Why Elijah?

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Why Elijah?

Postby Qing_Jao » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:24 pm

I was reading the crucifixion story in Mark last night, and after Jesus says, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" (quoted from memory, perhaps not exact), people on the ground say, "He's calling for Elijah, perhaps." I noticed this in Matthew too.

Why Elijah? Does it have something to do with Psalm 22, which he quotes there? Or is it a traditional thing? I can't think of anything in the story of Elijah that would draw attention to make someone think Elijah would rescue them from this kind of situation.

Anybody have any ideas?
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Postby Rei » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:40 pm

I'm not a hundred percent certain that this applies, but it may. The Jews believe that when the moshiach comes, Moses and Elijah will make a return. (Ela or someone correct me if I am not fully accurate on this?) In the light of this passage, I would expect the people below are thinking, "He really did think that he was the moshiach, and now as he dies, he is pleading for Elijah to come to show to us that he really is the moshiach." I'll have an opportunity to find out more clearly tomorrow, hopefully.
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Postby Jayelle » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:55 pm

The end of Malachi (the last book in the NT) talks about Elijah returning before the Christ comes. Christians believe that person is John the Baptist, Jews believe he is still coming (and leave an empty chair at Passover).
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Postby Rei » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:00 pm

There was also the Transfiguration where Moses and Elijah came back, although I suppose that was not before the coming of Jesus.
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Postby jotabe » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:56 am

If i am not wrong, the reason is because Jesus said it in hebrew: "Eli, Eli, lama sabaktani". (Eli is a possesive declinative form of Elohim, the word for god).
Alas, in the times of the Empire, very few jews still knew hebrew (aramaic was the majoritary language, i believe), so they confused "Eli" with "Eliah", because they sound similar.

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Postby Bowenzinho » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:00 pm

Jayelle wrote:The end of Malachi (the last book in the NT) talks about Elijah returning before the Christ comes. Christians believe that person is John the Baptist, Jews believe he is still coming (and leave an empty chair at Passover).


Just want to throw in that beliefs about Elijah vary from denomination to denomination. The LDS church beleives that Elijah visited Joseph Smith in the Kirtland temple in 1836. The reason that he came was to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers. The church believes that this is done through sealing families to each other for time and eternity.
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Postby hive_king » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:31 pm

What if you make a mistake and marry someone it turns out you just can't stand?
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby jotabe » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:48 am

hive_king wrote:What if you make a mistake and marry someone it turns out you just can't stand?


Uh... wrong thread? :stoned:

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Postby hive_king » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:41 am

The church believes that this is done through sealing families to each other for time and eternity.
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby Qing_Jao » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:01 pm

jotabe wrote:If i am not wrong, the reason is because Jesus said it in hebrew: "Eli, Eli, lama sabaktani". (Eli is a possesive declinative form of Elohim, the word for god).
Alas, in the times of the Empire, very few jews still knew hebrew (aramaic was the majoritary language, i believe), so they confused "Eli" with "Eliah", because they sound similar.

See, I'm not sure I buy this. Every little boy from the time he could talk memorized the Torah in Hebrew. So, I'm not sure about that.
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Postby Rei » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:24 pm

It is possible, especially if they figured he expected Elijah. Afterall, someone who is experiencing considerable breathing difficulties and some dehydration may have difficulty speaking very clearly.
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Postby Bowenzinho » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:40 pm

I guess Jota thinks we're guilty of thread hijacking HK. If you really want, we can start another thread about LDS sealings and discuss it there.
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Postby jotabe » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:22 am

Sorry, bowen and h_k, i hadn't seen that. Thread hi-jacking is a perfectly admissible behaviour imho :D

Btw Qing_jao, my dad, when he was a child, he knew how to say his mass phrases in latin. They were memorized. That doesn't mean he knew latin, or how to declinate nouns and conjugate verbs. Actually he didn't even know what he was saying.
Maybe jewish children by then knew by heart fragments of the torah. Probably they knew what it meant. But that doesn't mean that adults without education would know hebrew language (that is, grammar), since it wasn't spoken anymore.

Those comments from people around crucifixion also prove that they didn't get Jesus' quotation from the sacred texts.

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Postby Jayelle » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:29 pm

Bowenzinho wrote:
Jayelle wrote:The end of Malachi (the last book in the NT) talks about Elijah returning before the Christ comes. Christians believe that person is John the Baptist, Jews believe he is still coming (and leave an empty chair at Passover).


Just want to throw in that beliefs about Elijah vary from denomination to denomination. The LDS church beleives that Elijah visited Joseph Smith in the Kirtland temple in 1836. The reason that he came was to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers. The church believes that this is done through sealing families to each other for time and eternity.


That's why I said "Christian" and not LDS.
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Postby Jebus » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:39 pm

Mormons being fake-Christians, afterall.

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Postby Sparrowhawk » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:21 pm

And Christians being fake Jews.
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Postby Rei » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:17 am

I was waiting for that.
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Postby Qing_Jao » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:51 am

I actually talked to a guy named Daniel Goldstein who's a Messianic Jew, and he was mentioning in his presentation of the Passover that they leave a place for Elijah at the table, and leave the door open a bit, to make sure that if he wants to come in, he may. My thought was that they might have been wondering if he was calling for Elijah as he was the forerunner of Messiah. Hoping to get him out of the mess, or something. He thought that might have been possible.

Jota, if all you're doing is reciting it on Sunday, Yeah, I could see that. But they went to school for a few years to learn the laws.
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Postby piers_styx » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:21 pm

The end of Malachi (the last book in the NT) talks about Elijah returning before the Christ comes. Christians believe that person is John the Baptist, Jews believe he is still coming (and leave an empty chair at Passover).
That's not quite true. Mormons think it literally was Elijah, who returned to Joseph Smith. Born -Again Christians of the Tim LaHaye variety believe Elijah will return as one of the two prophets in Jerusalem on the edge of Armageddon. Things are varied.
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Postby piers_styx » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:23 pm

If i am not wrong, the reason is because Jesus said it in hebrew: "Eli, Eli, lama sabaktani". (Eli is a possesive declinative form of Elohim, the word for god).
Alas, in the times of the Empire, very few jews still knew hebrew (aramaic was the majoritary language, i believe), so they confused "Eli" with "Eliah", because they sound similar.
See, I'm not sure I buy this. Every little boy from the time he could talk memorized the Torah in Hebrew. So, I'm not sure about that.
Also Elijah in Greek is Elias, very verbally similar to Eli. The learned Jews may very well have known Greek, having experienced Hellenistic rule, and thought Jesus was crying out in Greek as well.
"The consolations of philosophy are many, but never enough." -Mazer Rackham, pg. 161, The Shadow of The Giant


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