誰?

Dernhelm

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:07 pm

I like to think that I tolerate intolerant people. Not very well mind you, but I tolerate them.

User avatar
Scott
Launchie
Launchie
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:33 am
Location: Omaha, NE, USA
Contact:

Postby Scott » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:12 pm

I like to think that I tolerate intolerant people. Not very well mind you, but I tolerate them.
I've always believed people say they are tolerant of everyone should tolerate all views. You do, but it seems most of the "tolerant" people believe that everyone should tolerate people.

These people don't tolerate racists, sexists, homophobics, and other discriminatory viewpoints. Tolerant people expect others to have an open mind. I don't agree with that, there is a place in this world for all types of people.

As for the Fundies, I think they're more pro-Bible than anti-tolerance.
Live every week like it's SHARK WEEK

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:20 pm

As for the Fundies, I think they're more pro-Bible than anti-tolerance.
Read Sam Harris' Letter to a Christian Nation. Yes, it has a lot of atheistic content, but he makes some very good points about how far out of touch from the Bible fundies are. The atheist stuff isn't related to this stuff that I'm talking about, btw.

Locke_
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:06 am
Title: Fill in the Blank
Location: SC or FL mostly
Contact:

Postby Locke_ » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:01 am

The "intolerance" is one of the biggest things that makes me uncomfortable with organized religion unwittingly representing my personal faith. I feel like the church is so caught up in deciding what's right and what's wrong, who's right and who's wrong, what's a sin and what's not, that they get distracted from the most challenging thing Jesus commanded, which is for us to love. Period. Christianity has become wound and mixed up in the technicalities of everything, to such an extent that they've developed a comfortable tolerance toward the life-long command of those who believe in God to aim at loving anybody, always.

I realized this on my road trip. My friends and I were in Portland, and found ourselves staying at a cheap hotel (the only hotel of the trip actually) above the homosexual community -- at least we think so, but it might have just been the gay club/bar area, I don't know the layout of the city. Anyway, we started talking about homosexuality, whether it's a sin, how we'd like to figure it out, etc, etc, and I realized that I don't really care about all that and it makes me forget the love command, which is hard enough to follow constantly and consistently, without getting caught up in technicalities.
It is not the sound of victory;
it is not the sound of defeat;
it is the sound of singing that I hear.
-Moses

User avatar
BonitoDeMadrid
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 780
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 am
Title: Bonzo was Framed
Location: The exact center of the earth

Postby BonitoDeMadrid » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:24 am

The "intolerance" is one of the biggest things that makes me uncomfortable with organized religion unwittingly representing my personal faith. I feel like the church is so caught up in deciding what's right and what's wrong, who's right and who's wrong, what's a sin and what's not, that they get distracted from the most challenging thing Jesus commanded, which is for us to love. Period. Christianity has become wound and mixed up in the technicalities of everything, to such an extent that they've developed a comfortable tolerance toward the life-long command of those who believe in God to aim at loving anybody, always.
Well said, well said.

IMO, being tolerant towards everybody is nearly an impossible job: everybody is either intolerant initially, or are intolerant towards people who are intolerant initially. Thus, nobody is fully tolerant- not even the hardest trying person.
However, the difference between the two types is why are they intolerant: the first type is the "bad" type, intolerant because of pre-assumptions, "sacred" texts (excuse my atheistic behavior) and perhaps even worse things, whilst the other type is intolerant to those people BECAUSE they're intolerant due to...well, you get the point.

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:32 am

Whoa, I didn't think this would every happen, but to both of you, Well Said!

User avatar
zeroguy
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2740
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:29 pm
Title: 01111010 01100111
First Joined: 0- 8-2001
Location: Where you least expect me.
Contact:

Postby zeroguy » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:38 am

On a more serious note, I tend to suspect that the word "tolerance" is a terrible one for our society. So often we divide people into tolerant and intolerant, and those who are in the tolerant group cannot tolerate intolerant people.
Aren't you just basing that on that you only hear about people who complain? Not everyone has to go around fueling arguments with people they disagree with. You may not hear of the universally tolerant because they're not shouting about stuff they're not tolerating.
Proud member of the Canadian Alliance.

dgf hhw

User avatar
Rei
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3068
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:31 pm
Title: Fides quaerens intellectum
First Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Location: Between the lines

Postby Rei » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:39 am

That is true, and part of why I phrased it as being "so often", however it did come out ambiguously. I do believe that it is relatively safe to say that almost everybody comes out as failing the tolerance test to some degree, though, and that tolerance is over-rated. There has to be some better ideal to shoot for than something so problem-causing as tolerance.
Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point.
~Blaise Pascal


私は。。。誰?

Dernhelm

Locke_
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:06 am
Title: Fill in the Blank
Location: SC or FL mostly
Contact:

Postby Locke_ » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:54 pm

Heh, this thread reminded me that I tend to get much more pissed off and annoyed by other Christians than by atheists, agnostics, or people of other faiths. In fact, I'd say the attitudes and actions of my religion leads me to much more doubt than the influence of others' beliefs.
It is not the sound of victory;
it is not the sound of defeat;
it is the sound of singing that I hear.
-Moses

User avatar
starlooker
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3823
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:19 pm
Title: Dr. Mom
First Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Home. With cats who have names.
Contact:

Postby starlooker » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:29 pm

There's a difference between tolerance and acceptance.

I tolerate the intolerant. As in, I put up with intolerance and am civil to those who I think are intolerant. Furthermore, I believe in their right to hold intolerant views (although, I don't believe they have a right to practice intolerance when it interferes with the civil rights of other people). I believe that they are wrong, but I tolerate this and consider them to be humans, with rights like any other humans. I do not use hate-speech against them or go out of my way to upset them. I try to be open minded and fair.

But although I tolerate intolerance, I do not accept it. I do not agree with it. I do not admire people who strike me as intolerant, or have a great deal of empathy for them, or love them for that aspect of themselves. Acceptance and tolerance are different. And it seems to me that people who preach to those who ask for tolerance, "You're not tolerating me! So now who's intolerant?" are confusing the two.

Regarding "Fundies" -- I hate all generalizations :)

Seriously, though, there are people who I know and care about and love who do hold fundamentalist views. It's like any other group of people -- once you put a face on it and have some empathy for it, stereotyping and generalizing become, well, intolerable. Which means I really dislike exaggerations and misrepresentations of those beliefs and that community even though I disagree with almost everything about it.
There's another home somewhere,
There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
into the wind, unafraid.
There's another life out there...

~~Mary Chapin Carpenter

VelvetElvis
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:22 am
Title: is real!
First Joined: 0- 9-2004

Postby VelvetElvis » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:59 pm

Heh, this thread reminded me that I tend to get much more pissed off and annoyed by other Christians than by atheists, agnostics, or people of other faiths
Me too! I want to shake them by their shoulders and tell them that they ought to know better than to act like that!
Yay, I'm a llama again!

User avatar
Scott
Launchie
Launchie
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:33 am
Location: Omaha, NE, USA
Contact:

Postby Scott » Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:30 pm

Heh, this thread reminded me that I tend to get much more pissed off and annoyed by other Christians than by atheists, agnostics, or people of other faiths
Me too! I want to shake them by their shoulders and tell them that they ought to know better than to act like that!
I am Christian, tolerate me or to hell with you!

Seriously, I am a strong Christian, please tolerate me. I accept your different views on God.
Live every week like it's SHARK WEEK

User avatar
Eaquae Legit
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 5185
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:30 pm
Title: Age quod agis
First Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Location: ^ Geez, read the sign.
Contact:

Postby Eaquae Legit » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:48 pm

What Kirsten said. In spades.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII

User avatar
Jebus
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 1299
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:53 pm
Title: Lord and Saviour
First Joined: 07 Nov 2001

Postby Jebus » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:47 pm

Aye, Kirsten took the words out of my mouth about the difference between tolerance and acceptance.

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:48 pm

Seriously, I am a strong Christian, please tolerate me. I accept your different views on God.
One of those clauses is a lie.

User avatar
Eaquae Legit
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 5185
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:30 pm
Title: Age quod agis
First Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Location: ^ Geez, read the sign.
Contact:

Postby Eaquae Legit » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:14 pm

Eriador, this is EL the Mod.

Do not claim to know other people's beliefs better than they do. Do not call other members liars when they speak of their beliefs.

This is not a reprimand subject to debate or discussion. Do not do it. End of story.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:24 pm

When the core texts of Christianity say that you may only accept one view of God, one of those statements must be a lie. I refuse to retract what I said.

User avatar
Eaquae Legit
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 5185
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:30 pm
Title: Age quod agis
First Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Location: ^ Geez, read the sign.
Contact:

Postby Eaquae Legit » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:25 pm

There is a difference between a lie and a contradiction. The latter is acceptable, the former is not. You may not call other members liars here.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:28 pm

I reject the distinction, and therefore, the rule.

User avatar
Rei
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3068
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:31 pm
Title: Fides quaerens intellectum
First Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Location: Between the lines

Postby Rei » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:32 pm

That is not a wise thing to do when the distinction has been declared by a moderator of the boards...
Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point.
~Blaise Pascal


私は。。。誰?

Dernhelm

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:34 pm

Read Locke and get back to me ;)

User avatar
Eaquae Legit
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 5185
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:30 pm
Title: Age quod agis
First Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Location: ^ Geez, read the sign.
Contact:

Postby Eaquae Legit » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:02 pm

Like I said, this is not open to debate. You are not the arbiter of what is acceptable here, I am. These are the rules, and if you cannot abide by them, you will not be welcome to post. It's pretty simple, really, and most posters here manage just fine.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:12 pm

The health of any community is best evaluated by how it deals with the fringe, not the mainstream.

User avatar
Oliver Dale
Former Speaker
Former Speaker
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:24 pm
Title: Trapped in the Trunk!
Contact:

Postby Oliver Dale » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:13 pm

Eriador,

EL is actually being pretty fair handed, I'd say.

More than being impudent, you're being a dick. Knock it off. Or I'll knock you off. Of the boards. And this would be a permanent ban.

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:16 pm

What would that say about the health of this community?

User avatar
Oliver Dale
Former Speaker
Former Speaker
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:24 pm
Title: Trapped in the Trunk!
Contact:

Postby Oliver Dale » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:18 pm

The community would be healthier without a life-draining tumor. I'm serious man. I'm not just busting your balls. Be cool, or get iced.

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:35 pm

Well, I'm putting a lot more life into this place than you are, so that argument is bull. However, I'll accept that I made a mistake in giving you guys too much credit. Maybe I should have said: "The way I see it, one of those clauses is blatantly untrue. How can you reconcile a faith that insists on the acceptance of a single God with your acceptance of everybody else's view?"

User avatar
Eaquae Legit
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 5185
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:30 pm
Title: Age quod agis
First Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Location: ^ Geez, read the sign.
Contact:

Postby Eaquae Legit » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:41 pm

And that would have been acceptable. Too bad you opted for the unacceptable version.

I am with Ollie 100% on this. Abide by the rules, or leave. I'm sick of dealing with this bullshit.
"Only for today, I will devote 10 minutes of my time to some good reading, remembering that just as food is necessary to the life of the body, so good reading is necessary to the life of the soul." -- Pope John XXIII

User avatar
Oliver Dale
Former Speaker
Former Speaker
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:24 pm
Title: Trapped in the Trunk!
Contact:

Postby Oliver Dale » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:42 pm

Cancer cells divide uncontrolled -- don't confuse that with life, or at least productive life. But yes, you did make a mistake and your rephrasing is an improvement that allows for continued intellectual discourse.

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:05 pm

I'd rather be cancer than dead Ollie.

As to the rephrasing, what's the difference? I said the same thing but in more words.

User avatar
Oliver Dale
Former Speaker
Former Speaker
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:24 pm
Title: Trapped in the Trunk!
Contact:

Postby Oliver Dale » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:48 pm

The difference is that now you are allowing for the possibility of other people being able to explain their stance. Don't pull that. I know you're not tragically stupid. You know what the difference is. My conclusion is that you are simply trying to be difficult, and if I had to guess why, I'd say for the same reason I was intentionally difficult when I was younger. But it gets old, man. And no one attributes wit to simple cantankerousness.

User avatar
zeroguy
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2740
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:29 pm
Title: 01111010 01100111
First Joined: 0- 8-2001
Location: Where you least expect me.
Contact:

Postby zeroguy » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:51 pm

Well, I'm putting a lot more life into this place than you are, so that argument is bull.
Ollie is less annoying than you are.
Proud member of the Canadian Alliance.

dgf hhw

User avatar
eriador
KillEvilBanned
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Contact:

Postby eriador » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:39 pm

Zero, I'm surprised you haven't already learned that life is, by definition, annoying.

As to Ollie, I had the same intention with both. It was just that one failed to carry the message as well. Thanks for elaborating.


Return to “Milagre Town Square”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests