Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows SPOILER Thread

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Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows SPOILER Thread

Postby Jayelle » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:45 pm

<<<SPOILER ALERT>>>
If the title of the thread isn't enough for you, this is the thread to post all the thoughts you have on Harry Potter- spoilers aplenty.



I'm only on page 81, and I can't believe that already Hedwig and Mad Eye are both dead.

I'll be back when I'm done.
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Postby anonshadow » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:27 pm

I'll be in mourning for Fred for weeks. And George's ear.



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Postby Qing_Jao » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:25 pm

Finished the whole thing, and seriously. She needs to be an honorary Inkling. The stuff she crammed in there.... Whooo.













*************spoiler****************
Like dying to save everybody, but not really being dead. Like Draco and Snape being more than they seemed. Like freakin' Kreacher!!!! Oh, my goodness. What does a little kindness do?
Yeah. Smacked of Ransom and the Unman, or Mt. Doom itself to me. Yet much more. Well, at least modernized with current teenage angst and cares and current feelings.... And, the cycle begins anew. You've got the orphan who comes over to the Potter house for supper 4 nights a week, and you've got the serious kids and the Fred (RIP) and George kind... and ... yeah. what a great story.
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Postby VelvetElvis » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:04 pm

You could have knocked me over with a feather when Mrs. Weasley said that very dirty word.
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Postby Young Val » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:51 pm

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows is the greatest disappointment of my life.



i absolutely LOATHED it.



and not just because i was nearly wrong about everything, either.



i'll be back when i've collected my thoughts. i'm actually in mourning right now. i can't believe she wrote such absolute rubbish.

i keep hoping the one i've been given is a fake...
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby locke » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:16 pm

I thought it was not perfect but excellent, a wonderful climax to a six book set up.

Honestly I wouldn't mind if she went back and rewrote all seven, cleaning up the plotting, taking out the epic digressionary explanations and piecing them out over one long story, but at the same time I love that those are such an integral part of her style and Deathly Hallows is a uniquely Jo Book.

I think there needs to be a new term in literature for how she writes endings. Deus ex machina doesn't incompass it, it's more like a giant shakespearian soliloquey but as dialogue/conversation between two people while the action stops completely to give us backstory in the middle of the climax. Some would call that bad writing. I think it's great, personally. I nominated calling these new endings, rowlings in her honor.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby Young Val » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:21 pm

I think there needs to be a new term in literature for how she writes endings. Deus ex machina doesn't incompass it, it's more like a giant shakespearian soliloquey but as dialogue/conversation between two people while the action stops completely to give us backstory in the middle of the climax. Some would call that bad writing. I think it's great, personally. I nominated calling these new endings, rowlings in her honor.

i can't... i can't even form thoughts right now. i don't mind climaxes occuring through dialogue but THIS was just so... it's all... it was rubbish. it was absolute and total rubbish. the whole thing was one huge retcon of her ENTIRE SERIES.

she broke ALL her own rules. it was mythological masturbation. it was HORRID and i really think my heart's been broken.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby Janus%TheDoorman » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:35 pm

I'll agree that the ending of the book, from about the point where we find out Harry's supposed to be a Horcrux onward was the kind of canon-futzing that would have comic fans up in arms, and was probably written as an attempt to reconcile her original ending, where I really wouldn't be suprised to learn that Harry died and stayed dead, and the fans pleas to keep him alive.

Not that I didn't like it, mind you. Dramatically, it was a pretty gripping read, and suspense was built well, I thought.
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Postby Young Val » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:36 pm

Yes.


page 686.


from that point on it was ash in my mouth.



and i was actually enjoying it until then......



god, i am so devastated.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby locke » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:52 pm

I was never that invested into the debate over whether or not Harry was a horcrux, I was surprised that he was but not shattered. The way Rowling wrote everything made sense to me, her storytelling worked, imo.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby Young Val » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:09 am

i tried to sleep, but i'm just too upset.

still too muddled to give coherent voice to my thoughts, but figured i'd mention a few things.

i swear a lot. and may often be snarky. or just plain mean. and perhaps a touch irrational, but only about some things.





Things I Liked:

-all the Ron/Hermione moments, particularly the kiss.

-Lupin's on-air codename (Romulus).

-the Malfoys' fate.

-Dobby's death (not that i liked it per se, but that it was well-done and very emotional for me, but in a positive way).

-seeing a variety of Patronuses.

-Snape (excluding his death scene, which was weak).

-Kreacher.




Things I Hated

-RETCON!Dumbledore

-Lupin (always a favorite of mine! JKR decided to make everyone an a******, apparently) and Harry's treatment of him.

-the fact that all Hermione does on-page is cry and cook mushrooms.

-the fact that Neville is barely in the damn thing.

-the fact that almost EVERY SINGLE DEATH happens off-page.

-Voldemort is not scary in this book. at. all.

-hi, i'd like to buy a contradiction, please? (ex. Hermione: "I just totally wiped my parents' memories!" 5 min. later: "I've never done a memory spell before!" or The Sorting Hat is engulfed in flames! oh, wait, NINETEEN YEARS LATER it's actually fine. just kidding. or Making a Horcrux is seriously advanced Dark magic. Oh, wait, apparently you can MAKE ONE BY ACCIDENT AND NOT EVEN KNOW IT. ad infinitum).

-Fenrir Greyback: KO or just unconscious after being hit with a crystal ball? the world may never know. (ok, honestly, Lupin doesn't kill him? Really?)

-Bellatrix gets killed by MOLLY WEASLEY?!?!?! but not before Molly can call her a bitch! frankly, this would be more believable if Ginny did it herself. (Although, come the f*** on. we all wanted Neville to duke it out with Bella, didn't we? God damn, where the hell are all the BATTLES?!)

-SPEAKING OF GINEVRA all i have to say about that is what. the. f***. we spend the entire 6th book dealing with Ginny's sassy grow-a-personality for...........what, again? cause, that's right, she does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in this book. "oooo blah blah, Ginny's such a powerful witch. blah, blah, Ginny is sooo good at hexes." and now it's "Ginny stay here and don't come out till you're told!!" Book 6 Ginny: f*** You! :::Hex! Jinx! Hex! Jinx!::: but wait.... this is Book 7 Ginny. so i guess it's more like: :::scuffle, scuffle:: awwwright. shucks.

-Snape's death SUCKED. he had to die, and i always knew it. but he gets swallowed by snake so that Voldemort can have the uber!wand?!?! come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-Harry is a Horcrux. i'll never forgive her for that. it breaks ALL HER OWN RULES.

-not only is Harry a freakin' Horcrux, but he dies and comes back to life. HE DIES AND COMES BACK TO LIFE. i.... i can't even... ARGH.

-Hey! Wanna see my dark mystical evil object that i am fated to destroy but which i haven't yet figured out how to destroy so in the meantime i wear it round my neck and it makes me a bit of a psycho if i wear it too long? it's my One Ring of Power-I-MEAN-Locket Horcrux!

-Harry uses Unforgivable Curses. Often. Um, no.

-the epilogue. Snape? the bravest man Harry's ever known?! and i know Ginny has a penchant for obnoxious names, but Albus Severus?! Rose and HUGO?! i am throwing up in my mouth. also: if Teddy Lupin hangs out at Harry's place four times a week, where the f*** does he go the rest of the time?!?!?! he's a freakin' ORPHAN and Harry is his GODFATHER.

-The last bit of the proper book (pre-crappy-epilogue-that-doesn't-tell-us-a-damn-thing-about-what-the-kids-grow-up-to-DO-other-than-have-children). and i quote:
"That wand is more trouble than it's worth, said Harry. "And quite honestly," he turned away from the painted portraits, thinking now only of the four-poster bed lying waiting for him in Gryffindor Tower, and wondering whether Kreacher might bring him a sandwich there, "I've had enough trouble for a lifetime."
my emphasis.

and sandwich. a FREAKING SANDWICH?

i've retitled two of Jo's books, now. book five is Harry Potter and the Capslock of Rage, and book seven is Harry Potter and the Long Awaited Sandwich.



there's so much more. but i can't bear it.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby anonshadow » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:33 am

-the fact that all Hermione does on-page is cry and cook mushrooms.
Um, and pull dozens of things out of her perfectly packed bag, and do research, and do all kinds of planning and magic to get them out of trouble.

-hi, i'd like to buy a contradiction, please? (ex. Hermione: "I just totally wiped my parents' memories!" 5 min. later: "I've never done a memory spell before!" or The Sorting Hat is engulfed in flames! oh, wait, NINETEEN YEARS LATER it's actually fine. just kidding. or Making a Horcrux is seriously advanced Dark magic. Oh, wait, apparently you can MAKE ONE BY ACCIDENT AND NOT EVEN KNOW IT. ad infinitum).
The Hermione thing was a mess up, but I suspect the Sorting Hat wasn't. I'm sure it's possible to repair it, and maybe it has some kind of magic that keeps it from going smush in the first place. I also think that saying that a Horcrux is seriously advanced Dark Magic doesn't rule out that something like Voldemort could splinter sometimes--Harry wasn't really a true Horcrux. He didn't have enough of the soul in him for that. I think the point of that was that Voldemort was so twisted and deformed that he didn't even notice when his increasingly unstable soul got more and more damaged and destroyed.

-SPEAKING OF GINEVRA all i have to say about that is what. the. f***. we spend the entire 6th book dealing with Ginny's sassy grow-a-personality for...........what, again? cause, that's right, she does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in this book. "oooo blah blah, Ginny's such a powerful witch. blah, blah, Ginny is sooo good at hexes." and now it's "Ginny stay here and don't come out till you're told!!" Book 6 Ginny: f*** You! :::Hex! Jinx! Hex! Jinx!::: but wait.... this is Book 7 Ginny. so i guess it's more like: :::scuffle, scuffle:: awwwright. shucks.
Honestly, that didn't bother me as much. She did come out fighting eventually, and that she waited a bit says more about her respecting her terrified and stressed out mother's wishes than anything--and I don't think that's a bad thing.

-not only is Harry a freakin' Horcrux, but he dies and comes back to life. HE DIES AND COMES BACK TO LIFE. i.... i can't even... ARGH.
Well, I'm not sure he's every technically dead, and I certainly think that she set it up well.

-Harry uses Unforgivable Curses. Often. Um, no.
He really doesn't. Sometimes, yes. Not often.

-the epilogue. Snape? the bravest man Harry's ever known?! and i know Ginny has a penchant for obnoxious names, but Albus Severus?! Rose and HUGO?! i am throwing up in my mouth. also: if Teddy Lupin hangs out at Harry's place four times a week, where the f*** does he go the rest of the time?!?!?! he's a freakin' ORPHAN and Harry is his GODFATHER.
I disliked many of the names, but it is in keeping with the Weasleys, who are, in fact, named things like "Ronald Bilius." Beyond that, Teddy Lupin is nineteen or twenty--I'm sure that he's moved out of wherever he grew up by now.



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Postby Young Val » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:01 am

perhaps. there's every chance i'll like it loads better if i read again.

and i'll concede that Hermione DOES do more than cook and cry. but i did wish that she had a bit more to do. it really bothered me that she had such a subdued role in this book. and when she finally gets to destroy a horcrux, it happens off-page.

Harry uses Imperius at least four or five times, which, to me, after never using them at all, is often.

i don't know. much of that post is emotional gut reaction. but i'm not sure that i wouldn't maintain a lot of it, if given a week to get over my trauma.


i need to read it again.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby Nova » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:08 pm

i thought that, overall, it was excellent. i'm really glad that Snape trustworthy. Before Harry "died", when his parents came to him was so sad. i was crying, and completely fell apart when he asked if it hurt. i kinda wish he stayed dead though. i also didnt like the epilogue. the book would have been better without it. i also wish, that there was more about George after Fred died, because they were so close.

i'll have more to say once i think it over for a while. those were my immediate, and broken up thoughts.
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Postby VelvetElvis » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:15 pm

i Before Harry "died", when his parents came to him was so sad. i was crying, and completely fell apart when he asked if it hurt.
me too. *sniff*
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Postby Hawkblaze » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:04 pm

OK, I loved it. I'll post a fuller review a little later. But I have one very real problem:

How the hell did Neville get a hold of Gryffindor's sword? The last we heard, Griphook had taken it, right? Unless it's not Gryffindor's sword, just another blade with rubies in the hilt?

I'm going to check if she says anything about it again...

EDIT: STRIKE THAT!!!

Idiot...he pulled it from the Sorting Hat. I read too effin fast.
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Postby Petra456 » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:17 pm

I just finished it less then ten minutes ago...

When i've stopped crying I might be able really think about it, but I love it.

.... Fred : (


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Postby Nova » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:26 pm

i kinda wish he stayed dead though.
i changed my mind. i've thought it over and i decided i like it the way it is.
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Postby human. » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:35 pm

I loved the book.. though it seemed too full. I found myself wondering how Harry was going to find all the Horcruxes and defeat, or be defeated by, Lord Voldemort within the span only 784 pages. I loved Neville, even though there wasn't too much of him until a bit at the end. But what bothered, though I wouldn't say annoyed, me is how little Snape was mentioned (for the role of answering what side he was on). I mean, he informs Voldemort that Harry will be moved from Privet Drive in the begining, we hear about him becoming Headmaster of Hogwarts from the Prophet (I think) and at the end with his flight, death and memories.. Anyway. I just thought he might be a larger presence..
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Postby thelostwiggin » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:41 pm

I really liked the book altogether except for the fact that every time Harry is in grave danger, Rowling always puts in some strange deus ex machina that rescues Harry and makes everything right just in the knick of time. I mean it can happen maybe once or twice. But Harry gets lucky as f*** in almost every chapter.

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Postby Janus%TheDoorman » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:26 pm

Were the golden flames that saved Harry from Voldemort in the beginning ever properly explained?
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Postby Eaquae Legit » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:14 pm

I put stickies in the book as I went, to remind myself what I wanted to comment on. It's not in front of me right now, so I have a relatively few comments.

I liked Dudley. There's no explanation for his change of heart, given that he was sure Harry had cast a spell on him in book 5, except perhaps Harry's repeated attempts to get them safe in book 7. But I liked it.

Snape. DUH. OF COURSE he was good. It would have been against every narrative convention for him to have been a bad guy all along. The bit about Lily was a nice touch, however. Sad he died so ignominiously.

The afterward. GEEZ. One tiny chapter to tell us what we already knew?! Gah. GAH. WHAT HAPPENED TO EVERYONE ELSE? Did George continue the prank shop, or did he spiral into a deep depression and die a lonely death drowning in a vat of butterbeer? Who was the new Headmaster? WHAT does Harry DO for a living? Does he actually have a job somewhere, or does he rest on his laurels and the lucrative sponsorship contracts? How long does it take to sort out the imperius-cursed Voldy supporters from actual Death Eaters? HOW ON EARTH did Draco escape life in Azkaban? And who guards Azkaban these days, anyway? All the young folks who fought and killed for the first time, how many ended up in St. Mungo's with PTSD? So many questions. Rowling should have taken a page from Eddings, and devoted half a book to wrapping up the loose ends.

One of Harry, Ron, or Hermione (at LEAST one) should have died. Epics don't have happy, cheery endings. The world has been picked up and shaken and some bits have broken and no matter what you do, it's never the same after. The Dark is Rising series had an appropriate ending. It was sad and I hated it, but it was RIGHT.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh, and when Ron gives Harry his birthday present, was I the only one who thought his description of it sounded dirtier than Rowling probably intended?
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Postby Ua Lava » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:15 pm

Were the golden flames that saved Harry from Voldemort in the beginning ever properly explained?
Dumbledore tried to explain it in the dead/not dead place, I think. I read the book in 8 hours so it's a little hazy.
The Sorting Hat is engulfed in flames! oh, wait, NINETEEN YEARS LATER it's actually fine.
According to the Tale of the Three Brothers, Harry's suddenly super-powerful-ancient-magical-cloak (I'll talk about my hatred of the Hallows later) can block off any spell or charm. Again, not entirely sure on this.

Opinions:

Things that were good:

Ron/Hermione scenes, especially the kiss

Neville.

Mrs. Wealsey's swearing. I couldn't believe she wrote that. This is children's literature!

Dobby. The rescue was great. His death was the one with the most emotional punch. I never would have guessed it.

Snape is good! A Prince's Tale was the best chapter, both for revealing Snape's past but also for sending Harry down one of the paths of the Hero ...

Things that were bad:

... until King's Cross completely derailed it. Harry was going to die. He was a Horcrux, or had a part of Voldemort's soul in him, and he had to die. He accepted it. Rowling accepted it. I believe originally she had Harry dying. But millions and millions of Potter fans wouldn't.

So she created the Hallows, the items that prevent their owner from death. With the magic of deus ex machina, Harry is the owner of all three before he dies. Therefore, he doesn't die. WHAT THE F***!!??

Stop reading the book when Harry dies, that's the ending of the book. I don't care if Rowling wrote after he died. The seven books chronicle the journey of Harry Potter. That journey ends when he dies; unfortunately, he dies much later than he expected.
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Postby Young Val » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:47 pm

but what does Harry's cloak being indestructible have to do with the Sorting Hat? Nothing, that's what. if the hat was enchanted in such a way that it was indestructable as well (and if so, then wouldn't it never wear? we're specifically told it's patched and frayed), then it never would have caught fire in the first place. and while i love Neville and am glad Gryffindor embraced him (only a true Gryffindor can get the sword from the hat), how the hell did the hat get the sword from Griphook? the contradictions kill me. who the hell edited this?!?! the Secret Keeper charm is another! JK changes the rules of that freakin' charm every single time she uses it!


it's been 24+ hours and i'm in the middle of my second read and the anger just increases. Rowling commited character assasignation on just about every mentor Harry ever had. she ret-conned her ENTIRE series. and she deus-ex-machina-ed the hell out of absolutely everything. it's just horrible horrible execution. i'm so so depressed. the fact that i'm in the minority makes it so much worse. i just don't see how this book was satisfactory.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby Hawkblaze » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:46 pm

I was gonna write a absolutely glowing tribute to JKR and this series, but some of the posts here have made me rethink it.

But there are some parts in this seventh book that I absolutely love, no matter how clumsily the ending is executed.

First, the little tidbits that JKR gives away detailing her political/moral leanings are fascinating. The subplot with Dumbledore and Grindelwald will make any libertarian-leaning conservative (i.e. me) smile. "For the greater good": that's the excuse every revolutionary despot in history has given to justify his evil means and totalitarian ideologies. Besides this subplot, it's obvious that JKR has a--I would call it healthy--distrust of government, as the performance of the Ministry throughout the series suggests.

And speaking of Dumbledore, I loved his character development throughout the book. In fact, JKR's treatment of his character is the most impressive part of this novel. Instead of leaving him as the mostly infallible wise elder mentor, we see that he had real flaws and saw his fascinating evolution from a proponent of "for the greater good" to the protector of muggles and the disenfranchised peoples of the magical world.

Dobby's death stunned me not because I wasn't expecting it, but for the emotional impact it had on me. My eyes were welling up as I read that passage, and I had to stop reading for the night. I really hope the movie producers will put him into movies 6 and 7.

More to come...
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Postby starlooker » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:30 pm

I have quite a bit more to say, but I'll start here:

Re: the sorting hat.

If you'll notice, nobody at Hogwarts got hurt after Harry sacrificed himself. None of the jinxes took hold -- Neville broke out of the body bind immediately and wasn't harmed by the flames. Harry, in fact, tells Voldemort this before their big duel. I took this to mean that Harry's sacrifice worked for the school as his mother's sacrifice worked for him -- that while they were in his home, Voldemort could not harm them there. And, therefore, the sorting hat wasn't harmed, nor was Neville, nor anyone else.

~~~~

Re: names of children

I absolutely loathe the names, "Harry" "Ron" and "Hermione." Every single book I've bought, I've gone, "What the hell kind of name is Harry Potter for a hero?" Further, we have Fred, George, Molly, Ginny, etc. Every name that isn't symbolic is, frankly, mundane and kind of dumb. (No offense to any Harrys, Rons, Hermiones, Freds, Georges, Mollys, or Ginnys who may be reading.) So, frankly, if she'd given the kids good names, I would have wondered what the hell was wrong. Also, being, like Hermione, a person who's name is constantly mispronounced and misspelled, should I ever have kids, they are damn sure going to have unmistakable, simple names -- although, I don't think I'd go with Rose or Hugo.

Re: Dumbledore.

I loved getting Dumbledore's backstory. I do not find it inconsistent with his character. I loved seeing him as three dimensional. It's a process I'm going through/have gone through with supervisors of mine -- that, as the relationship progresses and you become more collegial, they become more fallable -- and they let you see more. I thought this was beautiful.

Re: Kreacher

Wonderful. I nearly cried when they weren't going to be able to return to him. The thought of him people he trusted yet again was horrible for me.

Re: Dobby.

I sobbed my head off. I think it will be a long time before I can read that and not cry.

Re: The epilogue

Sucked. Sucked a lot. Sucked TONS. I mean, yes, nice in a full circle kind of way, but could we have had maybe an add-on with a paragraph about each character/institution so I'm not going, "But -- who's the headmaster? Since Harry's not an auror, what is he? Did they go back to Hogwarts and finish their 7th year and do NEWTs?"
There's another home somewhere,
There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
into the wind, unafraid.
There's another life out there...

~~Mary Chapin Carpenter

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Postby LilBee91 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:29 pm

I think it was Ron and Neville that took down Greyback. It was part of the paragraph that listed the not-very-dramatic downfall of most of the Death Eaters. But yea...I really wanted a werewolf duel. I guess we can't have revenge for every character; it would be a bit unrealistic, but still.

Molly was awesome, so while I was ticked that Neville didn't get his revenge, I was satisfied. Yea...don't mess with mothers. Still, most of the deaths weren't dramatic enough in the final battle. Except poor Fred *bawls.* Maybe the movie will show us all the major deaths to make up for it. I mean, why does it always have to be from Harry's point of view? I want to see how Lupin died!!!

I didn't really like the Harry-Horcrux thing, but I've gotten over it. The Hallows were odd, but I found them intriguing. And, I don't know if it means much, but Harry basically survived off luck for the first 6 books. Yea, he had skill, but in most of the major battles it was some quirk (don't think that's quite the right word, but...), like love or twin wand cores or phoenix tears, that saved him. I don't see why the 7th should be much different. Harry is a very special boy. The universe can always find ways to save his rear.

Percy's redemption and the R/Hr kiss made me ecstatic beyond all reason (I'm talking squealing, kicking legs, rolling around, etc).

I loved Kreacher.

While reading Harry and Voldemort's final battle I had a very strong desire to see it on screen. Unfortunately, movie 7 is years away. :(

Okay, I admit, the Epilogue was a bit unbelievably cheery, but it made me feel better. After Fred and Lupin and Tonks I was miserable. Besides, I would have died if Ron did. True, I would have been just fine if Harry stayed dead, but Ron.... I'm so happy he survived. And yes, while there were a ton of unanswered questions, I liked it.

Also, I distinctly remember reading a fanfiction where Ron and Hermione had a kid named Rose, and reading that name in the epilogue really creeped me out. But I have no idea what that story was about, where I read it, or if it even exists. But it was creepy. I had a terrible image of JKR writing fanfiction for the past 10 years and posting it online under various names.

I was kind of sad that so much of the end was predicted right after HBP--Snape/Lily, Harry-Horcrux, DD planned his death, etc. (particularly because I rather disliked the first two theories). But, I can deal with it.

Maybe after a second reading I'll change my mind, but for now I loved Deathly Hallows. It wasn't perfect, but it was a fitting end.

Oh, I am now an avid Voldetrix (or Bellamort) shipper. I mean, they had to have some affair going on, or something.
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Postby Petra456 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:39 pm

Dobby's death was the hardest for me. All the other ones I was sad, and my eyes did water, but I was full out crying when Dobby died.
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Postby LilBee91 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:09 pm

Dobby's death shocked me too much for me to cry at first. But when they burried him and gave him their clothes.... That was so heartwrenching.

I think Fred's was the worst for me though. I just kept thinking about how there is no need to tell him and George apart anymore. It was awful. He was the first to forgive Percy. He died with a laugh on his face, and I don't know if that makes it any better or not.

Also, maybe I missed something, but I thought it was Lily's sacrifice that kept Harry from dying (again), not the Hallows. Must reread.
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Postby Young Val » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:12 pm

Also, maybe I missed something, but I thought it was Lily's sacrifice that kept Harry from dying (again), not the Hallows. Must reread.
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Postby starlooker » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:33 pm

It does so make sense.

In my head, anyways, if not on paper.

Kelly, I probably shouldn't be amused, seeing as how your heart is broken, but the total snippiness about each and every little thing wrong with the book (given that many of these are generally things that are wrong in all the other books as well) is striking me as -- like how I act when I'm really pissed off at an actual person.

In relationship counseling, it's called "negative sentiment override." When the relationship has soured to the point where stuff that would strike most people as neutral strikes the relationship partner as unbearable and/or malicious. Perhaps you and HP7 should seek professional help.

(The opposite, by the way, "positive sentiment override" is probably the reason that flaws were ignorable before p. 686, or if acknowledged, didn't seem so bad. That's when what most people see as neutral or slightly negative strikes you as endearing or well-meant.)

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There's another life out there...

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Postby Young Val » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:43 pm

oh absolutely. that's exactly it. and i'm sure it is funny on the outside.

there's plenty wrong with the rest of the book, and certainly the series. Rowling is endlessly creative, and very funny, but a genius writer she's not.

i admit to putting more faith in her than she apparently deserved. the last 200 pages of DEATHLY HALLOWS may as well have been written by a prepubescent fangirl. everyone is completely out of character. especially Harry and Voldemort! Rowling's characters are so well-done that they know how they WANT to behave, and yet she shepards them in another direction entirely against their wills.

i have no patience for an author who creates a world entirely of her own design, and claims to have known the direction of this series from the get-go, and doesn't make her own ending plausible within the rules of the universe SHE created!!!!!!!!!! it's not as though she's breaking MY rules! she made them up herself!!!!!!


i acutally feel like i'm in mourning over the wreck of this book. i loved this series SO hard and SO long and i just can't believe that THIS is the big ending we've all been waiting for. god, i'm so miserable.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
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hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby locke » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:29 pm

it made sense to me, Harry didn't die. Voldemort strengthened the magic of Lily's sacrifice so when he attacked Harry with the avada kevadra voldemort only destroyed himself. At this point Harry had the choice to die as well, or return with Voldemort only having Nagini and his own body as a horcrux. if Harry had chosen to die, Nagini would have still lived but I think Voldemort would have 'died'

someone else said this on another forum and I loved it:
She also really did rack up a body count across the entire series, and absolutely NOBODY got to have a "big death scene". Death was always quick and ugly, without romance or preamble. That was even more true in DH, and age-independent. I didn't mind it per se, but I think some fans will wish for more with regards to a few of the people lost. But that hasn't been her style.
...and...
The deaths came out of nowhere, when least expected, and to whom I least expected. Brutal, cold, and fast, they were all too real... No "For Your Consideration"-type award-bait deathbed scenes, just the senseless suddenness of death. Horrible to read, but I appreciated the reality they brought to the proceedings.
...and...
The three brothers in the fairy tale are Voldemort, Albus Dumbledore, and Harry. Voldemort seeks the wand, to fight death. Dumbledore seeks the stone, to find peace from death. Harry seeks the cloak, to face death on his own terms. Voldemort was terrified of death. Dumbledore was tortured by it. Only Harry refused to allow it to define him. He did not allow his parents' death to sentence him like, like Dumbledore did with Ariana's. When the time comes to face Voldemort for the final time, it's no coincidence that Harry's appears from under his Cloak — nor that Voldemort wields the Elder Wand. They are just completing the fairy tale, if a bit out of sequence.

I love the names, James Sirius and Albus Severus, and I bet Lily's middle name is Ariana.

I love Luna's painting. Dobby's death, Ginny's birthday present (ron's birthday present, naughty naughty), Ron v. locket, the kiss, how harry used the stone, king's cross, mrs. weasley, "I think we sort too soon", story of the hallows, aberforth explaining about the rape. Albus' failures. camping, Neville! etc.

I was saddened Ginny wasn't in the book, but she had the Trace on her, she couldn't have followed along if she wanted to, I think that's why we got so much Ginny last book. :)
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby Young Val » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:35 pm

so you fall in the "Ariana was raped" camp.

i can't decide. it's the only thing that makes sense in a way... what else oculd have been THAT damaging... but she was so young, and the muggle boys in question were also so young... i'm somewhat hesitant to believe JKR meant that to be the "trauma."
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant

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Postby Petra456 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:44 pm

It never even crossed my mind that it could have been rape until you said something. I still don't believe it, I just assumed they beat her.

Edit:

Also, am I missing something here? So the whole Vail thing, was that really, honestly nothing? Seriously, am I missing something?
Last edited by Petra456 on Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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And there will come a time, you'll see, with no more tears.
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Get over your hill and see what you find there,
With grace in your heart and flowers in your hair.


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