Why I'm failing my students by not failing them.

[Gravity Defier]

Last year I was introduced to a policy that I absolutely loathe with my entire being: the Power of Zero Policy.

This policy states that due to the difficulty in passing a class with a decently high grade if a student has even just one zero as a score, we are not to give students a zero. Ever. The default grade on any assignment that has been attempted is a 60%, a D, (if based on a ten point grading scale, 90-100% A, 80-89% B, and so on) and 50%, an F, on a non-attempted assignment.

A student could do absolutely no work save one or two assignments and still pass a class at my school.

What is even more disturbing is that although we're expected to give this boost to those who do very little to no work (either lack of ability or effort), we are not allowed to boost the scores of those who do attempt to do all their work.

In essence, we punish those who actually try and can do something and reward those who can't or don't try.

To try to further deter teachers from giving an 'F,' and sadly, it works for some, the administration says an 'F' cannot go on a midterm report or report card unless you have contacted that parent and informed them of why.


To me, this whole system tells kids it is okay to not give a damn because we'll pass them anyway. It means we don't expect much from them at all. It means they'll be in for a rude awakening when they get to their high schools, which, as far as I know, don't have the Power of Zero Policy.

When I was a student, I was held accountable for every assignment, and knew there was no boosting of grades because we were held responsible for calculating them to compare to what the teacher said we earned.

What do you all think? How were your schools run regarding grades?

[eriador]

I'd suggest some sort of act of rebellion. Like changing the scale you use (95-100 is an A, 90-100 is a B, etc.) or maybe just changing your system to one based on "class participation" and giving them supposedly arbitrary grades for that that are actually based on their grades on assignments.

I guess that those courses of action might do better as protest moves AFTER you bring the issue up with the schools administration. And get people to write letters. I'll write one if you tell me where to send it.

[Scott]

I think teachers take too much individual responsibilities for their students. The school board or administration have given that policy a lot of thought and I would follow it, but with my own discretions.

I don't know what level you teach, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Students who suck (for lack of a bettter word) at academics require more help than those who don't.

I don't know the full extent of the policy, maybe the school board is just trying to pad their numbers to get a higher budget...

[eriador]

school board ≠ educators

[Young Val]

that is one of the 8 million reasons why i had to drop my education major in college.

as much as i love teaching and as much as i love kids, i just couldn't deal with the administrative bullshit. good for you, and for my best friend, and for others who do it and have their hearts in the right place. i wish there were more of you.

[eriador]

Mmm. Almost every teacher I know personally (and I know a surprising number quite well) hate all of the administrative stuff. I agree with Val, there is no way in hell I could stand it.

[neo-dragon]

We have similar issues with the system here in Ontario. We are technically not allowed to deduct marks from assignments handed in late (although some teachers still do), and we are not allowed to give zeros for assignments that aren't handed in at all. The rationale: grades are supposed to represent what the student knows, not his or her work habits (or lack thereof).

Technically, a student can hand in a crap load of assignments from throughout the year all on the last day and I'd be expected to mark them all in time for report cards, except for the fact that we can refuse to accept assignments once they have been graded and returned to the students who submitted them on time. But even then the student doesn't get a zero, the assignment just doesn't count.

I also hear stories from teachers who have been pressured into passing students who don't deserve it just to keep the school's failure rate down. Way to teach teens about failure and consequences.

[Eaquae Legit]

Witness the reason why I want to teach university and not elementary or high school. I hate that policy.

We have a family friend whose one kid is very slow. He couldn't read at the end of grade three, and she fought tooth and nail for her kid to be held back a grade. The school board wouldn't let her, even though he was her kid and he was way behind the grade standard. Ludicrous.

I want nothing to do with public education. All teachers must be either masochists or saints. I salute them, either way.

[Locke_]

It sprung on me recently how important our country insists that it is for students to be in school, how lawfully mandatory up until a certain age. But they never ever consider the teachers.

Anyone think the educational system would be better for students if so many potentially great teachers weren't led away from the career b/c of money? College professor all the way.

[neo-dragon]

I want nothing to do with public education. All teachers must be either masochists or saints.

Nah, some of us are just taken in by the glamourous lifestyle.

[Eaquae Legit]

Both my parents are teachers. I'm not fooled.

[zeroguy]

This policy makes no sense to me. Laments of the increasingly lax educational standards of the States aside, this specific policy encourages no positive behavior, and I can't see what purpose it could possibly serve.

When I was in high school, there were always BS assignments that I felt were stupid and not worth my time. Maybe I was right, maybe I was just being frustrated at requisite classes that I didn't agree should be required. In either case, with a policy such as what P_G described, I would almost certainly not do such assignments at all. The way our school worked, however, we could (obviously) get zeroes on assignments. So, no matter how much a crappy job I thought I would do, no matter how much BS I thought I would have to put into it, I made myself at least put something down on paper.

I mean, from a standpoint of thinking about how much work goes into how high of a grade, it just makes sense to do something. Zero work yields zero for a grade, but a very minimal amount of work would get you at least a 60% on most things. (I'm thinking of things like papers which can be somewhat... vague in grading. I've never seen a grade in between 1% and 50% on those, I don't think.) More work to get above 60% could or could not be time-effective for me, depending on the assignment, but it was alwyas guaranteed that it was worth it to go for that first 60%.

The point is, this normal way of doing things gives a really big incentive for someone to work on the assignment in the first place. You may not be intending to put a lot of work into it, but after you actually are doing something, real insight may present itself, or you may suddenly get interested in whatever the topic is.

Or, even if that doesn't happen, you at least can gain experience in BSing assignments, which I still maintain is an invaluable skill.

[LilBee91]

My high school doesn't even have D's. You get a C or higher, or else you fail. I believe the official policy for late work is that its highest grade can be 70% (but a lot of teachers have their own rules). So, I guess we don't let kids slack off so much, at least not policy-wise. Of course, that doesn't stop the administration from being insane in other ways...

Mainly, though, the stricter grades are only in my high school. The other high schools in the district all allow you to get 60% and still pass. And middle school is way too easy to get out of. My brother's friend failed half of his classes 8th grade year and they still moved him on to high school.

P_G, that policy is ridiculous. True, zeroes can be hard to make up, but that is no excuse to give a kid half-credit for doing nothing. I've had teachers who had homework scores weighted at 10%, so we could get away without doing a single assignment all year, but we still had to to really well on tests. Those poor kids--high school will kill them.

[Oliver Dale]

Such policies produce people like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

[starlooker]

Alea, I say this to all newish teachers who I think are awesome and passionate --

I really, really, really wish you could talk to my father. He's been a high school (and, at times, junior high) school teacher for over two decades and is still extremely dedicated and passionate and loves talking about his job. At any rate, I think it might be a good idea to talk to someone like him, that you personally look up to about this.

And one of the things Dad really loves talking about is the insane, stupid, crazy policies of school administrators who try to make up for problems at the core by putting policies in place that just make it LOOK like they're addressing the problem without either addressing the problem or, say, talking to teachers who aren't experiencing the problem. And oftentimes, these policies make it harder for the good teachers to do their jobs effectively.

I guess the only thing I can say to that is that if you can't advocate for policy change -- or even if you can, but while you're stuck with it -- you're going to have to look for other ways to motivate the kids to do the work. Group pressure is often helpful -- maybe some kind of reward for going a month with everyone turning in all assignments? I don't know what level you're teaching at. I don't know. My Dad talks some about the personality of the group (i.e., class) and bonding them either by giving them the mentality of "We're the elite!" or, "Everyone thinks we're never gonna amount to anything, but, by God, we're gonna show them!"

After all, the point is that they learn. So, okay, the administration has taken away one of your tools, but you can create more.

[eriador]

Violent revolution is also an option. I know where to get Guy Fawkes masks

[BonitoDeMadrid]

What can I say, this policy is downright stupid. It automatically creates imbeciles.

Yes, I use harsh language, but think of it this way. This policy imposes no work on the students, thus getting them used to life of non-working. Then, in high-school or even middle school, they will be either kicked out of school for being downright dumb and lazy, or this policy will go on and they'll reach high school, or maybe even graduate- though I doubt that would happen.
Or there's the other option, that they will come around, and have a hell of a hard time in the later schools..

In my high school, a high school known for its high grades- one of the best schools in my country, which is a quite developed one- they simply push us hard, give us many assignments and such, but not too hard, not taking all of our free time, giving us time to be like regular teens yet making us good students.
If we get a zero on an assignment, or a test, we get a zero: I remember getting two zeroes at math, in both 7th and 8th grade (bad teacher + bad student = really bad grades- my version of the pythagorean theorem). I got them in one test, in the beginning of the year, and it did not effect me much. In order to make us good they help us: we have a program in which older students help younger ones in H.W. and such..
If we don't hand in an assignment, we don't get a grade for the assignment, and IT DOES EFFECT our final grade. It's as if we got a zero. And people don't want to get a zero.
The school, knowingly or unknowingly, infects us with much social pressure about our grades- we each want our grades to be as high as they can be.

In conclusion, I think they should employ a different policy of Power of Zero- the Powerful effect of getting a Zero. You'll see the improvement in grades..

We're behind you, Peters_Girl

[starlooker]

Calm down, people.

I feel a bit that I'm playing devil's advocate here, and I don't want to be.
I agree that the policy is absolutely asinine in all respects. So it isn't that I'm agreeing with the policy. What I am debating is the catastrophizing of it.

The policy does not automatically create imbeciles. Nor is it going to make or break a student's learning experience. Some students in schools where zeros are given liberally never learn, and some students in schools with policies that don't enforce personal responsibility DO learn.

What I have learned over the years is that it is a grave, grave mistake to make more or less of administrative policies than what they are. Adopting the thinking of, "It's they're fault, they aren't letting me teach!" -- while productive in the short run at times -- and, often, true enough -- does not give teachers enough credit or responsibility. It is very seldom that one policy - however inane - utterly ruins someone's education.

There are other motivations to learn besides fear of failing. There is inate curiosity. There is enjoyment. There is the desire to help others or achieve goals. So, basically, instead of making students responsible for Not Failing, try to make 'em responsible for succeeding. By definitions of success other than grades.

Whenever I'd get a bad grade, my mother would ask me, "Did you learn it? Did you learn something?" And that is, after all, the ultimate point. That they are being taught and being given tools for success. And the message that you only need to do the bare minimum to pass is a lousy message, whether the minimum to pass is doing passable work and turning in all assignments or whether the minimum is doing nothing at all. The idea that the only reason to do the work is for the grade is harmful.

Yes, this sounds very pie-in-the-skyish, and I may sound like a hypocrite in some ways given that I'm not a teacher (nor do I think I have talents in that line at an adolescent level -- I enjoy it at the college/grad level). But I have observed excellent teaching very close up for over a couple of decades now. And so I've developed ideas and notions about these things.

I'm going to shamelessly brag on my father now.

Example: At one point my dad was teaching in an inner city school where kids would get arrested in the middle of class (sometimes for gang-related murder). One class he ran had 17 interruptions. So what did he do? Got the class to predict when the next one would come using math. And then whenever the administration or whoever would walk in -- right on time -- the class loved it.

When my father came to his current rural high school, it was run on the "star system." There was a calculus class, that generally consisted of the two or three or four students that everyone knew was gifted. (Virtually never were these minority students, by the way. Racism in education is a very real presence.) Ditto with the UIL program (state-sponsored academic competitions in Texas). Also, the students' standardized math pass rate was about average. Since he took charge of the program, there are now two pre-calculus classes, a calculus class that usually consists of a tenth of each graduating class, and in fact some students take extra maths instead of electives in order to take an extra year of calculus. Also, the math team sends people to state and has all sorts of people trying out to be "mathletes" -- male and female, white and minority. And my father, even when teaching "remedial" classes has never had a standardized test pass rate of under 88%. (And that was only once. Normally it's above 90%)

And during this time the administration has done approximately five hundred million incredibly asinine things to drive artificial pass rates up and deprive teachers of their power. Which really brings me to the biggest part of my take-home message here -- they have power over a lot of things, but do not fall into the mindset that you cannot teach and the students will never learn because of them. Because then you can't and they won't.

Don't tell me he's motivating these kids solely by fear of failure. Not that he isn't strict -- he has an reputation for being "tough" and there is no fooling around in class. But I think it's more about the culture he creates than the actual grades or whether or not "zeroes" are allowed.

Expectations of doing just the minimum -- whatever that is, whether it includes zeros or not -- are horrible things and do create bad habits and lazy students. Which means that the standard needs to be to expect something different than the minimum (however it's defined).

[thoughtreader]

I'm in my last year of undergrad this year and I'm going to go to the school of ed to get my teaching degree next year. I know I'd have trouble with a policy like that and I hope I don't run into one in the future.

[zeroguy]

Calm down, people.

No!

There are other motivations to learn besides fear of failing. There is inate curiosity. There is enjoyment. There is the desire to help others or achieve goals. So, basically, instead of making students responsible for Not Failing, try to make 'em responsible for succeeding. By definitions of success other than grades.

I don't think this is just about Fear of Not Failing. This is seeing others do absolutely no work, pouring your heart into something, and getting marginally better scores.

I know, most of what you're saying is how to make things rewarding outside of that stupid little GPA. And well, I would say the emphasis on grades comes from the individual and their parents, not from the school itself at all. I don't think you're going to change that with anything from the side of the school.

Whenever I'd get a bad grade, my mother would ask me, "Did you learn it? Did you learn something?" And that is, after all, the ultimate point. That they are being taught and being given tools for success. And the message that you only need to do the bare minimum to pass is a lousy message, whether the minimum to pass is doing passable work and turning in all assignments or whether the minimum is doing nothing at all. The idea that the only reason to do the work is for the grade is harmful.

But what about kids who are doing it for the grade, without any regard to whatever the policy is? You can either give them no education, or make the minimum at a certain level so they will leave with some knowledge on whatever. You cannot make every subject interesting for everyone, nor convince (lie to) everyone that everything will be useful.

[starlooker]

Calm down, people.

No!

Or don't. If it makes you feel better, feel free to remain hysterical.

I don't think this is just about Fear of Not Failing. This is seeing others do absolutely no work, pouring your heart into something, and getting marginally better scores.

That is only partially what it is about. And what I'm saying is not that the policy is correct. I've said that they are taking a tool away from the teachers. What I am suggesting is a mentality that might help find workarounds despite administrative stupidity.

I know, most of what you're saying is how to make things rewarding outside of that stupid little GPA. And well, I would say the emphasis on grades comes from the individual and their parents, not from the school itself at all. I don't think you're going to change that with anything from the side of the school.

Bullshit. Not that those things don't have a powerful impact, but the most powerful impact within a class is the impact of the teacher, the group climate itself, and the expectations contained within that setting. It's not that you just have some smart kids, some hard workers, and some that aren't hard workers and you just have to deal with it. Overestimating the outside influences and underestimating influences within the setting itself is a setup for failure. Not that there aren't individual differences, but the power of the situation is a HUGE impact. This is the difference between inspiring teachers and babysitters.

Whenever I'd get a bad grade, my mother would ask me, "Did you learn it? Did you learn something?" And that is, after all, the ultimate point. That they are being taught and being given tools for success. And the message that you only need to do the bare minimum to pass is a lousy message, whether the minimum to pass is doing passable work and turning in all assignments or whether the minimum is doing nothing at all. The idea that the only reason to do the work is for the grade is harmful.

But what about kids who are doing it for the grade, without any regard to whatever the policy is? You can either give them no education, or make the minimum at a certain level so they will leave with some knowledge on whatever. You cannot make every subject interesting for everyone, nor convince (lie to) everyone that everything will be useful.

[/quote]

Who's talking about everyone? Nothing works one hundred percent all the time for everyone, and I never said it did. However, there are ways of maximizing learning. And I do believe in minimum expectations -- again, why I think the policy is asinine -- however, I think overfocusing on them, whatever they happen to be, is harmful.

[Gravity Defier]

I'll be posting an actual response to what's been said later tonight.

In the mean time, if it matters, the grade level is 8th grade, the subject is math. The actual math we work with is pre-algebra, some algebra, geometry, and a little trig.

Economically speaking, I'd say my school is about on par with that of an inner-city school. An astronomical percentage of the city as a whole falls under the poverty line, and that would include the grand majority of our students.



And...I have to go. My munchkins are coming in from lunch.

[zeroguy]

Or don't. If it makes you feel better, feel free to remain hysterical.

Perhaps my response just sounded funnier in my head. Oops.

I know, most of what you're saying is how to make things rewarding outside of that stupid little GPA. And well, I would say the emphasis on grades comes from the individual and their parents, not from the school itself at all. I don't think you're going to change that with anything from the side of the school.

Bullshit. Not that those things don't have a powerful impact, but the most powerful impact within a class is the impact of the teacher, the group climate itself, and the expectations contained within that setting.

Depends on the grade level. Apparently in this specific instance we're talking about grade 8, which was a little earlier than I thought, I'll admit. Maybe it's just the high school I went to, but by then there were plenty who were already in the mentality I described. Trying to beat the system by getting out of work with no negative impacts was the main priority (it was for me, at least). If we like a class or teacher, okay, we try to be nice to them and all, but that would never be reason for more effort.

Who's talking about everyone? Nothing works one hundred percent all the time for everyone, and I never said it did. However, there are ways of maximizing learning. And I do believe in minimum expectations -- again, why I think the policy is asinine -- however, I think overfocusing on them, whatever they happen to be, is harmful.

Yes, I was (and am) talking about a particular group. All I am saying is that this group is largely lost with a policy like this, with no viable recourse I have seen yet.

[jotabe]

Very similar problem in Spain. Only that in Spain that policy comes from law (hence to be followed in public and semi-private schools).

But this law came because of the position of many Parents Associations: too many parents feel entitled to say that "their child" cannot be failed, because he "words a lot at home".

Yeah right.

But that's how things are over here. It happens ashamingly often that parents threaten or even manhandle the teachers for failing their child, or for punishing their bad behaviour.
Yes, that's right: parents of a child manhandling the teacher. Way to go to teach their "babies" how to respect teachers.

[Gravity Defier]

I've been trying to think of a way to clearly show why this policy upsets me, and I'm hoping this does the trick.

It can all be boiled down to one very simple thing: it is hard for me to look a child in the eyes who struggles with math for one reason or another and say "You earned this 'D'," followed by me turning to another child saying, "You received this 'D'," with it very obviously being their lack of effort.



There are things I can do, sure. I can talk to the child, I can talk to the parent, I can reward in ways that don't involve grades (candy being a strangely effective, but now illegal, way), I can make the grade as participation based as possible, I can offer positive feedback to their classmates (also a really good method of motivation) so that they hear it and want that recognition too, I can try to make class more fun, I can at the very least keep a fast paced class, which in some cases is almost as good as fun...they don't have the time to be bored because I raise their levels of anxiety. Heck, just listening to them talk about things they care about that aren't school related raises the effort in some. I can ensure that the environment is a pleasant, comfortable one -which it is. I have a great relationship with the vast majority of my students.

But there are those rare few who just won't do a thing, all teachers be damned.

And there are even more who are okay with handing in crap or being sporadic with their attempts.

Maybe after a few more years, I'll have the experience to get around this more effectively.

[Slim]

Employee: Uh, you wanted to see me sir?

Boss: Yes. It's that time of year again -- Employee Performance Review time! So, tell me. What did you actually do this year?

Employee: I surfed the internet a lot. Oh, and I went out with that girl from accounting a couple times.

Boss: Uh, no I meant, like, work-related.

Employee: Uhm.... No, I don't think I did any of that .....

Boss: What work did you do before your last Performance Review?

Employee: Oh, I remember that. I wrote a couple spreadsheets for you, to be sure I would get better than a Firing grade.

Boss: Right, right. ... Okay that will be all, thank you.

Employee: Thanks. *leaves*

Boss: *pressing secretary button* Sally? I'm going to fire Fred next week. So you will have to send the Firing notification form to his parents, okay? ... Okay, thanks.

Boss: *sighs while shaking his head*

[ratesjul]

To my mind, if someone gets a 60% grade, they have done (correctly/appropriately) 60% of the work.

Of course, in my world, a 60% is a pass (in NZ, anything over 50% is a pass. Some courses have a 45% mark for a pass, others have 48-50% as a restricted pass... but on the whole, 50% is a pass). Which means that, as long as you know at least half the material you pass - which makes sense to me.

In sixth form there was some sort of rule that said you would fail if you didn't submit every assignment. So some of the students in my english class submitted blank sheets of paper with their names on them, when the teacher reminded them they hadn't submitted that assignment (at a point at which it was so overdue they would have gotten a 0 for returning a proper assignment anyway).

So, being unable to score a 0% seems laughable to me.

Maybe the rule needs to be revised so that you can 'drop' the worst one or two grades?

[neo-dragon]

It saddens me to say this on the third week in, but I can already see the kids who I will likely be failing. They're not the kids who aren't bright, they are the ones who have lousy attitudes and absolutely no respect for the students who do want to learn. What's more, they sit in class, do nothing (or worse, do things that disrupt the class) and smugly assume that it is my duty to pass them. I will work hard to change their attitudes. Failing that, I will fail them, and hope that someone; be it the students themselves, their parents, or an administrator, dares to ask me why.

Actually, I know I won't have problems with the administration. It didn't take me long to realize that I'm lucky enough to be at a school run by people with good heads on their shoulders.

[Gravity Defier]

They're not the kids who aren't bright, they are the ones who have lousy attitudes and absolutely no respect for the students who do want to learn. What's more, they sit in class, do nothing (or worse, do things that disrupt the class) and smugly assume that it is my duty to pass them.

In general, I've found it's the brightest students who behave this way.



I am jealous, of course, of your administration for them taking your side on this. Mine would take my side in the end, but I'd have to work really hard for it in the case of grades.