Lent

[anonshadow]

I have a friend who isn't Catholic (but is Christian) who always gives up something for Lent.

[Sibyl]

Anglicans and Episcopalians and Lutherans at least do Lent, and maybe Methodists do (they're descended from Anglicans). (Episcopalians also have a twitch about that word "Catholic" when used to apply only to Roman Catholics, especially since we say and mean the Creeds (the Apostles' is most of our Baptismal Vows), and the Nicene every week, and the Apostles' in Daily Offices's, and the Athanasian in occasional services. See? It's a twitch: I felt the need to compulsively correct even in a question which didn't have much to do with that! )

Anyway, Episcopalians don't have an institutional requirement on particular things to do, as RCs have to give up meat on Fridays of Lent (used to be _every_ Friday, and _every_ day of Lent), and Eastern Orthodox have extremely legalistic regulations about just which thing to give up when. But most Episcopalians either give up something or take on something, or both. I tried doing a traditional meat-free Lent one year, and thought I was gonna die, and I don't even normally eat as much meat as most Americans by a long shot. I don't tend to do "food" Lents any more: I end up obsessing about lists of ingredients trying to be Pure, and spending more time _wanting_ whatever it is that the Rules say I can't have, than thinking about God. What I'm doing this year is taking up the discipline of my daily study of Saints, and sending a daily "Saints of the Day" post that is the fruit of my studies to my religious Lists. I hope that I'll be able to keep it up after Easter.

[Rei]

I've observed Lent for several years now. In the past I've done different things such as cover my head, or not cut any hair (no shaving, no nothing. This is harder than it sounds). This year is more of a private resolution, although along with it I've started doing a prayer journal every night.

[Seiryu]

I'm protestant and I hadn't even heard about lent until I had a catholic friend.

[Crazy Tim]

I'm a Lutheran(a random branch of protestantism) and i gave up video games for lent.

[hive_king]

I would say you're a bit more than just a random group of protestants. You could even say you were the Original Gangstas of Protestantism.

[VelvetElvis]

My 11-year-old cousin gave up A1 steak sauce. If you knew him you knew what a sacrifice it really was. I tend to give things up, and i think it will be chocolate milk.

[hive_king]

It'd be ranch dressing. Or top ramen. But then I might starve.

[zeroguy]

A Catholic friend of mine gave up Lucky Charms. And several people on my floor are (attempting) giving up masturbation.

[Rei]

Probably a good thing to give up, as they really oughtn't be doing it in the first place...

[zeroguy]

Yeah, I know. Those damn Lucky Charms will be the bane of their spiritual health.

[jotabe]

lucky charms... like the japanese ones?
Anyway, they are clearly elements of a different religion/s, so they really have no place in the room of a christian believer (unless they go heterodox).

[Guest]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rge4eU00aNM

[Rei]

I mean, look at the guy! Clearly demonic.

[Firegirl]

Since I'm not Catholic, I do not see much point in participating in Lent. However (as a protestant) since I believe that the Resurrection of Christ occurred, I am going to try being optimistic, I figure that is going to be quite a feat for me.

[Jayelle]

Wait... are you implying that you think Catholics don't believe in the Resurrection of Christ??


I'm Anglican and I celebrate Lent. It has many "points", Jesus commands us to fast, it helps us in preperation for Easter, it can help to focus on God by giving up on something you love (any time you get a craving for that thing, you can use that time for prayer, meditation, etc) and it's a rememberance of when Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert.

I think Lent is cool. What my church does is runs small groups/bible studies over Lent with the idea of "give up some of your time", which is really difficult.

[Firegirl]

Wait... are you implying that you think Catholics don't believe in the Resurrection of Christ??


I'm Anglican and I celebrate Lent. It has many "points", Jesus commands us to fast, it helps us in preperation for Easter, it can help to focus on God by giving up on something you love (any time you get a craving for that thing, you can use that time for prayer, meditation, etc) and it's a rememberance of when Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert.

I think Lent is cool. What my church does is runs small groups/bible studies over Lent with the idea of "give up some of your time", which is really difficult.

Ooops, absolutely did not mean to say that Catholics do not believe in the Resurrection of Christ. What I meant to say that since I believe in the Resurrection like those who are Catholics, I might as well to something significant as in try to give up pessimism. Like I said before Big oops on my part for not being clear enough.

[Jayelle]

ah.

[Rei]

Wait, Jan... you're Anglican? I could have sworn you were Mennonite! Was that Paul? or did either of you convert? or am I just completely insane?

[Jayelle]

Sorry for the confusion, Rei. I used to go to a Mennonite church (growing up), and I went to Canadian Mennonite University, but now I go to an Anglican church (for the past few years).

Neither Paul nor I are ethnically Mennonite, so we don't feel particularily strong ties to go to one denomination over another.

[Rei]

Ahh, okay. I feel a little more sane now.

[hive_king]

You can be ethnically mennonite?

[Firegirl]

There are people out there who are ethnically Jewish. Why wouldn't there be ethnic Mennonites?

[Eaquae Legit]

Ethnicity isn't always equivalent to racial heritage, h_k. They're often conflated, but one is about biology and the other is about cultural heritage. At least, that's the way we used the terms in classes. I found it a helpful distinction.

[Sparrowhawk]

I think there is still a difference, and that the use of ethnicity to describe a religious denomination which has no regional or cultural background is a bit disingenuous. Jewish as an "ethnicity" is proper because Jewish doesn't necessarily mean a person who observes Jewish religious procedure, just someone whos geneology and background coincides with the people of Isreal, and before that, the Hebrews. Kurds are another example of this. To say that a protestant denomination is an "ethnic" background is a misnomer, to say the least. For example, to be a "Mennonite" is purely a religious label, and has no bearing on the cultural or regional background of the individual; it can be applied or removed based solely on the person's current religious beliefs - just because a person's parents believed in a particular sect or denomination doesn't mean they are 'ethnically ______', with whatever name being in the blank. "Ethnicity" doesn't mean solely a racial background, but race, region and culture play the biggest parts.

[Eaquae Legit]

You're right, it's not as simple as I made it sound. Some of my favourite classes were extended debates on this exact subject. I was just trying to point out that ethnicity can mean more than simply biology.

Certain Protestant groups do have an ethnic component to them. Mennonites, for example, got started in a fairly narrow geographic region, and certain habits, customs, foods, etc. are passed along through to Mennonites today whose actual ancestors converted from outside the racial group.

Catholics often joke about our "guilt complex" - I've even known atheists who have left the religion nod knowingly or grin, and admit they still carry it.

A person can convert to Judaism, and if their children have a Jewish mother (either the convert herself or the convert's wife), then they are ethnically Jewish, by Jewish law. Even if the female convert marries a non-Jew, and the children have not a drop of biologically Jewish blood.

I made it sound too cut-and-dried before, and I should have elaborated more. But it's just as disingenious to say that ethnicity is strictly biological. That's the point I was trying to make. In the States, so many Protestant deominations are "home grown" that it would be silly to call them ethnicities. But not all of them, especially in a country or region where inherited cultural norms and behaviours are more strongly retained. I suspect (though I could be wrong) that the phenomenon is easier to see in Canada, since the emphasis here is on "multiculturalism" rather than the "melting pot."

[Sparrowhawk]

Catholics often joke about our "guilt complex" - I've even known atheists who have left the religion nod knowingly or grin, and admit they still carry it.

Ah, yes. The Catholic altruist/self-sacrifice guilt complex. How delightfully droll.

I made it sound too cut-and-dried before, and I should have elaborated more. But it's just as disingenious to say that ethnicity is strictly biological. That's the point I was trying to make. In the States, so many Protestant deominations are "home grown" that it would be silly to call them ethnicities. But not all of them, especially in a country or region where inherited cultural norms and behaviours are more strongly retained. I suspect (though I could be wrong) that the phenomenon is easier to see in Canada, since the emphasis here is on "multiculturalism" rather than the "melting pot."

I just think that 200-300 years is not nearly enough time for an 'ethnicity' to arise from nothing. Even in a heterogenous society like Canada.

[Rei]

There are certainly some things I would say to be culturally or ethnically Mennonite. Need I mention watermelon and zwieback? farmer sausage on a bun? My mum says she's going to make borscht and I ask her what kind.

...okay, so these are all food items, but they are items that stand clearly in my mind as Mennonite. Another item is how few Mennonites smoke (at least in my experience). It is a distinctly bizzare and uncomfortable experience for me to see someone light up after church. Traditionally Mennonites have also been dry. My mum grew up in the Hanover district of Manitoba which is completely dry (at least, I think it still is). Some of these are related to their beliefs and others to where they came from in Europe, but they blend into a worldview that is retained long after leaving Europe and the national cultures there. So I am firmly of the view that denominations can have cultures or ethnicities.

[hive_king]

Wouldn't culturally be a better fit here than ethnicity? I was under the impression that ethnically has a bit more of a biologic base to it.

[Jayelle]

Wow. I had no idea there would be such a debate over ethnic Mennonites. It's just so normal here.
It is biological because, in the past (and still continues today to some extent), it was a close knit community that only would have children with each other, even after immigrating to North/South America.
There are certain last names associated with Mennonites, certain towns (especially in Manitoba and Saskatchewan) there are "Mennonite Towns" and there is a cultural heritage and language (Low German) that does not necessarily mean that one goes to a Mennonite church or goes to church at all, it means that one is ethnically Mennonite. There are people in my city who would say they are "Half-Mennonite" in the same way one might say they are "Half-Jewish".

[hive_king]

ah, ok. we don't have many mennonites around here, so i didn't know much abut that.

[Rei]

I still remember my grandpa's accent. Thick low-german just like so many others in their town. In fact, instead of learning French in school, my mum had to learn Low German (which she stoutly refused to do).

I get a magazine occasionally on a particular group of Mennonites. The magazine is called Preservings and it is really strange to read. It is a group of very seperate Mennonites who have a number of beliefs that I'm not familiar with, including more Godly colours (grey, black, white, and a certain shade of dingy blue), and they say that Low German is the most Godly language. I figure they must be getting that from the humility end of things, because that language is anything but pretty. (I get this magazine because a while ago they ran an article on my great-grandfather who was a bishop in the Mennonite Church and my family wanted to read it.)

[Qing_Jao]

I'm a Methodist, and I'm giving up reading fiction books.

I had heard of Lent, but didn't do anything for it until I married into Methodism.

[Sparrowhawk]

it was a close knit community that only would have children with each other, even after immigrating to North/South America.

We have a word for that in English, but I'm sure there are many words used to describe it in Canada. Although, I was under the impression that Quebec was where most of the inbreeding occured.

[hive_king]

I thought it was newfoundland.