Uranium

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Postby hive_king » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:38 am

fine. one man with a gun, or one man with a jelly doughnut. (assuming all else is equal).
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby mr_thebrain » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:43 am

the doughnut. i'm on a diet.
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Postby Boothby » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:23 pm

I've never seen Uranium, and so it doesn't really exist.
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Postby suminonA » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:51 am

It is your choice to believe that. But let me ask you, what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945?

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Postby Dr. Mobius » Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:20 am

Those were hydrogen atomic bombs, not uranium, suminonA.
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Postby suminonA » Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:35 am

Those were hydrogen atomic bombs, not uranium, suminonA.
Are you sure?

What is your source?

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Postby eriador » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:15 am

By the way, hydrogen bombs (thermonuclear weapons) use the fusion of hydrogen (technically deuterium) to produce the explositon (the same reaction that goes on in the sun). However, for this reaction to start you need immense temperatures, which are acheived with a small plutonium or uranium bomb.

Be sure to check your sources...

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Postby Dr. Mobius » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:55 pm

Yeah, I got the names switched around in my head.
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Postby wigginboy » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:30 pm

OK, many people in this thread have hit around and upon this idea, so I'm going to sum it up. Basically, God gave us all these things to do with what we please; many people have used the term 'free will.' We were given uranium, and fossil fuels, and anything you can think of that are used to destroy our world. God just wanted to see what we would do with them. When someone mentioned that God was giving us control of ourselves for a while, and is then going to retake command, I dont fully believe that. I believe that there are two people that are in control of our lives, God and ourselves. But God is only there as a guideline, as a railing to grab onto when we are slipping down the stairs. For the most part, we are in control of ourselves, the idea of 'free will.' And if some of us choose to do the wrong things with what we have been given, that's their choice. And I don't think God really has much of a say in that, lest he break his law of 'free will.' To use the chorus from a popular song by Rush, "You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice/ If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice/ You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill/ I will choose a path that's clear/ I will choose Free Will." I think that few lines basically sums up what i'm trying to say. God is there as a light in the dark, but its up to us to make the decisions that will help or hurt us in the end.

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Postby hive_king » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:27 pm

He made uranium to see what we'd do with it? That seems a bit like tossing a gun into a room full of toddlers and seeing if they shoot eachother.
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby anonshadow » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:33 am

Are we toddlers?

Toddlers cannot understand that, if you pick up a gun and fire it at your friend, your friend might die.

Are you claiming that adults cannot understand that? Do not have the capacity to understand that?



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Postby eriador » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:54 am

Well, given many people's belief of God as a supreme being, it seems like an apt analogy.

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Postby wigginboy » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:45 am

He made uranium to see what we'd do with it? That seems a bit like tossing a gun into a room full of toddlers and seeing if they shoot eachother.
Yes, he made it to see what we would do with it. Whether we would use it for the good that it can do, or whether we would discover other, more sinister uses for it. This is not exclusive to uranium, though, it applies to all things that we have at our disposal to use. Like water to convert energy, or rubies to concentrate light to make a beam capable of doing precise surgery on the human eye. He didnt give us these things for no reason, but he also didnt accord any specific reason to them. He gave us these things, along with their properties, to see how we would use them, and what good bad things came from their use.

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Postby anonshadow » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:29 pm

Well, given many people's belief of God as a supreme being, it seems like an apt analogy.
How so?

God being a supreme being doesn't make humans helpless and unable to comprehend what we are doing. We may not be as advanced as God, but that doesn't mean that we don't understand that if you shoot someone, they die.

Toddlers don't have the capacity to understand that.

Adults do.

I hate it when people use the analogy of throwing X dangerous weapon into a room full of toddlers, because to me, that's saying that human beings are not responsible for their actions because they cannot understand what doing them will cause--and that just simply is not the case.



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Postby eriador » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:28 pm

Well, you have a point, but before humans knew about the dangers of radioactivity, we acted like toddlers, killing ourselves and others with the radiation (case in point, Madame Curie). Just like a toddler, we eventually learned that radioactivity was dangerous. It seems like a great analogy to me.

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Postby anonshadow » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:19 pm

We learned because we made scientific discoveries. Toddlers learn because they get older and develop the biological functions that allow them to understand the consequences of their actions.

A toddler has no potential to learn a hell of a lot of things until the toddler gets older and develops the brain functioning that allows it to make the leap. The toddler doesn't even have the tools that allow him or her to connect the two.



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Postby hive_king » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:02 am

You know, the bible claims that man has "not the wisdom to guide his own step".
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby anonshadow » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:32 am

So a phrase in the Bible eliminates everything it says about personal responsibility?

If people can be punished for misdeeds--and they were--people have the ability to make responsible decisions.



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Postby lyons24000 » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:10 am

Hive_King, with you being an agnostic and everything, I have to say that this is just to answer your question the best way I know how. (This is from the perspective of the Judeo-Christian God).

When God created the universe and the earth, he did create Uranium with it. That is a given due to the fact that we have Uranium here on earth with us.

Now, when God created Adam and Eve, everything else was already finished. That means that we already had a rich supply of Uranium on hand. When God finished creating Adam and Eve, they were perfect human beings. Therefore, as time went on and they had more children, their children would be perfect. We would become technologically advanced and find good uses for the Uranium that God gave us.

Along came Satan the Devil, and with Satan, our fall into sin. From that moment on "every inclination of the thoughts of [man's] heart was only bad all the time." (Genesis 6:5) Also, mankind became seperated from God and the Devil became the ruler of the world.-John 12:31; 1 John 5:19

So, with the inclination of our thoughts being bad all of the time due to our imperfect flesh and the fact that Satan the Devil is the ruler of this world that is why it is not Jehovah's fault for creating Uranium but our own fault because we chose to use it in a way contrary to why God created it.

"But why doesn't God step in and stop us from using it the wrong way and destroy Satan the Devil now?" some people may ask.

Well, it's because of kindness.

"Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, . . . but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance."-1 Peter 3:9

That is why God has not stopped everything from happening that happens in our time. This is the most satisfying answer possible that does not paint God has hard-hearted or cruel. Take it or leave it.

EDIT: Spelling Errors
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Postby hive_king » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:43 pm

But he eventually will end everything. What makes any difference whether it happens tomorrow or a hundred years ago?


Also, when God made the Earth, he knew that mankind would fall. He knew that Satan would fall and corrupt mankind. Anything else would deny him Omniscience.
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby eriador » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:55 pm

So, in other words, God is a sadist?

(please, don't take offense, because none is meant)

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Postby hive_king » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:46 pm

My personal opinion: if there is a God, He isn't omnibenevolent. I don't know if I'd call Him a sadist, but not everything he does is exactly nice.
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby eriador » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:12 pm

I agree with you there, but what could explain God acting in such a way, nice sometimes, to some people, but at other times being mean.


BTW, the idea of God as a sadist was something I heard once, but didn't hold much store in. However, people who think that God is purely evil do have some points in their favor, leading me to agree with hive_king that God is not omnibenevolent.

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Postby hive_king » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:05 pm

What could explain you in such a way, eriador? You act nice sometimes to some people, but you're mean at other times.
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby eriador » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:12 pm

Everybody's like that more or less, aren't they?

I guess I kinda am too.

I never realized that about myself before, thanks.

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Postby vendor » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:47 pm

I don't claim to know what everything that god does means. We have limited understanding of the grand scheme of things. If god is omniscient, and cares for us, then I must believe that god will do what's best for us (you, everybody you know, the nation and the world). God doesn't just see us now. God sees the end as well as the beginning. Maybe god is omnibenevolent, but we just can't see it.

I don't believe god treats everybody the same, but then, does everybody respect god?

six million jews were murdered in WWII, now six billion people know of them. I don't know if that was god's intent, or what. It's just something I noticed.
...but paranoia is all I have!!

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Postby hive_king » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:09 am

Umm... I'm pretty sure that almost everyone knew of the Jews before WWII. There were just alot more to know of.

Vendor, you seem to be contridicting yourself. You say that God cares all of us, then you say God might treat people differently. Can you clarify?

Also, how do you know that God cares for you?
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby lyons24000 » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:25 am

God can do whatever he wants, Hive_King. That means he can choose not to know something. He may have chose not to know if Adam and Eve would fall into sin.

And in the OT, when God was "mean" as some people like to say, people had to die so their sins could be forgiven. So when God had thousands of people killed that was because they had sinned. It's kind of like a reversal. Thousands of people had to die for one sin. Now, that might not seem fair but we cannot judge God because of some accounts that are mentioned briefly and not expounded upon. Today, it's different. One person died for thousands of sins. That was Jesus Christ. The reason God seems to have different personalities in the two different Testaments is because the circumstances were different.

And, if you think about it, the only people who ever really died in the OT were the ones who were not repentant.
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Postby Jebus » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:42 pm

God would choose not to know something?

That makes my head hurt.

Can you explain to me why God might prefer not to know something?

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Postby eriador » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:15 pm

"God can decide to not know something"

Yeah, it works to make the end result nice, but why is there any reason that God would chose to do so, except to prove you right?

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Postby hive_king » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:34 pm

And in the OT, when God was "mean" as some people like to say, people had to die so their sins could be forgiven.
That's one sticking point with me. God makes up all these weird rules that really don't make alot of sense, like you have to kill a dove or a ram for him to forgive you for your transgressions. Why all the blood and the killing and all that? I mean, it doesn't really mean anything in of itself, unless there's true repentance behind it, which exists regardless of the dead animal, or the crucified carpenter. It seems silly, when you get right down to it, and hugely relying on the scapegoat system. And why did people have to die so their sins to be forgiven. Again, weird, silly, complicated, pointless rules.


And, if you think about it, the only people who ever really died in the OT were the ones who were not repentant.
that justifies it how?
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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Postby mr_thebrain » Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:47 am

I have issues with the old testiment. such as the fact that it was before written histories. in other words the OT was a bunch of tall tails handed down from generation to generation until one day someone was like "hey, i should totally write this in this stone block" but you know what, by that time there's going to be very little truth behind any of the words. think of it this way: have you ever played a game of telephone? that is to say line up a group of say 10-20 people in a straight line, and one person whispers something in the second person's ear, and they in turn whisper it into the next persons ear and so on. bu the time it gets to the end it's changed. anyway the point is the OT is nothing more than a tall tail. and if you want to explain all the sacrifices. just remember that back then sacrifices were made to all gods. it's bullshit to imagine that the god of our bible would ask for sacrifices and whatnot. but they would do it for every other god, why not this one too. except rather than just say "i wanna kill something and offer it to god" it's "oh... yeah, god asked me to kill this.. no no really. he was all 'who's your daddy.. kill your cows for me'"
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Postby Taalcon » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:57 am

That's one sticking point with me. God makes up all these weird rules that really don't make alot of sense, like you have to kill a dove or a ram for him to forgive you for your transgressions. Why all the blood and the killing and all that? I mean, it doesn't really mean anything in of itself, unless there's true repentance behind it, which exists regardless of the dead animal, or the crucified carpenter. It seems silly, when you get right down to it, and hugely relying on the scapegoat system. And why did people have to die so their sins to be forgiven. Again, weird, silly, complicated, pointless rules.
Have you ever truly desired to learn, and to understand why many people do not find this to be weird, silly, complicated, or pointless?

From the LDS point of view at least, the animal sacrifices of the Old Testament served three key purposes:

1) First and foremost, and a symbol/shadow/type of the Infinite Atonement that would be carried out by the Only Begotton Son of God. The blood of the animals themselves did not remit sin.

2)Obedience - showing you are willing to obey God even when all the details are not fully known.

3)the principle of Sacrifice - being willing to give up something of your own to aknowledge that all that we have comes from God.

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Postby hive_king » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:45 am

Taal, I'm pretty sure if you study the archeology, other semetic religions in the area were sacrificing to their gods before the Israelites, or at least roughly at the same time. Many other concepts from the jewish faith also show up in surrounding cultures, like a baby being found in a reed basket, some of them archeologically predating the estimated time period such events happened in the bible.
1) First and foremost, and a symbol/shadow/type of the Infinite Atonement that would be carried out by the Only Begotton Son of God. The blood of the animals themselves did not remit sin.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but i remember the bible (leviticus and dueteronomy) saying that the murdering of the animals DID remit sin, did wash it clean before the Lord. And please refresh me where the more ancient biblical characters (such as Noah, who sacrificed) knew about the coming Ransom Sacrifice?
2)Obedience - showing you are willing to obey God even when all the details are not fully known.
Again, what evidence is there given in the torah that they had any real idea of the Ransom Sacrifice? I get that concept nowhere reading the books, i get the impression that they believed, just as every other regional religion did, that by killing a lamb, you were showing God you were sorry.
3)the principle of Sacrifice - being willing to give up something of your own to aknowledge that all that we have comes from God.
That's just another aspect of obedience, as I see it. Which has nothing to do whether or not the person is truly repentant.

The entire bible is full of people and creatures suffering for things other people did. There seems to be no acountability.

Oh, I asked how Justice and Mercy can be absolute, any answer on that, I'm honestly curious on that theological point.
The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet him, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).


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