The American Flag

[Guest]

As I go through my day in and around small-town U.S.A., I continue to notice American flags being flown at half-staff all around the area. From business to private residences, there seems to be a great number of people who are either willfully ignorant of the rules regulating flag usage, or too lazy to go outside (and brave the cold) to hoist the flag to full-staff. The 30 day mourning period for former President Gerald Ford ended 2 weeks ago. It would seem to me that anyone deeming themselves patriotic enough to fly Old Glory outside their home or place of business ought to be patriotic enough to know the most basic of guidelines for its use. If these kinds of people are going to attach symbolic significance to this icon, perhaps they ought not to cheapen it by failing to even care enough to keep it flying properly.

Then again... why did I expect any better, right?

[Rei]

Mind, it seems like everyone and their dog flies a flag on your side of the line.

[VelvetElvis]

No one pleases you.

[Slim]

How long were flags flown half-mast for Reagan? Seems like they lasted a couple months also. I never knew there could be a limit to how long someone is allowed to mourn.

[eriador]

People mourned Reagan?

[lovesonia]

Does anyone know which comedian it was that said "He died again?! I thought he died like ten years ago" Or something to that effect. I'm not sure where I heard it... tv or radio... But it was pretty much like that. And it was a while ago that I heard it. *shrug* I gave it a search but didn't come up with anything. I am pretty much the worst web searching person on the planet, other than those that don't know how to turn on a computer.

[hive_king]

That's the beauty of living in urban california. I think there's a feeling here that we don't have to fly the flag, we already know we're patriotic.

[Mahatma]

To me, it's not so much about patriotism as it is about not confusing me. When I see a flag at half-mast, either I think, "Oh, it's for ___," or, "Who just died?"

[Dr. Mobius]

Mind, it seems like everyone and their dog flies a flag on your side of the line.

I think it's a law or something in this post 9/11 world. If you don't fly the flag, you're a terrorist.

[lovesonia]

I am 99.999998% sure that I've not 1) HAD a flag since I was like.... 8, living with my then-stepfather, as he was a cop. or 2) felt the need to have one. If I want to be patriotic, I'll, you know, support whatever it is that I want to support. Not put up a flag.

Really simple rules that everyone in possession of a flag should know but usually don't:

1. You don't keep it up over night or in the rain, etc.. DUH!
2. You don't let it touch the ground. EVER.
3. If it gets torn, faded, tattered or touches the ground - burn it and buy another one. Yeah yeah, they don't want you burning it. Blah blah. To burn it when it's not all it can be IS respect.
4. Know when to fly it half-mast and when not to. Observe those rules.

And, just a personal preference:
5. Don't put flags on the butt of your pants. I'm sorry, it looks weird and I always have to wonder why people would have the flag on their clothes if they were going to disrespect it by sitting on it. *shrug* Just me I suppose.

[Jayelle]

It's a piece of cloth. I've never seen what the big hairy deal is.

[Soara]

Rules about how to fly a flag is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of...


Can you imagine the police man who comes to your door and says, "I'm sorry ma'am, but you're under arrest. Your flag is touching the grass."

[lovesonia]

It's a piece of cloth. I've never seen what the big hairy deal is.

Respect for your country. THAT is the big hairy deal. If you're gonna fly the thing, do it right.

Rules about how to fly a flag is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of...

Can you imagine the police man who comes to your door and says, "I'm sorry ma'am, but you're under arrest. Your flag is touching the grass."

It is absolutely preposterous to think something like that would ever be even a teensy tiny bit feasible. Therefore, not funny.

If you have a loved one die that was in the military and you unfold the flag, you can't just fold it back up like it was. You have to get them to refold it and play the song and so forth. Respect.

I don't even have a flag but at least I would treat it properly if I had one. And if my kids want flags, they'll know how to treat them. There are rules about it for a reason. Buy them and burn them, if you want. Freedom of expression, whatever. I cannot stand that people have the gall to fly flags and not follow the rules about them, though. It's saying the exact opposite of what you want it to. Don't be stupid. Give a damn about the thing if you're gonna have it.

I also find it SO disconcerting that before September 11, 2001 there were a few flags up around my town and in towns I visited but afterward there were TONS. It takes a tragedy to get you people to be patriotic? That doesn't seem right to me. Sometimes I even wonder how many of them do it to seem cool to your friends or family. I mean, some people go to church to seem like Good Christians... It only seems logical that some people would be patriotic to be Good Americans.

*/rant*

P.s.: This is, in no way, meant to offend anyone or get them angry. If it does, I'm terribly sorry. Please forgive me.

[Jayelle]

I forgot to add at the end of my post up there:

It's also a piece of cloth that was likely made in China.

[mr_thebrain]

my flag is made in the USA. we have had a flag up since before i was born, and i will continue the tradition when i have a house of my own. jayelle, if you really don't know why the flag (ours being USA and yours being canadian) you should really go back to the third grade. the fact that my wife is canadian will probably mean having both flags flying. *shrug*

you know, rei, eri... whoa, crazy.

anyway, reagan's administration pretty much set up all of the economic success the united states had in the 90's... you know the success that clinton got the credit for? yeah, that was really from the reagan administration.

and ford was a pretty spectacular guy as well.

[Rei]

you know, rei, eri... whoa, crazy.

Not so much, no.

And I do respect the flag, but I've found that often people nearly worship the flag. And, to be honest, I've never quite managed to forget those Olympic games several years ago and I'm afraid that will probably always affect how I see American treatment of the flag.

My personal feelings on courteousy regarding the flag are as such:

Do not fly a tattered flag.
Do not step on, burn, or treat it in a probably damaging manner (this includes the flags of all other countries as well).
On major days, such as Rememberance day, or days when someone of great importance has died, fly it at half-mast.

While I think it's important to treat the flag with respect, we don't need to rewrite the Torah for it. It isn't God, nor is it divinely given.

[eriador]

anyway, reagan's administration pretty much set up all of the economic success the united states had in the 90's... you know the success that clinton got the credit for? yeah, that was really from the reagan administration.

Hee hee. *giggles*

Personally, I don't care. It's a piece of cloth. Big deal. I can respect my country without having to see a silly cloth symbol of it.

[hive_king]

brain, he may or may not have improved the economy (I disagree that it was him, and by your logic we should credit clinton with any improvement in our current economy), but what about all the other things he did?

Reagan pulled out of Lebanon, greatly adding to our current problems with terrorists.

Reagan was responsible for the Iran-Contra affair.

Reagan was also responsible for adding a huge defeceit that we're still paying off.

Reagan funded the Islamic Fundamentalists that became the Taliban.

Reagan also helped fund and prop up our old friend Sadaam.

Keep in mind this is only when he was president, I won't delve into how badly he fowled up my state of california in the long run, except to remind you that this is the same man who used the national guard against student protesters at Berkeley, and said of it, ""If it's to be a bloodbath, let it be now."

[Firegirl]

The flag is merely a symbol. Sure it is a piece of cloth or whatever it's on, but it's still just one symbol out of many for the U. S. The Supreme court has decided in the past that flag burning is a legal expression of free speech, thus the idea or concept of the flag somehow continues on undamaged even with the flag-burning.

About all the flags at half mast, it's fairly standard protocal for the flags to remain so for weeks or months for famous people or dead presidents. Though when I look at one now it is slightly disconcerting to see one and not remember that the mediocre President Ford passed away. As I think "who died?" and forget Ford.

[VelvetElvis]

I won't delve into how badly he fowled up my state of california in the long run

He put birds in California? That fiend!

[hive_king]

yeah, how dare he? We were duck free before he showed up.

[VelvetElvis]

Well duck him. Or not. God frowns on necrophilia.

[jotabe]

Personally, i am quite against symbols. Specially symbols that use music or flashing colors, because they do not need to be analyzed rationally, hence they are perfect to manipulate people through emotions.

This doesn't mean that i am not affected by them. Specially when they are well done: i have to acknowledge that many anthems in the world get to move me, and the best ones (that i know of) are the anthems of US, France and Soviet Union. But i give them credit the same way i give credit to good examples of propaganda.

[eriador]

Ditto jota, though I'm not so much against them as ambivalent.